HTML: global variables

MattH · August 13, 2003, 14:18

Is there a way to store color info (like rgb and hex) as global variables in html? I'm working on this website, and it's got maybe 10 or 20 thousand tables, most with the same bg color. The last thing I want to do is go through all of them and change the colors cause of one stupid mistake (and it's more convenient than global find/replace).

Asher · August 13, 2003, 14:20

HTML doesn't have variables. Period.

It's a markup language, not a programming language.

What you probably want is a scripting environment of some kind (PHP could do that no problem), or CSS somehow.

MattH · August 13, 2003, 14:28

For large sections, such as navbar and some text, I'm using php includes, but I was hoping there was an easier way to do it with something like css. (really wasn't clear above)

Asher · August 13, 2003, 14:31

If you're already using PHP, just use a PHP variable.

Then use "$color" everywhere and define it once at the top.

chequita guevara · August 13, 2003, 14:37

You can do it with CSS. Suppose (for some reason) you want all cells in bright red. Either in the head of your document, or better, in a external css file, write:

td {background-color: #ff0000}

All table cells in linked documents wil then be red. You can override indivudual cells with by using the CLASS attribute to link another style or using an inline style:

<td align="center" width="45" style="background-color: #ffff00">

MattH · August 13, 2003, 14:38

MattH · August 13, 2003, 14:42

I think I'll go with the php approach
I allready have a mile long css file, an all the tables are slightly different- don't want to go around with

Code:

td {blah: "" etc}
     .{}
     .{}
     .{}
     .{}

and then have to redefine class for each table.

Lets see how this works.

chequita guevara · August 13, 2003, 14:43

You can do the same thing for any element, it doesn't have to just be TD.

Ten to twenty thousand tables. Man, and I thought my work was hard.

MattH · August 13, 2003, 14:47

I know some css... enough to define styles

Well, maybe it's not exactly 20,000, but who's counting?

chequita guevara · August 13, 2003, 14:52

CSS is bloody simple.
http://archive.devx.com/projectcool/...mic/index.html

On the one hand, if you're more comfortable with PHP, go with it. On the other hand, you do need to keep in mind future developers. My current task is ripping out a bunch of brilliant JavaScript that no one here at the company can understand. It functions very well, but since we can't understand it (it's extremly complex and well over 1200 lines), we can't modify it. It's been around for three years, and none of the developers here was here when it was written.

MattH · August 13, 2003, 14:55

No, no... I do know CSS... And I don't know how I've lived without it. The o'reilley book is right behind me.

chequita guevara · August 13, 2003, 14:56

Mea culpa, read too quickly.

chequita guevara · August 13, 2003, 14:58

Alternatively, you could create variables using JavaScript.

Just giving you options.

Asher · August 13, 2003, 15:07

1,200 lines of JavaScript is a challenge?

chequita guevara · August 13, 2003, 15:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
1,200 lines of JavaScript is a challenge?

I said at least. We really don't know how long it was, because it was all wrapped up into one long line. 1200 was where I got to before I was told to drop it.

Go here: http://www.acuvue.com/

Those twelve hundred+ lines of code control the buttons in the left side navbar. A couple rollovers, and a flyout menu? I could (and will) do the same with about 50 lines of code.

Hot Mustard · August 13, 2003, 17:42

Did you even do a web search on that old menu system? I just found where it came from in a few seconds.

AllWebMenus

MattH · August 13, 2003, 17:51

WTF????? Crazy menu! Run!

I'm using the menu system from milonic.com/menu... super easy.
Free, or $40 for a corporation.

Urban Ranger · August 14, 2003, 03:45

Quote:

Originally posted by MattH
Is there a way to store color info (like rgb and hex) as global variables in html? I'm working on this website, and it's got maybe 10 or 20 thousand tables, most with the same bg color.

Isn't doing website layout with tables a bit behind the times?

MattH · August 14, 2003, 09:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Isn't doing website layout with tables a bit behind the times?

I'll forgive you

Don't see what's wrong with them, they don't look as dorky as most.

chequita guevara · August 14, 2003, 10:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Isn't doing website layout with tables a bit behind the times?

That's what I tell them every week. I've even given my boss the interview from DevNet with the PL from ESPN on why they went to an all CSS design. I've got their attention.

Here's the problem, our buyers (eye doctors) buy many thousands of dollars worth of product at a time. Regular folks have to buy them from eye doctors, so our technical requirements mean we need to support even the 2% of 1% (.0002) of users who still access our site with Netscape Nav 4 for Mac (which doesn't support layers or CSS). If those 5,000 people buy $1,000 worth of product, well, that's a half million dollars.

Of course, we need to break the numbers down further, and find out how many of those people are access the professional side of the site.

But whereas they would reject my arguments quickly before, they are now listening, especially after I showed them the ESPN site and how they were handling old users. Plus I mentioned we can migrate slowly and prepare people for the change ahead of time.

chequita guevara · August 14, 2003, 10:25

Quote:

Originally posted by dejon

Did you even do a web search on that old menu system? I just found where it came from in a few seconds.

AllWebMenus

And what, I'm just supposed to convince my bosses to purchase this program because the design firm that created this site two+ years ago had a copy? It swats flies with a sledgehammer and we've been looking for a reason to get rid of it. I can replicate the same functionality with much less effort.

And yes, I googled the name of the product. I've been writing mouseOvers for seven years, and this is the most useless product I've ever seen.

Urban Ranger · August 14, 2003, 10:36

Quote:

Originally posted by MattH

I'll forgive you

Don't see what's wrong with them, they don't look as dorky as most.

