neon genesis evangelion

Jon Miller · August 21, 2003, 22:15

ok, just started watching this

am on episode 14

I know that there are some people who are really really into it here

could you link me info on the mysticism used (I know that it is judaic or related to that)

Jon Miller

Nubclear · August 21, 2003, 22:17

Not this cartoon again

Jon Miller · August 21, 2003, 22:20

I don't go insane over things

the only Anime I have boughten was FCLC

my freinds are the ones who are interested in the mysticism

Jon Miller

Nubclear · August 21, 2003, 22:22

Jon, you brought up the subject. Therefore you should be banned, tied to a wall, and flogged a thousand times.

:shame;

monolith94 · August 21, 2003, 22:24

The mysticism is not really what the show is all about in my opinion... Just relax and enjoy the story...

And what a cool story it is. Pen Pen!!! Do you like it so far?

Jon Miller · August 21, 2003, 22:25

we haven't had a thread on this for quite a while

and it wasn't a CG thread, so it goes here

Jon Miller

Spiffor · August 21, 2003, 22:29

I have a terrific link about this, but sadly, most important parts aren't translated in English and are in French. Here you go anyways:
http://namida.com/evangelion/e/frame.html

Jon Miller · August 21, 2003, 22:34

I do like it

some characters and the like are sometimes annoying, but the imagery and scenes and all are good

like blue gender (seems to have) has a decent story, but I can't stand to watch it (I have watched part of 4 episodes)

Jon Miller

DanS · August 21, 2003, 23:27

Quote:

Not this cartoon again

Don't be such a hater, dude.

DRoseDARs · August 22, 2003, 00:00

Can someone put aside all the jibber-jabber and explain the plot of this cartoon? I tried the link provided by Spiffor, but...

I really hate that about any series, cartoon or otherwise: never explaining a clear plot/purpose for the show on its promotional site or worse fansites whose content consists of pretty pictures and a bunch of garbled information.

Kassiopeia · August 22, 2003, 00:07

Jon, note that Spiffor's link is chock full of spoilers. Those should be avoided at all costs when in the middle of Evangelion...

I have to add also that the site behind that link has some common errors Eva enthusiasts have a tendency to make. Like with LCL (nowhere is "Link Connected Liquid" officially confirmed). Hell, misinformation is so abundant on Eva that finding facts can be an impossible exercise.

Quote:

am on episode 14

Finish the series and watch The End of Evangelion first, then come back to us. Most of the judaistic elements, for instance, aren't emphasised until the final episodes and EoE. The most you've seen so far have been a handful of (real) angel names and a cross here and there.

I agree with monolith, though. It's about the characters, not the symbols. It's unlikely the makers studied the backgrounds of the stuff they used that much, so most things they put in were not conscious decisions. They did know their angel names: Sandalphon, for example, is the angel of childbirth.

The elements of mysticism are a cool addition, though, and are fun to think over if you're that kind of a person.

Kassiopeia · August 22, 2003, 00:10

Quote:

Can someone put aside all the jibber-jabber and explain the plot of this cartoon?

There's a challenge. You mean the 26 eps of the TV series or with EoE added? With the latter it'd be somewhat simpler. Or more complicated.

I could give it a shot right now but I have to leave for school.

DRoseDARs · August 22, 2003, 00:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Kassiopeia

There's a challenge.

Somehow, I knew that would be the FIRST response...

Kassiopeia · August 22, 2003, 00:26

It's an interesting opportunity. I've written about many of the things in Evangelion, like the duality stuff in EoE, but I've never actually tried to condense the story in a sense-making manner.

The important question here is, have you seen EoE? Somehow I suspect you haven't, as it clears things up a great deal. If you've finished with eps 25 and 26, I can relate to your confusion.

