Is WLTLD too powerful with 2xproduction?

Carolus Rex · August 27, 2003, 13:49

Almost all my MP games have been played with standard production and movement. Recently I've played a couple of 2xproduction games against the AI, heading for early republic. The WLTCD seems unbiased with double production IMHO, hence my question.

Does 2xproduction render WLTLD too powerful in your opinion?

Carolus

rah · August 27, 2003, 13:59

If you have HG, I MIGHT agree. But otherwise no. Playing deity, it takes some infrastructure improvements to properly celebrate across your empire. (trade routes, markets, etc) Most of the time you're watching for even/odd pop counts for when you can celebrate on the evens. But even that only goes so far. In the long run, pyramids and food can spur growth similarly. But celebrating is faster in the short term.

War4ever · August 27, 2003, 14:34

seeing as Rah often gets HG, yes its easier for him to celebrate

he rarely has to do it the old fashioned way

Ming · August 27, 2003, 14:45

He gets HG no more often than I do... And I have no problems celebrating without it. However, I usually start a little later to make sure I have the infrastructure in place to really take advantage of it.

Since everybody in a game can take advantage of WLYD's, it's not really all that powerful. One could argue (as many do) that HG is too powerful in any Deity game... but WLYD's remain the same for everybody.

rah · August 27, 2003, 14:59

Yeah, If you're in a game with BERZ, you ain't getting it unless he gets off to a slow start or you are willing to sacrifice some early growth.

War4ever · August 27, 2003, 15:03

HEHE...just teasing lads, and yes, with berz in the game if youdont start it as soon as you build your capital, your not getting it

Alexander's Horse · August 27, 2003, 19:52

Oh goody - another opportunity to say x2 sucks.

rah · August 27, 2003, 20:38

loosely translates to......."I get my ass kicked every time I play 2x prod, so it must suck since I can't handle it".

War4ever · August 27, 2003, 21:07

no no Rah you got it wrong, Horse just sucks because hes not used to fighting before modern times

rah · August 27, 2003, 21:15

I stand corrected.

Carolus Rex · August 28, 2003, 02:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Oh goody - another opportunity to say x2 sucks.

Well, eh, no. I'm seriously (you know, that special kind of Nordic seriousness

) interested in the topic.

Carolus

Carolus Rex · August 28, 2003, 02:19

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
loosely translates to......."I get my ass kicked every time I play 2x prod, so it must suck since I can't handle it".

Same reply as given to AH.

Carolus

atawa · August 28, 2003, 03:04

Doesnt realy matter when playing MP, but against AI the game becomes ridiculously easy.

Ming · August 28, 2003, 03:19

Once you really understand the game... playing against the AI is just too easy no matter what you do. People have won staying in Dep... One City... not being allowed to build a city.... you name it... the AI is just easy to beat no matter how you handicap yourself

Makeo · August 28, 2003, 04:33

really??

DrSpike · August 28, 2003, 07:50

Wlt*d is too powerful against the AI no matter what the production settings. That has always been the case, right through to SMAC where the last implementation in the form of pop booms took place.

I'm not seeing many posts comparing 2x and 1x here. My take would be that sure, 2x makes republic easier, but the bloodthirsty opponent next to you can get a big army easier.

The 2 settings that would be most common with 2x prod are 2x2x King (where its not just 2x prod making rep so desirable) and 2x1x Deity, like Rah's group, who play small world's so taking advantage of wlt*d without enough defence would probably be punished.

atawa · August 28, 2003, 11:26

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike

The 2 settings that would be most common with 2x prod are 2x2x King (where its not just 2x prod making rep so desirable)

2x movement doesnt make rep more desirable as the guy in mon next to your civ can attack with a large amount of 2x cats.

I'd say 1x movement is always better for rep.

DrSpike · August 28, 2003, 11:36

Well it depends. The counterexample I was using was 2x1x Deity on small worlds, where there are many tactical threats as well.

But at any rate we agree. 2x prod makes republic easier, but in both 2x2x King and 2x1x Deity small worlds there are offsetting tactical threats which act as mitigating factors.

Hence, I (and Atawa I think) don't think wtl*d is any more powerful in 2x than 1x.

atawa · August 28, 2003, 11:46

True, 2x tradearrows makes all the difference.

But the nice thing about 2x1x is that while you enjoy the benifits of 2x production you dont realy have to worry about attacks as you'll see your attackers comming and not have some fleet comming in that destroys city's 4 tiles inland.

Oh and its atawa.

DrSpike · August 28, 2003, 11:52

Quote:

Originally posted by atawa
Oh and its atawa.

Didn't realise there was a difference.

atawa · August 28, 2003, 11:54

As a member of PATUOCIN I can say there is

DrSpike · August 28, 2003, 11:56

What?

atawa · August 28, 2003, 11:58

PATUOCIN

DrSpike · August 28, 2003, 12:03

Which is?

rah · August 29, 2003, 08:35

Quote:

Originally posted by atawa
True, 2x tradearrows makes all the difference.

But the nice thing about 2x1x is that while you enjoy the benifits of 2x production you dont realy have to worry about attacks as you'll see your attackers comming and not have some fleet comming in that destroys city's 4 tiles inland.

Both are true. But sometimes seeing it coming doesn't help.