August 31, 2003, 05:40
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#91
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
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Did they push the same politics with the same influence under Bush I?
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Of course. Remember that Cheney ran Gulf War I. The only person that was plused up in influence was Wolfowitz. But not much. Wolfowitz was in the Defense department in both Reagan and Bush I in fairly senior policy positions.
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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August 31, 2003, 05:46
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#92
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Chieftain
Local Time: 00:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
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Location: Los Angeles
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Why the comparason to Jews? 
The Bush administration has solidified two trends in US politics:
Domestically, appeal to the affluent and affluent sympathisers at the expense of social programs and
Internationally, maintain US unipolar status by any means necessary, force included.
There you go - tax cuts for the first, military spending for the second, but both are essentially conservative programs very similar to those carried out by other superpowers.
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August 31, 2003, 05:49
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#93
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
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Why the comparason to Jews?
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Because they have roughly equivalent numbers now in the US. I also know the hate crimes statistics for both muslims and Jews, so could back it up when challenged on the subject. 
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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August 31, 2003, 05:52
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#94
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
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Internationally, maintain US unipolar status by any means necessary, force included.
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I think you're imagining what you fear could be Bush's policies rather than what his policies actually are. Even the defense posture review that was bandied about doesn't mention the unipolar status. We could be a mere superpower and do all of the things that were mentioned in the document.
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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August 31, 2003, 05:59
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#95
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Chieftain
Local Time: 00:00
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A superpower technically would be interested only in what is necessary to remain a superpower. The defense posture actually talks about "interests" in general, and since US de facto has interests everywhere now, the posture would imply that US will maintain its status wherever and whenever it is challenged. From the posture of the Bush administration it is clear that US will not tolerate any superpower that could potentially rise, since that is bound to affect some of the US "interests".
Had US been one of two superpowers now, the defense posture would maintain that status. Since US is a unipolar - that position will be maintained by force.
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August 31, 2003, 06:03
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#96
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
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Join Date: Dec 1969
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I don't get it. Why would a superpower not have interests as well? Why else be a superpower?
And I might add, that right now our interests as defined in the defense posture are not being upheld universally by a long shot anyway.
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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August 31, 2003, 06:04
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#97
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Settler
Local Time: 09:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DanS
Of course. Remember that Cheney ran Gulf War I.
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And that was a very different story from the Iraq occupation this year.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 31, 2003, 06:06
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#98
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
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Join Date: Dec 1969
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Well, all the tiles are still there, minus James Baker. You want me to proclaim some fictitious "rise of the right" because some of the tiles were moved around?
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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August 31, 2003, 06:14
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#99
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Chieftain
Local Time: 00:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 95
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A superpower might have worldwide interests, but they would be checked by another superpower. A sole superpower without organized and unified opposition is de facto a unipolar, as US is today.
As for US interests, they are upheld just enough to keep the US in unipolar status - why go to greater lengths? Who cares about North Korea, as long as it's not a threat to US status?
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August 31, 2003, 06:18
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#100
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Settler
Local Time: 09:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DanS
Well, all the tiles are still there, minus James Baker. You want me to proclaim some fictitious "rise of the right" because some of the tiles were moved around?
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If you describe the difference between gulf war II and III as moving some tiles around, then again we're talking different realities to the extent that communication is impossible.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 31, 2003, 06:39
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#101
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
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Well, what you want I should say?
Sure, they seem to have taken a closer look at the relative value of detterence. But they're the same group of folks. The only new face is an 80 year old secretary of defense who was secretary of defense several decades ago. Elected to Congress in 1962. Yep, that's a rise of the right alright. 
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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August 31, 2003, 06:43
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#102
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Settler
Local Time: 09:00
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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You don't think that they have become more radical, and wield more influence?
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 31, 2003, 06:49
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#103
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
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Join Date: Dec 1969
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What's to say they weren't radical all along? Are we to say that they are more radical, just because they have a slightly different fact pattern in front of them?
