Non-Infantry Unit Ideas

Djugashvili · January 15, 2000, 23:10

For the first part of the Rise and Fall of the Soviet Union, I have a pretty good units list, but most of them are infantry units. I want more than infantry. What would be some good aircraft, tanks, or ships to include in a scenario from 1918-1922 or so?

I thought of having a Fokker-type aircraft for the Germans, and I will include U-Boats, but what about poison gas? What kind of tanks should there be? I don't really want to have a unit called a 'tank' that everybody has, but I will do that if I can't get any other info. The internet doesn't provide many good details in this area I have found, and my history of the era is vague.

Please, help!

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"He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past."
-1984

Mao · January 15, 2000, 23:32

I don't think the Russians had any tanks. They only had a few armored personal carriers (from pictures I've seen) and cavalry. The Germans only built about 100 tanks (12-man crew) in the entire war, and most were used for the western front I believe. You could try the difference assortments of cavalry if you're running out of ideas (ie: hussars, guards, etc.)

Djugashvili · January 15, 2000, 23:37

No, I have plenty of cavalry ideas, thanks.

But this scenario isn't going to be in tremendous detail of each time period (you want detail, play a scenario that is the topic of each part of mine), so if there was only like a 100 of them, then I might as well leave them out of the picture, no?

Djugashvili · January 16, 2000, 02:21

Quick History Question:

Were Ottoman soldiers called Janisarries up to it's demise in 1922, or were they called by a more modern-type name? Or were Janisarries just the elite infantry?

Hendrik the Great · January 16, 2000, 07:28

Janisaries were first formed around 1380 and were elite regiments of the Empire. They were not "normal" troops like others in the time. Furthermore, they later acuired much influence in the ottoman politics.
After a palace revolt and an attempted Coup D'Etat of Janisaries, around 1606 I believe, they were disbanded and thousands of them executed.
After that Janisaries were never used or seen again.

Mao · January 16, 2000, 11:46

I have a question about the Turks too. Who were the Mamelukes? I don't think they're Ottoman, Seljuk maybe. But what were they?

Djugashvili · January 16, 2000, 12:12

Thanks, Hendrik.

Hendrik the Great · January 16, 2000, 12:42

Mamelukes originaly were the rulers of Egypt.
They expanded their reign into the Holy Land and were the ones fighting the Crusaders. Futhermore, they stopped the invasion of the mongols who tried to enter Egypt. In the 16th or 17 century the Ottomans became rulers of the Mameluk state.

Seljuks lived in central Turkey(Asia Minor).There never was one Seljuk state, always many Sultanates. Their territory was captured by the Ottomans in the 14th to 16th century.

Djugashvili, you probaly will get an update for my scenario sometime in the next week.

Mercator · January 17, 2000, 08:59

Just some more detailed info about the Mamelukes, no-one wants to know anyway:
Mamelukes (I think it means Slaves) were originally a Turkish people, living somewhere around the Caspian (don't know the exact location). They were driven away to Egypt at the time Genghis Khan swept through Asia. A couple of generations later they had seized power, starting as slaves, in Egypt. At that time Mongols came West again, only now the Mamelukes turned out to be the strongest.

Hendrik the Great · January 17, 2000, 14:06

There isn't really much than infantery, cavalary and a bit of artillery. Sure, a few planes here and there and perhaps a dozen tanks or so but that's it.
You could give them a few trucks and motorised vehicls; maybe even a few motorbikes.

It's just they did not have anything worth noting.

Perhaps you should go ask Alex or Cpt. Nemo
about this.

Djugashvili · January 17, 2000, 14:09

I'm not talkin just Soviets, here. I mean, EVERYONE. The Germans used a lot of planes, didn't they?

Rhenskold · January 17, 2000, 15:46

About the Janisarries...

The ottoman armies was very...exotic. Officers for example had titles as "Soup Cook". Anyway.. I think that revolt was in the beginning of the 19th century! It was a active and competent Sultan on the throne then, who saw the need for modernization, which the Janisarries stopped with all their old fashions. They where only effective until the 18th century, later on they acted as a Pretorian guard!

Hendrik the Great · January 17, 2000, 18:12

Djugash: I don't know about those planes in WW1, I thought that was WW2. But the germans did let the russians advance deep into east prussia on porpuse. The russians were defeated badly at Tannenberg.

I will have to put my nose into my history books before I say anything that ain't true.
Also I must admit,when it comes down to such details, the World Wars aren't my real strength and I don't have useful books about troops in the WWs.

Rhenskold: I can only say what I read. All my books say they were the last used and seen as anything significant in 1606 when there was a revolt of them because of reforms(you are right on those reforms). It may well be that there were still a few of them around until the 19th century, however, they lost all relevant historic importance in 1606. Even if not, there probaly would only have been a few dozens of them or less left in the 19th centurt.

January 17, 2000, 20:30

I would suggest using units for event triggers.

Hendrik the Great · January 18, 2000, 01:15

Yeap, that's the part of my history books I didn't bother to read!

Djugashvili · January 18, 2000, 01:16

Eh, what about my unit ideas, everyone?

Rhenskold · January 18, 2000, 14:30

Well Hendrik. They was very important and also very many unitil 19century! But lost their elite quality in 17th century. Altough they were still the most important element of the Ottoman armies! So people making scenarios with Turkey figuring in, should/could have that Unit. Theyre really interesting and exotic troops!
In 1826 their Corp was destroyed.

Hendrik the Great · January 18, 2000, 15:42

Alright! Alright! I admit you are right! I can impossibly know everything, can I?
You want exotic names? How about Solakbasi, Magharibah or Tüfeçi?

Djugash: I've been doing some looking around and there is not much to find.

What are the players included again?

Djugashvili · January 18, 2000, 16:53

The civs are:

USSR
Germans
Western Europe (or NATO)
North Americans
Eastern Europe
Other Countries (inlcuding the so called 'unstable' ones)
Communist countries/satellites
Barbarians=Whites in first part

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President of the Apolyton Workers' Union and
Vengeful Employee of Ghost Ham

"Workers of Apolyton, Unite!"

January 18, 2000, 19:05

I still think that should use lots of units for events triggers.

Djugashvili · January 18, 2000, 21:55

What exactly do you mean?

Mao · January 19, 2000, 00:17

I believe he means:

If unitkilled
Then etc. etc.

you know, for personalized units, like Stalin, Kerensky, Lenin, etc.

Djugashvili · January 19, 2000, 00:24

Ah, yes. I was considering that, but I don't think the desirable effects could be achieved through the means of what is possible in FW...

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President of the Apolyton Workers' Union,
Vengeful Employee of Ghost Ham, and
Personnel Manager at the Poke-Skinning Factory

"Workers of Apolyton, Unite!"

January 19, 2000, 03:33

Not just people! You could also use forts, towns, and special units for that. That would definately help any scenario, even just for text boxes.