upgrade units in an army?

Tolwyn · August 19, 2003, 14:38

How do i upgrade my units inside an army. The usual U or shift-U don't work. And how do I unload units from an army

gunkulator · August 19, 2003, 14:46

AFAIK, neither can be done.

vmxa1 · August 19, 2003, 15:07

No can do. No upgrades if in an army. Can't unload either. Well there was a hole for a time, but it was closed. I forget the patch that fix the ability to unload.

David Murray · August 19, 2003, 21:03

One of Civ3's least sensible 'gameplay' decisions, IMHO. I once made some armies that had three marines and an infantry each, only to realize that the inclusion of the infantry also makes the army unable to carry out amphibious assaults. As for not being able to upgrade units in armies, well - that is complete and utter nonsense.

cnich29 · August 19, 2003, 22:43

Armies can upgrade themselves through victory in battle. Not much, but it helps.

Rhothaerill · August 19, 2003, 23:54

Quote:

Originally posted by cnich29
Armies can upgrade themselves through victory in battle. Not much, but it helps.

I believe the original poster was talking about the upgrade paths (for example: swordsmen to mounted infantry). Using the upgrade paths is what can't be done. Once you stick a few swordsmen into an army those are what will be in that army for the rest of it's life (barring adding an extra unit with the Pentagon). The swordsmen in that army can't be upgraded to mounted infantry.

The Mad Monk · August 19, 2003, 23:59

What happens if you give them the ability to unload in the editor?

Rhothaerill · August 20, 2003, 00:09

Quote:

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
What happens if you give them the ability to unload in the editor?

I tried that a while back and it didn't work. Maybe I just did it wrong though.

Lord_Davinator · August 20, 2003, 01:10

I don't think it can be done.... dunno why though... creativity and a bit of intelligence as always lacking in people who can only think in terms of 0s and 1s... don't even bother using armies anymore... useless utterly useless

vmxa1 · August 20, 2003, 02:00

They can get promotions, not upgrades. The reason it was done this was was it had been determined to be unbalancing. Making Armies too powerful. When you get to the limit for armies, I will scrap the obsolete ones to build a new one.

MrWhereItsAt · August 20, 2003, 02:09

If you have armies and build the Military Academy, you can then add a 4th unit to each army you have. That is as close as you can get to changing an army.

bongo · August 20, 2003, 03:12

No, adding a fourth unit in an army can be done after you build the pentagon small wonder(which comes available when you have 4 or more armies). Military Academy allows you to build armies in a city without using a leader.

Armies are not useless at all. Actually they are very strong, so strong that allowing you to upgrade or remove units was deemed overpowering.

Lord_Davinator · August 22, 2003, 23:19

I dunno how you use armies but wasting great leaders on them is a waste... but you need to waste one to get those small wonders... furterh thier use as an offensive unit is non existent... an army of tanks or three tanks? I'd go for 3 tanks for the extra mobility and the increase in the number of times I can attack... bloody army allows you one attack. Best use of an army would be in defence... but then again... a defensive army of spearmen ain't gona help much when you're up against even cavalary...

vmxa1 · August 23, 2003, 00:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord_Davinator
I dunno how you use armies but wasting great leaders on them is a waste... but you need to waste one to get those small wonders... furterh thier use as an offensive unit is non existent... an army of tanks or three tanks? I'd go for 3 tanks for the extra mobility and the increase in the number of times I can attack... bloody army allows you one attack. Best use of an army would be in defence... but then again... a defensive army of spearmen ain't gona help much when you're up against even cavalary...

Well actually I have used an army with only 1 move units to bust a city many times. They work very well early in the game. They can quell cities all through the game. Late, with RR I send them to sit on newly captured metros. No flips. Drop one or two old Calv armies in with them and the AI wil rarely even counter attack them and the city is not going to flip.
I am not sure what all the fuss is about wonders. At emperor, I will get my one or two ancient ones and when I get to industrial age, I will likely get all of them or most anyway. I will not need leaders to rush wonder after steam very often. I will do it at times, but I can build them faster than the AI.
As to tank or any mobile units in armies they have the same movement as they did when not in an army as long as all are the same type. Armies of calv can make multiple attacks.
The AI is not going to be attacking that army of spearmen with a calv unit. I won't say never, but I have yet to see it. They are afraid of armies of any type, at any time.
I tell you this if you send three tanks to attack a metro with even a mech infantry unit in it, you stand a good chance of losing three tanks. If I attack it with an tank army, I will probably kill that unit.

Oerdin · August 23, 2003, 00:54

Can't be done.

vmxa1 · August 23, 2003, 00:59

BTW I don;t think any one that is familar with CivIII will make an army of three spearmen. It will have one spear and maybe two swords. Something like that and will rip those pikes apart. I like to stick units in the army that have already created a leader. Now I have 5 HP units in the army. Want to try to take that down in a city fortified with any units around at the time. Forget Calvs they are not going to be getting to my ancient army. By the time calvs are in the game, it will only be used to sit on captured cities that are safe from counter attacks.

