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MSN - War Plans, Tech, and diplomancy
John says:
so I was wanting your input on ecological engineering verus flexibility?
John says:
if we do go for ecological engineering that means invasion plans will have to be put on hold.
Volatire says:
I know
Volatire says:
Let me consult with the Marshal, I tend more towards the pacificstic side of the spectrum...
Volatire says:
And would prefer ecological engineering.
John says:
Jamski suggested that if we decide to go flexibility.
John says:
and do go to war and probe other factions for techs
John says:
we may become known as the evil hive
John says:
for the rest of the game
Volatire says:
I'm well aware of that, but we need to weigh the consequences of war with the benefits of it.
John says:
*nod*
John says:
it's going to be a gamble
John says:
also the drones may not want to be dragged into an early war.
Volatire says:
IMO we should strike first, since someone has to throw the first blow, it might as well be us.
Volatire says:
We won't ask that they be...
Volatire says:
They can remain neutral...
Volatire says:
The treaty we signed specifies nothing as to them joining a war against another faction if we decide to do so.
John says:
as long as they can avoid infiltration.
John says:
the thing is the current pact situation may suggest to the other factions they may be on our team?
John says:
actually maybe not
John says:
hrmm ignore what I said
Volatire says:
The other factions are opportunistic, they may well view us as aggressors but that does not mean they will fight us. Some may well make deals with us against their enemies.
John says:
okay, what level of trust should we give to the drones on this matter?
John says:
should only give them a short heads up of our plans?
Volatire says:
None, I would rather that the operation remains undisclosed until its undertaking.
John says:
okay then
John says:
so when we've got the troops loaded
Volatire says:
When the troops have landed, then perhaps.
Volatire says:
If they notice anything in the mean time.
Volatire says:
We will tell the truth.
John says:
buster will notice our troop movements the moment we start
Volatire says:
If he has any questions, direct him to me...
John says:
we should try and see what they think about the matter
Volatire says:
Perhaps, but I do not wish them involved just yet for two reasons...
John says:
they could like the university more?
Volatire says:
First of all if they are supportive of the effort they may want involvement in it as part of the pact, thus we would have to share the spoils, which I do not want to do.
John says:
*nod*
Volatire says:
Second of all, they may oppose the action, creating resentment between our factions when we go ahead despite their objections.
Volatire says:
The Drones will not outright betray us, but in the future they may view us differently.
Volatire says:
If we attack first...
Volatire says:
Then explain ourselves.
Volatire says:
They will have less time to think about the implications of what has occured.
Volatire says:
If they do ask, which I suspect they will...
Volatire says:
I will speak to Buster myself on the matter...
John says:
okay
Volatire says:
The rationel for the operation, at least officialy, is that the possibility of an alliance between the Uni and CyCon/Pirates
Volatire says:
is too great.
Volatire says:
That we have decided to take preemptive action to ensure that the Uni is on our side.
Volatire says:
If they surrender
Volatire says:
which i suspect they will
John says:
okay
Volatire says:
We have ourselves a submissive faction which will provide us with research. In order to ensure that they do not rebel we will keep one of their bases as a military base within their territory where we can quickly quell any attempted rebelions.
Volatire says:
If they chose to die, which I find unlikely
Volatire says:
We are at a dissadvantage in the short run
Volatire says:
since we have to administer their former bases
Volatire says:
I think the second scenareo less likely
Volatire says:
Archaic may not wish to submit to us
Volatire says:
but there are others in the University that will
Volatire says:
General Tactius seems to be a suitable candidate to replace Archaic
Volatire says:
also
Volatire says:
on a more RP level
John says:
okay
Volatire says:
we can rationalize our actions by stating that we were liberating the opressed University from the dictatorship of archaic
Volatire says:
since if i recall corectly they are not a democracy
John says:
heh
John says:
cycon may be broken away
Volatire says:
The politics of this I have worked out, the matter of exicuting the orders falls into the hands of yourself and the marshal
Volatire says:
May be broken away?