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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August 31, 2003, 07:50
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#104
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King
Local Time: 08:00
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Uni of Wales Swansea
Posts: 1,262
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If the US standards of living fall below (or equal) that of its European neighbours, it's likely there will be calls for military spending to be cut.
Of course, whether that will happen is a different issue.
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August 31, 2003, 11:56
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#105
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Prince
Local Time: 08:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Bristol, European Union
Posts: 573
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If you use GDP per head as your guide then that will take a very long time to happen, as we european work 10% to 15% fewer hours than the average american and the number of hours worked here is falling whereas in the US the number of hours worked has been stable since the early 1970's (which makes the US the odd one out as hours are also falling in most of the rest of the developed world and have historically done so).
It's possible that the EU could beat US GDP per hour worked by 2030
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August 31, 2003, 12:16
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#106
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
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The reason the US is a monopole and wil remain so for a while is that most other states simply are fine with the current situation: as I said, power porjection by the US is a function not only of the equipment, but even more of the fact that dozens of sates around the world let us use their territory. If none of Afghanistan's neighbors had allowed the US through, all the carriers and cargo planes would have meant diddly, since we could not get at the enemy (and if we treid to anyway, you would have a much bigger and dangarous operation). The same is true with Iraq: we wanted a nothern front, we have the capability to set up a northern front, Turkey said no, there was no northern front. Had Kuwait said no to basing our troops, there would have been no southern front either. The thing is, the second the other states with the ability to challange the US start to think that leaving the U as the sole monopole is not that acceptable a policy to continue. US power relative to the tohers will decline, if only becuase the others will inevitably beguin to build theirs up. In that respect, Bush accelerates the situation because 1) he creates situations in which US unipolirity is no longer viewed solely as benevolent, and 2), by draining the budget he lowers the abiity of the government to shift speinding upwards when and if others start to build up. The thing is, Bush will be long out of power by the time this is a serious challange, so the question is whether whomever is rpesident in 2004 and beyond keep the Bush tax cuts or end them.
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If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
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August 31, 2003, 13:25
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#107
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Prince
Local Time: 00:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 551
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I don't understand how us being the monopole and having the ability to crush whoever we want helps improve the quality of life for the average American.
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"The first man who, having fenced off a plot of land, thought of saying, 'This is mine' and found people simple enough to believe him was the real founder of civil society. How many crimes, wars, murders, how many miseries and horrors might the human race had been spared by the one who, upon pulling up the stakes or filling in the ditch, had shouted to his fellow men: 'Beware of listening to this imposter; you are lost if you forget the fruits of the earth belong to all and that the earth belongs to no one." - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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August 31, 2003, 15:49
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#108
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King
Local Time: 08:00
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Posts: 2,887
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Benefits of being the monopole
US as monopole is one of the biggest reasons the US is attractive to foreign investors. Investors are a conservative bunch and prize stability possibly most of all. Foreign investment is one of the bigger reasons the US can support the trade deficit it has, and this has a direct impact on pumping up the standard of living in the US.
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That's not the real world. Your job has little to do with the sort of thing most people do for a living. - Agathon
If social security were private, it would be prosecuted as a Ponzi scheme.
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August 31, 2003, 15:55
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#109
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King
Local Time: 02:00
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Posts: 1,649
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If the rest of the world gangs up on the US we are dead meat. Here is why:
Europe, Japan: Technology
China: Lots of soldiers
Middle east: good "special ops" 
Israel: Mossad 
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Nothing to see here, move along: http://selzlab.blogspot.com
The attempt to produce Heaven on Earth often produces Hell. -Karl Popper
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August 31, 2003, 16:35
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#110
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Emperor
Local Time: 03:00
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Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
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Napolean -
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Quote:
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The Bush administration has solidified two trends in US politics:
Domestically, appeal to the affluent and affluent sympathisers at the expense of social programs
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What social programs have been cut? If anything, the social welfare system is growing enormously under Bush - drugs for seniors...