Jon Miller · August 22, 2003, 00:26

by this time tomorrow I expect I will be up to episode 24, or done with the series, or done with the series and the movie

I have watched 27 episodes of anime the last two days (mostly NGE and Vampire Princess Muyi)

Jon Miller

Jon Miller · August 22, 2003, 00:27

I was thinking of just quiting at 24

Jon Miller

Kassiopeia · August 22, 2003, 00:34

Quote:

I was thinking of just quiting at 24

A popular way of watching Evangelion is watching eps 1 - 24 first, then The End of Evangelion, and then episodes 25 and 26. Many say the whole thing makes more sense that way. I myself watched it in sequence 1 - 26 and then EoE, because I didn't have EoE at the time. Don't leave anything out, though. Except Death and Rebirth. Death is only a mish-mash rehash of eps 1 - 24 and the first portion of EoE, as you probably already know. The only worthwhile things in Death are the Director's Cut clips.

Jon Miller · August 22, 2003, 00:39

I am not sure if my freind has EoE

I know he has the 26 episodes

Jon Miller

monolith94 · August 22, 2003, 01:17

Go ahead and watch episodes 25+26. Even if you are confused, they're still worthwhile viewing. I personally didn't think they were THAT confusing...

"Can someone put aside all the jibber-jabber and explain the plot of this cartoon?"

Evangelion is the story of a government agency working in a post-apocalyptic world, defending themselves against mysterious invasionary forces known as 'angels'. They fight them with "Evangelions", which are piloted by children, and are based on the design of the Angels. That's basically it.

SnowFire · August 22, 2003, 01:22

Yeah, what kass said. Finish the series first, you're not at the really blatant stuff. And don't expect TOO much to make sense; Anno was in an asylum for awhile when he was reading all this random mysticism before putting it into a blender and making Eva. Do watch it with friends to talk with, though, to help sort through things.

Episodes 25 & 26 are dispensable. I waited a good 3 years before watching them. Watch End instead. Also, it may be difficult, but see if you can watch the director's cut versions of episodes 21-24; they explain more. If not, it's no big deal, you'll just have to have somebody fill you in on Death & Rebirth, which has some of the clipped scenes (but is otherwise a giant recap and should be avoided like the plague).

For the person who wants an encapsulation of the plot: My very very short version that leaves out the characters and their plots, which are very important. Select to read.

At first, it's a kids in giant mechs show. Weird alien-like things are attacking and the only thing that can penetrate their defense are mysterious "Evangelions," which can only be piloted by the young.
By the end... well, you know the myth about the Tree of Life, and God making creatures off them one by one? This was all a duel to see who would recreate the Earth in their image. The angels were jealous of humanity, the last off the tree (descendents of Lillith, last angel in a way I suppose). Of course, the humans fight among themselves for who will remake the world in their image as well. Eventually the main character gets to do it, sort of.

monolith94 · August 22, 2003, 01:34

Doesn't that make the angels more like demons though??? Confusing... And here I am with "His Dark Materials"... I guess Paradise Lost will be next!

Spiffor · August 22, 2003, 06:32

Quote:

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Can someone put aside all the jibber-jabber and explain the plot of this cartoon?

Monolith explained the plot clearly (the link I provided is much more for Evangelion fans who have seen the series, preferably several times).
You can add to Monolith explanation that the psyche of the characters gets the emphasis at mid-series... The big plot takes a step back.

Kassiopeia · August 22, 2003, 07:16

Quote:

Anno was in an asylum for awhile when he was reading all this random mysticism before putting it into a blender and making Eva.

Or at least taking some sort of drugs (of the medical kind, silly). Then he was given a book on psychology by a friend when the series was in mid-production (around where Jon is now). He decided to alter stuff, he could since the production had no clear end goal and they came up with the story as it progressed. Mind, the whole father-son thing had been established further behind already, but case Asuka for instance didn't really start to develop until after episode fifteen, sixteen.

