Magic: the Gathering goes hybrid fantasy! End of the world as we knew it?

Mr. President · August 17, 2003, 03:05

A Peruvian website has obtained (no doubt from mtgnews or another spoon-fed "rumor" site) artwork from the upcoming Mirrodin expansion.

http://www.afn.org/~afn50094/ilustraciones.html

The tone is decidedly science fiction-y. The official Wizards of the Coasts boards are in uproar, predicting (yet again) the death of Magic: the Gathering.

Now I'm no expert, but I think the new art looks super-cool. And I also question how people could accept Anne McCaffrey's Dragons of Pern and not accept hybrid fantasy in Magic.

Panda · August 17, 2003, 05:48

I see Icy Manipulator is back ... and I agree: the artwork does look mostly good

Urban Ranger · August 17, 2003, 07:19

Yeah, do you get planeswalkers in Dragonriders of Pern? Eh, do you?

FrustratedPoet · August 17, 2003, 07:42

Magic fans are so conservative. The best thing about the game is how the rules are constantly changing and updating to keep it fresh, and yet any time something is changed the fans predict doom and gloom for the game.

FrustratedPoet · August 17, 2003, 07:46

Besides, they're probably fakes anyway.

Urban Ranger · August 17, 2003, 11:42

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
The best thing about the game is how the rules are constantly changing and updating to keep it fresh

That's why you need a team of lawyers to figure things out

Nikolai · August 17, 2003, 12:21

End of the world? Doubt it. Especially since I hardly know what it's all about.

Is it this card thing?

Richard Bruns · August 17, 2003, 12:58

None of that art looks especially sci-fi to me. The Magic game has had similiar stuff since way back in the beginning, especially in the Antiquities expansion, the one with all the artifacts.

And it does look pretty cool.

MattH · August 17, 2003, 13:57

Platinum Angel- looks nearly unglued

Victor Galis · August 17, 2003, 15:08

This game became crap around Mirage if not sooner.

Verto · August 17, 2003, 23:19

This game was, is, and always will be witchcraft!

zorbop · August 18, 2003, 02:36

for 8th edition they are changing the card face.
fortunately, the cards back is not changed.
look at this:

Mr. President · August 18, 2003, 06:48

I have some of the new-face cards, and my verdict is definitely

.

Quote:

Platinum Angel- looks nearly unglued

Have you heard about what her ability allegedly is?

DrSpike · August 18, 2003, 06:53

So if you have spent loads of cash on cards are they suddenly worthless?

Jamski · August 18, 2003, 07:09

I wouldn't be surprised, the cards are from the same company (Wizards of the Coast) that hold the Dungeons and Dragons franchise, and they're always bringing out new editions, meaning one has to buy all the new books (books, not just book) every year or so. Of course characters created in the old system are obselete. I wouldn't be surprised if they're appying the same marketing stratagy to the M:TG cards too.
But WotC are not alone... Games Workshop, the international board and war games company has a policy of regular new rule editions, requiring the customer to purchase not only the new rule sest, but whole new lead figure armies. Of course, people do.
At least people are getting wise to it slowly. There are clubs which play only with old rule sets, and how many people rushed out to buy Windows XP and de-installed 98 or 2000? This shows there is some hope for the endless update money grabbing.

-Jam

zorbop · August 18, 2003, 16:08

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
So if you have spent loads of cash on cards are they suddenly worthless?

no. you can still use the old cards, since the back remains the same. this, of course, probobly won't apply to tournaments.

SnowFire · August 18, 2003, 16:51

Um... guys. WotC is not suicidally stupid. They knew that the old-guard would be pissed at any change anyway; do you think they would actually invalidate all the old cards to give a REAL reason? People would leave Magic in droves. It's a long standing rule in tournaments as well as casual play that as long as a card is legal, you can use any edition of it. So in other words, it doesn't matter if you use a Shivan Dragon from the Beta printing, 4th edition, 7th edition, or an 8th edition one with the new card face. Frankly, most people try and play with the oldest cards possible in tournaments already, to show off how long they've been playing (or how much $$ they have).

MattH · August 18, 2003, 17:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. President
I have some of the new-face cards, and my verdict is definitely

.

Have you heard about what her ability allegedly is?

Well, on the site with the artwork, it said "You may not win the game, your opponents may not lose" or some combo of them.

FrustratedPoet · August 18, 2003, 17:54

Wow, what a dumbass card that is then.

MattH · August 18, 2003, 17:54

Sorry- it actually reads

Quote:

You may not lose the game.
Your opponents may not win
the game.

Mr. President · August 18, 2003, 23:41

I just don't know if it can be true.

If it is, every tournament (especially Type 1, where you could cast her on the first turn with a favorable draw) deck is going to get one. Probably two or three.