I have been doing websites since 1996, when there weren't any WYSIWYG editors, CSS wasn't conceived, and HTML 3.2 was the best thing there was. So I think I know a few things about websites here and there

There are a few problems with tables.

1. Browsers don't render them the same way, particularly nested tables, which is something you will have to use if you do layouts with tables.

2. Complicated tables are rendered slowly.

3. They are hell to edit.

In the bad old days when there was nothing else, one gotta do what one gotta do. But why use them for layout now?

Urban Ranger · August 14, 2003, 10:39

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Here's the problem, our buyers (eye doctors) buy many thousands of dollars worth of product at a time. Regular folks have to buy them from eye doctors, so our technical requirements mean we need to support even the 2% of 1% (.0002) of users who still access our site with Netscape Nav 4 for Mac (which doesn't support layers or CSS). If those 5,000 people buy $1,000 worth of product, well, that's a half million dollars.

That would be a problem.

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
But whereas they would reject my arguments quickly before, they are now listening, especially after I showed them the ESPN site and how they were handling old users. Plus I mentioned we can migrate slowly and prepare people for the change ahead of time.

Excellent, at least you are getting somewhere.

chequita guevara · August 14, 2003, 10:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That would be a problem.

If it were a small number of users, I was prepared to go out to their places and upgrade the browser for them for free, just so I could get rid of this issue.

One thing at a time. First I'm getting all our sites WCAG Priority 1 compliant. I'm working on Taiwan right now and will be moving on to Hong Kong soon. Working in a language you don't know is hard. Working in another alphabet is damn near impossible. And then the Taiwanese have to go and use tradiational Chinese while Hong Kong uses simplified (so I can't just copy the modifications to one country to another). You'd think being a former Brit colony English would be more prevalent there. Ah well, right now it's the East Asians keeping me employed so I won't complain too loudly.

Urban Ranger · August 14, 2003, 10:54

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
And then the Taiwanese have to go and use tradiational Chinese while Hong Kong uses simplified (so I can't just copy the modifications to one country to another). You'd think being a former Brit colony English would be more prevalent there.

Hm, no. You could have asked me. Both Hong Kong and Taiwan use the traditional Chinese characters. In fact, most Hong Kong people cannot read simplified Chinese [yeah, yeah, I know]. We also use English, yes, but 95% (at least) of the population sucks in English. Even English teachers fail qualifying exams

What is "WCAG Priority 1 compliant?"

chequita guevara · August 14, 2003, 11:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Hm, no. You could have asked me. Both Hong Kong and Taiwan use the traditional Chinese characters. In fact, most Hong Kong people cannot read simplified Chinese [yeah, yeah, I know]. We also use English, yes, but 95% (at least) of the population sucks in English. Even English teachers fail qualifying exams

Really? They want me to use simplified.

I considered asking you, but I felt it was unprofessional to have you help when I couldn't bill for your time. Plus, it's up to the Hong Kong department to tell me what to use. I will, however, ask for clarification.

Quote:

What is "WCAG Priority 1 compliant?"

Do you know what US 508 regulations are? Almost the same thing. Make sure all images have appropriate alt-text, that all information can be accessed by any users, by they blind, deaf, motor impared or even congnatively disabled (the last one is toughest cuz it means butting heads with marketting and trying to get them to use simpler language).

Hot Mustard · August 14, 2003, 11:23

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

And what, I'm just supposed to convince my bosses to purchase this program because the design firm that created this site two+ years ago had a copy? It swats flies with a sledgehammer and we've been looking for a reason to get rid of it. I can replicate the same functionality with much less effort.

And yes, I googled the name of the product. I've been writing mouseOvers for seven years, and this is the most useless product I've ever seen.

Indeed, for your needs it looks like quite a bit of excessive functionality and overhead. I would replace it too.

I only pointed it out because your prior posts seemed to indicate a lack of knowledge about the menu system or how it works - when the makers of it were easily discoverable, and should have documentation on it. (Maybe next time I won't try to help.

)

Urban Ranger · August 14, 2003, 11:41

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Really? They want me to use simplified.

What? What utter boobs! The only reason if they do that is they want to do the website for Mainland China.

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I considered asking you, but I felt it was unprofessional to have you help when I couldn't bill for your time.

Pah. Lots of people asked tech questions and those who answered never got paid anyway.

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Plus, it's up to the Hong Kong department to tell me what to use. I will, however, ask for clarification.

This is a Hong Kong government website. Press the "Chinese" button (red button with yellow characters, top left), and see for yourself whether that is traditional or simplified Chinese. I hope you can tell

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Do you know what US 508 regulations are? Almost the same thing. Make sure all images have appropriate alt-text, that all information can be accessed by any users, by they blind, deaf, motor impared or even congnatively disabled (the last one is toughest cuz it means butting heads with marketting and trying to get them to use simpler language).

Oh that. Looks reasonable, though one wonders how many blind people (deaf people aren't really impaired here) surf websites. So far, I have seen only one, who happens to be the head of the local Oxfam.

chequita guevara · August 14, 2003, 14:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Oh that. Looks reasonable, though one wonders how many blind people (deaf people aren't really impaired here) surf websites. So far, I have seen only one, who happens to be the head of the local Oxfam.

The real question you should be asking yourself is how many blind people need contact lenses?

Seriously, though, all of Johnson & Johnson's websites need to be accessible, so despite the fact that it doesn't seem to make sense at first glance . . . on top of that, most contact lens users do have some sort of vision problem. There are actually good reasons to do it, but it's time for me to leave.

Urban Ranger · August 15, 2003, 00:47

Got a better offer already?