John says:
cycon aren't completely happy with pirates
Volatire says:
ah
Volatire says:
that would work in our favor
Volatire says:
if we subdue the univerisity we become more powerful
Volatire says:
and if the cycon/pirate relationship deteriorates then it servers our purposes all the more
Volatire says:
we can play them off of oneanother
John says:
if we take out the university it may start working better
John says:
from nessecity
Volatire says:
ah
Volatire says:
but here's the catch
Volatire says:
if we subdue the university in one turn, or a few... the marshal can do this, then it will take time for the information to get out
Volatire says:
we would have replaced the university government with out pupper regime
Volatire says:
which would in effect praise us
Volatire says:
we can even get general tactius to say he asked for our help
Volatire says:
no one could be able to prove otherwise
John says:
I think archaic will shout murder first
Volatire says:
it may strenghten their relations in the short run
Volatire says:
let him, the University is already dissatisfied with his rule
Volatire says:
they won't shead tears when he is overthrown
John says:
I'm not so sure
John says:
how did he get to be leader without any support
Volatire says:
he is a good player
Volatire says:
but he is arrogant
Volatire says:
and not exactly well liked
John says:
okay
Volatire says:
i'm certain you've heard the story that he was the only person in the first DG that lost an election to xenobabana
Volatire says:
and he was the only candidate
John says:
heh
Volatire says:
but even if it strenghtens cycon/pirate relations
Volatire says:
that outcome is better than having either the cycon or pirates team up with the Uni
John says:
anyway my plan is Rokossovky or someone else always runs the military
John says:
and I just run our home industry and ecomony
Volatire says:
not to worry i would have it no other way, rokossovky will show his talent when we go to war
Volatire says:
the only conscern i have is how we shall run the Uni after the invasion
Volatire says:
my current line of thinking is that we set up an administration similar to what the americans did after WWII in japan
Volatire says:
a pacifist constitution
Volatire says:
not allow them segnificant military forces, just police and defense would be provided by us
Volatire says:
my conscern is that archaic will flee to another faction asking for help
John says:
technically that would be good for them
John says:
can archaic do that?
Volatire says:
I'm not sure, googlie may allow it, it would provide for interesting RP and it would be realistic
Volatire says:
regardless if he gives them information or not
Volatire says:
he can ask for help to be restored to power
John says:
okay
Volatire says:
this gives them a casus beli against us
Volatire says:
the question becomes what the drones will do latter on after the treaty expires
John says:
I suggest after we take over the uni
John says:
we try and let the drones do some of the occupation too.
John says:
we're only really after the tech.
John says:
the treaty technically never expires
John says:
it has to be actively canceled
Volatire says:
ah
John says:
and a 10 year warning needs to be given too
Volatire says:
a misunderstanding on my part
Volatire says:
hmm
Volatire says:
well i see two ways of dealing with the drones
Volatire says:
allow them to participate in the occupation by giving them a base
John says:
and the earliest the pact can be canceled is 40 years after the making
Volatire says:
except that is dangerous since they may help a uni rebelion against us
John says:
I'm thinking that we give them a base and let them participate
Volatire says:
and betray us
Volatire says:
or alternatively
John says:
well I'm more worried the drones will take over our homeland
John says:
rather than the university land
Volatire says:
the problem is that the uni will object, we can force it on them
Volatire says:
but will it help much
Volatire says:
how about this
Volatire says:
we allow the drones access to the unclaimed land on the uni continent
Volatire says:
that will allow them to establish bases
Volatire says:
without taking any away from the uni
Volatire says:
just a suggestion
Volatire says:
but we do need to deal with the drones somehow
Volatire says:
we need them to be happy
Volatire says:
at least until we have secured our homeland
John says:
we can always tell the drones to put sea bases
Volatire says:
true
Volatire says:
which reminds me
John says:
make it part of the tech thingy
Volatire says:
we also need to establish maritime control laws
Volatire says:
so other factions will not establish bases in our territorail waters
John says:
pirates will be making their own
John says:
Gobal sea pact
Volatire says:
if they do invade our waters it means war eventualy
Volatire says:
but before we can propose such a thing
Volatire says:
we need to contact the other factions
Volatire says:
and call a council
Volatire says:
i will draft a proposal for such a pact
John says:
okay
Volatire says:
i think all factions will respect it
Volatire says:
if nothing else
John says:
pirates will raise a ruckus
Volatire says:
we should have enough votes to pass it
Volatire says:
if they do then they will be in violation of the UN
John says:
heh
Volatire says:
and the land factions will view it as a hostile act on part of the pirates if they do not sign
John says:
*nod*
Volatire says:
googlie will have to RP the AI factions
Volatire says:
but it breaks down like this
Volatire says:
we will command 2 votes in council
Volatire says:
ours and that of the uni
Volatire says:
the drones will probably side with us
Volatire says:
that's 3 votes
Volatire says:
we have 4 remaining
John says:
we are doing it on 1 faction 1 vote
John says:
or council votes
Volatire says:
1 faction 1 vote
Volatire says:
on issues like this
John says:
okay I didn't think it was clear
Volatire says:
that's how the in-game UN operates, and so should we
Volatire says:
all we would need is the vote of one of the other remaining factions
Volatire says:
and i suspect that the AI or perhaps the CyCon will vote in favor
Volatire says:
and it cannot be vetoed by the planitery governor
Volatire says:
which reminds me
Volatire says:
we need to secure ourselves that position
John says:
yeah
John says:
but how is the question
Volatire says:
how is what question?