On the sci-fi topic, some earlier cards with almost science-fictiony art are

Dragon Engine

http://www.essentialmagic.com/cards/...d.asp?ID=15412

Umbilicus

http://www.essentialmagic.com/cards/...rd.asp?ID=8810

Power Armor

http://www.essentialmagic.com/cards/...d.asp?ID=23222

Urza's Rage

http://www.essentialmagic.com/cards/...d.asp?ID=23087

Stratadon

http://www.essentialmagic.com/cards/...d.asp?ID=25869

So there's certainly a precedent.

SnowFire · August 19, 2003, 01:46

Nah, I highly doubt that. Simply put, Platinum Angel (I think that's the name I read) doesn't win you the game in Type I, at least not very fast. And there's loads more artifact removal running around Type I, anyway. There are other combos that actively win you the game, so why not use those? Now, how broken that ability is really depends on casting cost. For 4 mana, it's broken. 6 mana would make it awesome, but beatable. 8 mana is eminently balanced.

Anyway, to beat Platinum Angel, you merely have to have one of the following:
-Any kind of bounce, used once you've "won" the game
-Any kind of artifact removal
-A counter ready when it's cast
-Any kind of targeted creature removal, or proper untargeted removal (Wrath of God, Chainer's Edict when you've killed his other creatures, etc.).
-Kill them before they can draw/cast it. With the slower mana acceleration in Type II, that may be easier than you think.

More interesting will be the rules issues. I'm guessing Platinum Angel's ability will always win, but I'm not sure if that makes sense with the whole timestamp stuff. If you cast Platinum Angel, then I cast Test of Endurance at 100 life, shouldn't the later Test's "you win" overwrite "can't win?" Probably not, but oh well.

DinoDoc · August 19, 2003, 09:34

How can you have an artifact set and not be science fiction-y?

Urban Ranger · August 19, 2003, 11:33

Quote:

Originally posted by SnowFire
Anyway, to beat Platinum Angel, you merely have to have one of the following:
-Any kind of bounce, used once you've "won" the game
-Any kind of artifact removal
-A counter ready when it's cast
-Any kind of targeted creature removal, or proper untargeted removal (Wrath of God, Chainer's Edict when you've killed his other creatures, etc.).
-Kill them before they can draw/cast it. With the slower mana acceleration in Type II, that may be easier than you think.

You forgot Control Magic and Steal Artifacrt

What happens if both sides got it out?

Urban Ranger · August 19, 2003, 11:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski
At least people are getting wise to it slowly. There are clubs which play only with old rule sets, and how many people rushed out to buy Windows XP and de-installed 98 or 2000? This shows there is some hope for the endless update money grabbing.

You sound pretty angry.

Welcome to the club.

Panda · August 19, 2003, 13:45

Quote:

More interesting will be the rules issues. I'm guessing Platinum Angel's ability will always win, but I'm not sure if that makes sense with the whole timestamp stuff. If you cast Platinum Angel, then I cast Test of Endurance at 100 life, shouldn't the later Test's "you win" overwrite "can't win?" Probably not, but oh well.

I'm guessing that's why they worded the platinum angel both ways, to stop your opponent winning from an alternative win condition. Although I agree this does fly in the face of the rules: you have 0 life, but can't lose; you have no cards to draw when you should, but you don't lose; you have 10 poison counters, but can't lose; your opponent has Battle of Wits (or similar) but can't win. And all because of the Golden Rule:

103.1 The Magic Golden Rule: Whenever a card's text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. If an instruction requires taking an impossible action, it's ignored.

103.2 When one effect says something can happen and another says it can't, the "can't" effect wins.

Urban Ranger · August 19, 2003, 22:18

That's why the game struck me like a strange version of Cosmic Encounter, where rules are made to be broken by "powers," and power conflicts kept stacking up.

Oh, of course, the ever increasing number of expansion sets and introduction of new rules.

Mr. President · August 19, 2003, 23:33

That's why you make house rules.

My sister and I have like a dozen that directly contradict the offical rules.

Although I do agree that there are too many expansions.

Does anyone think Icy Manipulator is really coming back for Mirrodin?

I've also heard that Ornithopter and Tetravus may be reprinted.

Panda · August 20, 2003, 15:01

Quote:

Does anyone think Icy Manipulator is really coming back for Mirrodin?

Well your Peruvian sourced artwork would indicate that, but www.mtgnews.com has not listed this under its partial spoiler (which does however contain "Terror"). Also "Atog" and "Shatter" are back.

Ben Kenobi · August 20, 2003, 15:15

Quote:

most people try and play with the oldest cards possible in tournaments already, to show off how long they've been playing

I would say the latter. I always admired those who played with older stuff than I had because it usually meant that those players had played for quite some time.

As for the Platinum Angel, I wonder how that would work with the cards that force you to pay a cumulative upkeep in life? You could use them for as long as you want.