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August 31, 2003, 16:41
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#111
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Settler
Local Time: 09:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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Re: Benefits of being the monopole
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 31, 2003, 17:28
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#112
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Chieftain
Local Time: 00:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Berzerker
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Quote:
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What social programs have been cut? If anything, the social welfare system is growing enormously under Bush - drugs for seniors...
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Education is taking a hit already, but the greatest impact will be felt down the road. I said that he cuts taxes at the expense of social programs - where else would the money come from? Is it not clear that he is more devoted to serving the affluent than maintaining the social programs. What gives?
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August 31, 2003, 17:38
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#113
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
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GePap: I would agree with your reason #1. However, most countries have never viewed American power as benevolent. If this is so, why are we involved in most countries of the world, with the full permission and cooperation of the native governments?
It is better to look at this as whether or not others view the US as a credible force, with the positives outweighing the negatives. In this light, Bush has been highly successful. He is very credible on the world stage, even if US prestige might take a hit. The number of countries with which we are involved militarily has skyrocketed under Bush. And he was able to do this extremely cheaply. Just look at your example of Central Asia.
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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August 31, 2003, 17:49
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#114
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Warlord
Local Time: 01:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 249
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Odin
If the rest of the world gangs up on the US we are dead meat. Here is why:
Europe, Japan: Technology
China: Lots of soldiers
Middle east: good "special ops"
Israel: Mossad
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Silly US bashers always have wet dreams like this. They don't realize that US only needs marginal effort to turn those guys on each other if it wants.
Just imagine how easy it would be to have Chinese and Japanese tearing each other to shreds. 
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August 31, 2003, 17:50
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#115
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Settler
Local Time: 09:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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"He is very credible on the world stage" 
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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August 31, 2003, 17:53
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#116
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
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Quote:
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If you use GDP per head as your guide then that will take a very long time to happen, as we european work 10% to 15% fewer hours than the average american and the number of hours worked here is falling whereas in the US the number of hours worked has been stable since the early 1970's (which makes the US the odd one out as hours are also falling in most of the rest of the developed world and have historically done so).
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Of course, this could change a lot. The rest of the industrialized world could reverse course. I doubt the US will change much, though. Everybody will work for a new addition on to their house. But that's just a hunch of mine.
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
Last edited by DanS; August 31, 2003 at 17:58.
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August 31, 2003, 17:54
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#117
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Deity
Local Time: 04:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
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Quote:
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"He is very credible on the world stage"
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Well, who else has said that two governments should disappear in 2 years and then made it so? Iran and North Korea certainly believe in his credibility.
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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August 31, 2003, 17:57
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#118
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Warlord
Local Time: 01:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 249
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Napoleon I
Berzerker
Education is taking a hit already, but the greatest impact will be felt down the road. I said that he cuts taxes at the expense of social programs - where else would the money come from? Is it not clear that he is more devoted to serving the affluent than maintaining the social programs. What gives?
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If there is one thing that needs to be cut, it's the social programs. However, Bush admin is not cutting them since doing so would piss off millions of voters. Especially cuts in Medicare/Medicaid are a big no-no. GOP had suffered enough during its last confrontation on that issue with Dems when it only wanted to cut the NET INCREASE in Medicare expenses.
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August 31, 2003, 18:00
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#119
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Warlord
Local Time: 01:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 249
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"He is very credible on the world stage"
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Credibility is something you said you would do and then do it.
So far Bush has been true to his words. (not that I necessarily agree with him.)
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August 31, 2003, 19:32
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#120
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Prince
Local Time: 08:00
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Bristol, European Union
Posts: 573
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DanS
Of course, this could change a lot. The rest of the industrialized world could reverse course. I doubt the US will change much, though. Everybody will work for a new addition on to their house. But that's just a hunch of mine.
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Well the trend I referred to (that stopped in the US since the early 1970's) has been going on since the 1850's
Do you really think it will stop completely?
And if it does don't you think that maybe the US will 'catch up' with the increased leisure time at some point?
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