Elite Units, game review

eao · August 26, 2003, 08:33

I started a game last night as Germany. I started out on a flood plain, and was cranking out settlers. I had 7 cities at about 1200 BC, and from out of no where, Russia proposes a trade: Russia's Territory Map for my Territory map + 23 gold. I felt like that was extortion, so I told Russia to go pound sand.

What was their reaction? War! Not just any war. They had to enlist four other countries against me the turn after their war declaration.

Now I think my first mistake was not contacting my neighboring civs for alliances against the Russians. Regardless, I held off the five country onslaught until 500 AD, when most of the invaders decided thier efforts were futile. Out of the whole war, I got only one leader. I lost 15 or so elite Swordsmen, which shocked me, as Germany is militaristic.

Meanwhile, the Japanese, who were not involved at any point during the war, come at me with knights and samurai. I fought them off for a few turns, and bought them off with my measly 150 gold treasury. So now I'm way behind in techs, and all the other civs are extorting me for cash. The only thing I have going for me is culture; I've been sucking in a few cities.

What can I learn from this game? When attacked for no reason, make alliances against your attacked before he does the same to you? Don't let wars drag on for 1700 years? Don't fight a war in while in despotism? Why were the elite units so ineffective?

Nym · August 26, 2003, 09:00

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Originally posted by eao
When attacked for no reason, make alliances against your attacked before he does the same to you?

That is what I do when I can, especially with my neighbours.

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Don't let wars drag on for 1700 years?

Yes, it would be better if you do not want to be technically out.

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Don't fight a war in while in despotism?

You can fight under despotism. Best government to fight is communism but I prefer republic to keep a high science level.

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Why were the elite units so ineffective?

The chance was not with you during this game.

Harovan · August 26, 2003, 09:41

Quote:

Originally posted by eao
When attacked for no reason, make alliances against your attacked before he does the same to you?

That's tremendously important:

If your opponent has to go through another country to get to you (naval landings don't count, the AI is crappy at it), ally with this civ and you're rid of them. You may get a RoP and help him (maybe to generate a leader), or not, if you don't want.

If your opponent is your neighbor and there's a civ located behind him, ally with that civ. The AI sucks at 2 front wars.

If there's no civ behind the attacker, but behind you, ally with that civ and grant them a RoP, just to prevent your ally to do so and get you in a 2 front war.

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Don't let wars drag on for 1700 years?

Years don't count, they're variable. Turns count. Choose your targets wisely, strike hard, strike fast, get your objectives and get the hell out of that war. Don't let your wars last more than 10 or at most 20 turns.

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Don't fight a war in while in despotism

I don't see why. Despotism is a good war government.

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Why were the elite units so ineffective?

Pray, keep your fingers crossed, knock at wood. Bet you missed that. A sacrifice to the gods of the RNG will do it too (NYE takes m&m's). If you're not superstitious, just try again in the next war.

eao · August 26, 2003, 09:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Pray, keep your fingers crossed, knock at wood. Bet you missed that. A sacrifice to the gods of the RNG will do it too (NYE takes m&m's). If you're not superstitious, just try again in the next war.

Gotcha. I won't change my socks until the next time I attack with an elite unit.

bongo · August 26, 2003, 10:06

Looks like you worked out your 'errors' already

It's very important to get allies, they may not be very effective but at least they bother someone else. Even if I hate to give the AI anything I will gladly pay them GPT or luxuries to fight at my side if the situation is getting tight.

Gufnork · August 26, 2003, 11:48

One thing I do with my elites is to never throw them at something they might lose. I always weaken cities with veterans until the defenders are so weak that I'm confident to win. That's when I bring in the elites. Always use elites to attack lone archers, but never place them in a position where they can be counterattacked. Veterans are expendable. Elites are not.

Then again, no matter how well you care for your elites, Lady Luck has her own agenda.

Nym · August 26, 2003, 15:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Gufnork
Lady Luck has her own agenda.

I like the way you say it.

Arrian · August 26, 2003, 15:54

Quote:

When attacked for no reason, make alliances against your attacked before he does the same to you?

I'd amend that slightly: If attacked and you do not have the capability to flatten the attacker, get alliances.

Better yet, however, is to be the attacker.

-Arrian

Spiffor · August 26, 2003, 16:06

Once, I couldn't ally with anybody on the continent (emperor level). I had been churning out settlers to be first in the settler race, and the AI didn't like that. It profited from my overextension to get me easily. The AI hasn't made a grand alliance against me in the first turn, but there was simply no price I could pay to bribe anybody to join my side

Arrian · August 26, 2003, 16:14

If you're weak and your opponent is strong, it's hard to find allies. I've learned that one the hard way too.

-Arrian

vmxa1 · August 26, 2003, 18:01

The easiest way to get them on board is to offer some tech. That is, if you have any. Next I will offer luxs, they tend to want those. One other reason to sign up others even when you do not need them and maybe don't care if they come in against you, is when you want to stop the war, it is a lot easier if there is only one enemy.

TheArsenal · August 26, 2003, 18:21

This may be more my impression than hard fact, but it seems to me if I drag early wars on for too long, civs are much more willing to ally against me, than if I do so later. This could be based on any number of factors as well: having a chance to build a trading history/relationship with those civs, my strength later in the game, etc. But I try to never fight early wars more than 8 or 9 turns or so, if possible.

ChrisiusMaximus · August 27, 2003, 13:45

Alliances are good but as Arrian says only if you really think you need them, if you think you can easily torch the civ that declares on you then go it alone.

Much better by far to make sure you have a strong miliatary for defense or for attack and be the one to declare the war in the first place.

bongo · August 28, 2003, 04:22

Make an alliance anyway. Even if you are strong enough to rip your victim to pieces without help, an alliance make sure your victim don't recieve help(techs, resources).

Alliances are cheaper when you are stronger, give them a lux and they join

PLATO · August 28, 2003, 09:01

My feeling is that if they were wanting your territory map and gold, that war was coming soon anyway. This is usually my clue to start building alliances right away even if the cost is high. Next time, give them the map, get an alliance, and then attack first!

Theseus · August 28, 2003, 15:06

I now do alliances much more than I used to... just so I don't get bothered by the other AI civs, and also to disrupt everybody. It sometimes backfires in a good way, and results in Killer AI civs.

My favorites are total gangbangs, where I ally the world against one AI civ, and then rinse and repeat against them all in turn.