John says:
but how can we do that, that is the question
Volatire says:
well unlike the in-game council decisions the effects will not be automatic, and will need to be enforced
Volatire says:
i see two ways of doing this
Volatire says:
one is basicaly an honor system where each faction does not violate the treaty
Volatire says:
if discovered then there could be economic, military, or political reprocusions
Volatire says:
for example
Volatire says:
let us say the pirates violate the waters of the CyCon
John says:
hrmm I haven't tested yet, but I think we can't turn bases over to other factions.
Volatire says:
we should be able to?
Volatire says:
give it to them during negotiations
John says:
for the AI we can
Volatire says:
that would make little sense
Volatire says:
i would have swore that there is a way to do it
John says:
can I bring vev in
John says:
he might know
Volatire says:
of course
Vev has been added to the conversation.
John says:
would you know about
John says:
base exchanges in PBEMs
Vev says:
I have no idea
Vev says:
apart from gifting them a colony pod
Volatire says:
hmm, we will need to ask googlie
Volatire says:
but as i was saying
Vev says:
or let the city riot and hope it transfers to them
Volatire says:
in such a case the CyCon could demand that the pirates hand over the base, and if they refuse, then they can ask for military help from other factions
Volatire says:
what other factions do is up to them of course
John says:
okay
Volatire says:
it would create interesting politics
Volatire says:
sort of like the real un
John says:
it would indeed
Volatire says:
but IMO they would enforce the maritime treaty since its in their best interests to
John says:
not really
John says:
because the land to sea base radius is 1 square
Volatire says:
ah but we would exend this in the treaty
Volatire says:
make it 3 squares
Volatire says:
or something like that
John says:
okay
Volatire says:
the other method of enforcing the UN rulings would be to create a UN military force
John says:
that sounds interesting
Vev says:
with Hive in charge and exempt from war crimes and atrocities
Volatire says:
basicaly all member states would contribute military units to the force, which would be commanded by the planetary governor (making the position very powerful)
John says:
vev
Volatire says:
lol
Volatire says:
ah
Volatire says:
i'll get to that
Volatire says:
if a UN military force exists
Volatire says:
and we are in command of it
John says:
the planetary governor is already very powerful with infiltration
Volatire says:
and if we control the majority of the votes in council
Volatire says:
we can very well attack other factions in the name of the UN
Volatire says:
i don't think the other factions would go for it though
Volatire says:
true
John says:
hrmm in one of the games I'm in planetary council is disabled
John says:
I can't remember if it's humcad or ACDG
Volatire says:
hmm i don't think googlie did anything to the planetary council in this one
John says:
okay
Volatire says:
and even if it is disabled, we can still create one of our own for RP as well as in-game decisions
John says:
*nod*
Volatire says:
we can for example set polution emmision standards
Volatire says:
things like that
Volatire says:
it would be up to the planetary governor to enforce it
John says:
with jamski's map
John says:
I mean terraforming
John says:
we've got lots of polution
Volatire says:
well in that case we veto such a proposal, besides remember that there is no way such things can be enforced
Volatire says:
it's mainly RP
Volatire says:
environmental laws in this game will not be popular
John says:
heh
Volatire says:
since we have ourselves the Drones and the pupper Uni against them
Volatire says:
i'm getting ahead of myself
John says:
hrmm we're being over optimistic with conquoring uni
Volatire says:
we still need to actualy take over the Uni first
Volatire says:
it can be done
Volatire says:
it's just a matter of getting the forces out to do it
Volatire says:
have confidence in our marshals abilities
John says:
okay then
Vev says:
CRUSH KILL DESTROY!
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