Catt · August 23, 2003, 14:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord_Davinator
I dunno how you use armies but wasting great leaders on them is a waste... but you need to waste one to get those small wonders... furterh thier use as an offensive unit is non existent... an army of tanks or three tanks? I'd go for 3 tanks for the extra mobility and the increase in the number of times I can attack... bloody army allows you one attack. Best use of an army would be in defence... but then again... a defensive army of spearmen ain't gona help much when you're up against even cavalary...

Armies allow as many attacks as movement points. An army of 3 cavalry can attack 3 times per turn.

If you're used to getting armies only at the time of tanks, then they may seem a lot less useful. But an army of swordsmen in the ancient age, or knights in the early middle age, is an extraordinarily powerful weapon. Even an army of two swords will usually take anything it approaches (preserving a space in the army for a later unit). Add a pike or a musket later and that two-sword army is still mean.

Throwing three spears into an early army is an indictment of the player's skill or creativity more than it is the utility of armies.

Catt

Lord_Davinator · August 24, 2003, 00:55

the 3 spearmen are an example... kinda pointless army... none the less your claim that a city won't flip cuz you have an army in it is I guess valid... I've never had that happen to an army... and your claim that they attack 3 times in one turn is more based on the number of units you have in the army... but it still makes no sense to leave 3 units in one stack, attack a city a couple of times and if you get attacked... well chances are you loose your army... In the current game I'm playing... I had 3 cavalary in one army... and they got knocked out by 2... while in a city... at full health... which was one of the reasons I've had rather strong feelings against armies... plus... they take forever to heal...

cheers!

vmxa1 · August 24, 2003, 02:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord_Davinator
the 3 spearmen are an example... kinda pointless army... none the less your claim that a city won't flip cuz you have an army in it is I guess valid... I've never had that happen to an army... and your claim that they attack 3 times in one turn is more based on the number of units you have in the army... but it still makes no sense to leave 3 units in one stack, attack a city a couple of times and if you get attacked... well chances are you loose your army... In the current game I'm playing... I had 3 cavalary in one army... and they got knocked out by 2... while in a city... at full health... which was one of the reasons I've had rather strong feelings against armies... plus... they take forever to heal...

cheers!

I do not mean to say that the city will never flip. Only that I have not had one flip under those conditions. And I capture a lot of cities every game.

Armies attacking three times is not a function of the number of units, so much as it is the number of moves.
I mean armies will normally have at least three units, but if they have 4, they can not attack four times. If the units are 1 move units, they can not attack 3 times.

You are correct they do not heal as fast as they would if they were not in the army and had a barracks. You can't have everything.

That armies can be defeated is a fact. It is just harder to beat them, all things being equal. I do not want to have to depend on my 3 unit army of calv to defend against 2 MA's. I would not want three calv to defend against them either. If 2 units of calvs attack that army, they will nearly always be defeated. The bad news is that those two units could never take the city in that turn if those three units were not in an army. Again, you can not have everything. They are not invincible, but are very useful, that is all I am saying. Give them to me and I will hurt somebody. Anyway, I will not have that lone army defending by itself, under conditions where it may be attacked by any force that may beat it. That would be bad planning on my part. When I start taking cities, they are not taken back, period. If there was any chance of that I would raze it.

Theseus · August 24, 2003, 10:04

Armies are essential to my game. Aggressive IC actions much more likely to see success with them.

But you want to be smart in how you use them. For instance, in my replay of AU 208, I have decimated India, but am under constant attack from a very advanced Babylon (i.e., they have Infantry while I am still researching Electricity).

3xRifles Armies are at key defensive points. 3xCav Armies are my nutcrackers.

I have never built a 3xSpear Army, and never would.

Sorry to be late jumping into this discussion, but vxma1 has done a very fine job defending Armies (3xMI, I'd say

).

vmxa1 · August 24, 2003, 13:23

I did not talk about some of the more unusal armies that can be used such as Rifles. In a specail game, such as AU208, it may be useful to build such an army.
I know I had a lot of armies in that game as once you hit the lands of India you could face a lot of attackers.
I think I had as many as 4 civs send troops to attack the captured cities.
It is not common to even put a single spear in an army. I would wait for a pike, I would use swoeds instead. The few times I used a spear was because I did not have any other unit at hand at the time.

David Murray · August 24, 2003, 13:30

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1

I do not mean to say that the city will never flip. Only that I have not had one flip under those conditions. And I capture a lot of cities every game.

I used to think that cities with armies in them would never flip because it had never happened to me. However I can verify, from personal and painful experience, that cities can indeed flip with an entire army (or two) inside of them. I guess nothing is safe from the 'concerned citizen' armed with shotgun and healthy distrust of government.

Panag · August 24, 2003, 14:04

hi ,

disband the army in the city you are building a new one , .....

or disband it in a far away city for a factory or so , ......

have a nice day