At least that's what the evalore that's around says. One must also remember that lifting stuff from the Kabbalah, a mysterious mideastern religious text, was probably irresistible to some of the Japanese creators. The same way we like to slab the yin-yan symbol on stuff without any further thought.

Quote:

but is otherwise a giant recap and should be avoided like the plague

Bloody hell yes, like the plague. Anno had little to do with it and the director decided to ignore anything established before and went ahead to muddle up the timeline and whatnot. The whole playing a string quartet thing was nice and artsy but made absolutely no sense.

Oh, and the story. SnowFire and monolith did it so succinctly that it makes me sad (in the "agh, why can't I do this" sense). I always start to drone on about what happened during Second Impact, or what artificial evolution is.

Wraith · August 22, 2003, 07:39

--"could you link me info on the mysticism used "

There's not much point, unless you're really into that sort of thing. It's just a gloss, it doesn't really have much to do with the core story.

--" I really hate that about any series, cartoon or otherwise: never explaining a clear plot/purpose for the show on its promotional site"

Sometimes that's justified. There are a few shows where you simply cannot describe the plot without giving major spoilers. That said, Evangelion is not one of them. A couple descriptions have already been given.

--"Vampire Princess Muyi"

Miyu, you mean ^_^
Was it the OVA or the TV version? The former is some of the best gothic-horror style anime I've seen.

--"The only worthwhile things in Death are the Director's Cut clips."

Speaking of the Director's Cut version, ADV actually licensed this. It'll be on DVD in the US soon. There's some new footage in those that you'll want to see if you like the show (although it also unfortuanately proves that US Manga's translators on End of Evangelion didn't bother watching them).

What? You thought a thread with an anime series in the title would get by without my input?

Wraith
"Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire."
-- Rei Ayanami ("Neon Genesis Evangelion")

Jon Miller · August 22, 2003, 10:51

I watched the OVA version first and thought it was great

than I started watching the TV version which is watchable (was there only the two episodes of the OVA?) but not near as good

JonMiler

JCG · August 22, 2003, 20:03

Call me stupid, but I'm still not completely sure about who killed you-know-who (except if it's the very obvious yet still a bit strange to swallow answer....).

I think that something about this issue was cleared up in "Death", but I don't really remember (plus I erased it, so I can't go back and watch).

Other than that...NGE's a good series, even if you don't really get everything that's going on (especially in the last 2 episodes...too psychological for my taste).

Jon Miller · August 23, 2003, 01:04

I didn't get much about watching death

and rebirth is in the EoE movie

I rented Death and Rebirth, and bought EoE and watched them

so I have seen it all, there are still some questions I have but with EoE it all makes a lot more sense (especially the alst two episodes)

Jon Miller

devilmunchkin · August 23, 2003, 03:31

i just finished up all of it earlier this week. i think the second movie was a waste of time....and at the end, it was all waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to surreal for me. it went from cool action movie to just...i dunno..i guess after working all day, the surreal stuff was just to blah for me. but don't get me wrong, i really liked the series and stuff.

Ari Rahikkala · August 23, 2003, 03:53

Quote:

Originally posted by JCG
Call me stupid, but I'm still not completely sure about who killed you-know-who (except if it's the very obvious yet still a bit strange to swallow answer....).

I think I've read somewhere that showing her name right after that scene was honestly an oversight and that Anno Hideaki had never intended to imply that she had killed him... so, yes, the obvious answer is simply too strange to swallow.

Wraith · August 23, 2003, 10:08

--"I watched the OVA version first and thought it was great"

OVA version? Which show are you talking about? Evangelion just had the TV series and two movies.

--"Call me stupid, but I'm still not completely sure about who killed you-know-who"

If it's who I think you're talking about, you're not supposed to. Who killed isn't the important part. The death is.

--"it was all waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to surreal for me."

Nah. If you want surreal, check out Cat Soup. It'll be out on DVD here soon.

Wraith
"Roof pigs! Most unexpected!"
-- The Tick