Thread Tools
Old August 31, 2003, 19:53   #1
The diplomat
King
 
The diplomat's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Posts: 1,285
NASA wants to develop Space Plane to replace Shuttle
------------
NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe announced plans for the Orbital Space Plane before space shuttle Columbia came apart over Texas and killed seven astronauts on February 1. But the tragedy has added a powerful incentive to find a cheaper, simpler and more dependable way to ferry astronauts between the space station and Earth.
-----------
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/0....ap/index.html

You can see 4 artist drawings of possible concepts.

I sure hope this becomes reality soon.
__________________
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
The diplomat is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 19:56   #2
Ted Striker
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
This seems like a smart idea.

Let the rockets put the heavy payloads into space

Shuttle people back and forth with a plane.

Any experiments that need to be done in outer space can be done on the space station

The shuttle is old and its one size fits all mission is outdated.
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln

Mis Novias
Ted Striker is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 19:58   #3
The diplomat
King
 
The diplomat's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Posts: 1,285
Isn't interesting that two of the concept drawings look just like the Space Plane in CTP2?
__________________
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
The diplomat is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 20:22   #4
Nubclear
NationStatesCall to Power II Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamRise of Nations MultiplayerACDG The Human HiveNever Ending StoriesACDG The Free DronesACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessGalCiv Apolyton EmpireACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameDiplomacyAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG Peace
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
 
Nubclear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
I want a pony
Nubclear is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 21:00   #5
The diplomat
King
 
The diplomat's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Posts: 1,285
Quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
I want a pony
Can't you ask your parents to get you one?
__________________
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
The diplomat is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 21:05   #6
mrmitchell
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG RoleplayCall to Power Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamNationStatesPtWDG2 Tabemono
King
 
mrmitchell's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,394
Diplo -

If this helps us a)do more ISS work, b)colonise the moon, or c)land on Mars, then I'm all for it.
__________________
meet the new boss, same as the old boss
mrmitchell is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 22:46   #7
Ned
King
 
Ned's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
This seems like a smart idea.

Let the rockets put the heavy payloads into space

Shuttle people back and forth with a plane.

Any experiments that need to be done in outer space can be done on the space station

The shuttle is old and its one size fits all mission is outdated.
I couldn't have said this any better.

The Shuttle is not going to fly again for several years as it has to undergo a redesign. Why waste the money and time. Put all our resources into this new plane and in parallel develop new heavy rockets that have the potential to take us back to the moon and to Mars. Until we have them, we use the Russian rockets and capablities to support the space station and to repair hubble.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
Ned is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 23:40   #8
Nubclear
NationStatesCall to Power II Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamRise of Nations MultiplayerACDG The Human HiveNever Ending StoriesACDG The Free DronesACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessGalCiv Apolyton EmpireACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameDiplomacyAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG Peace
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
 
Nubclear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat


Can't you ask your parents to get you one?
Nubclear is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 23:52   #9
Dr Strangelove
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dr Strangelove's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: USA
Posts: 3,197
All I can say is good luck! So far I don't think there is yet a fuel available with enough power per pound to allow the construction of a space plane.

OTOH perhaps they could put an engine in a shuttle-like craft that would allow the vehicle to make a powered landing. That would take at least some of the worry out of re-entry. I'm not sure that it would preclude the occurence of an accident like thiis last one, though, since the critical problem was a damaged area of the plane. In order to have avoided this type of calamity they'd have to have somehow de-accelerated the plane to a much lower approach velocity, thereby preventing the build up of heat under the damaged section of the surface.
__________________
"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!
Dr Strangelove is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 23:52   #10
DanS
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Deity
 
DanS's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
While it is not smart in the long run to break up the non-reusable propulsion device and the manned cabin, I think this will fit well right now. Basically, this is a much scaled down shuttle. I very much doubt the $2.4 billion number that they bandy about, though. The contractors want $10 billion to do it.

Maybe the tech will pan out in the next 10 or 20 years for a fully reusable rocket. That should be the ultimate goal. We just tried something similar a little too early and ended up with a flawed Shuttle that costs $500 million a launch.

Edit: While the Delta II is very reliable, it still has a 3% failure rate. People will die in these rockets more than in the Shuttle.
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

Last edited by DanS; September 1, 2003 at 00:20.
DanS is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 00:17   #11
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Space Elevator is the way to go.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 01:32   #12
Odin
DiplomacyNever Ending StoriesApolyton UniversityRise of Nations MultiplayerCiv4 SP Democracy Game
King
 
Odin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Liberal Socialist Party of Apolyton. Fargo Chapter
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Space Elevator is the way to go.
You've been reading Red Mars too much.

It better not be scraped Like that X-thingy they had on the drawing boards a few years back. I am still waiting for NASA to start planing a manned Mars mission and return to the Moon.

NASA NEEDS MORE $$$ NOW!!!
__________________
Nothing to see here, move along: http://selzlab.blogspot.com

The attempt to produce Heaven on Earth often produces Hell. -Karl Popper
Odin is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 02:02   #13
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally posted by Odin
You've been reading Red Mars too much.
I've never read Red Mars (only blue and green)..but towers of Paradise (by Arthur C.) is a great book. Eventually it will be done.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 04:34   #14
:) Smiley
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
:) Smiley's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: hippieland, CA
Posts: 3,781
Don't count on NASA doing nothing. It'll most likely be China, that actually has something to prove by sinking big bucks into space tech.
__________________
Visit First Cultural Industries
There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd
:) Smiley is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 06:10   #15
Proteus_MST
King
 
Proteus_MST's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Yuggoth
Posts: 1,987
Quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
All I can say is good luck! So far I don't think there is yet a fuel available with enough power per pound to allow the construction of a space plane.

OTOH perhaps they could put an engine in a shuttle-like craft that would allow the vehicle to make a powered landing. That would take at least some of the worry out of re-entry. I'm not sure that it would preclude the occurence of an accident like thiis last one, though, since the critical problem was a damaged area of the plane. In order to have avoided this type of calamity they'd have to have somehow de-accelerated the plane to a much lower approach velocity, thereby preventing the build up of heat under the damaged section of the surface.
It may also be possible to simply put the Spaceplane Backpack onto a Boeing, which then carries the Plane to greater Heights, before the Spaceplane itself ignites its Engines and travels on his own Power to Orbit.

Hermes, which was the (by now abandoned) Design for an european Spaceshuttle AFAIK should use this System.

I think it should be possible with todays technologies, as it should only carry Personnel into Space and no further Payload.

Would probably also more Safe than the old Shuttle Design (less Vibrations during Start and Flight, no Rockets which, once ignited cannot be stopped) and also Cleaner for the Environment (as probably less Fuel must be burned)
__________________
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe which strives to produce bigger idiots. - software engineers' saying
So far, the Universe is winning.
- applications programmers' saying
Proteus_MST is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 08:08   #16
Whaleboy
NationStatesAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessMac
Prince
 
Whaleboy's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
I want space wars between Russian/Chinese/American/NK orbital space ships! Free fireworks display... come on!!!
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
Whaleboy is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 08:18   #17
The Mad Monk
Emperor
 
The Mad Monk's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Flyover Country
Posts: 4,659
How 'bout we all just target Northampton with mass drivers, instead?

You'll get fireworks aplenty.
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
The Mad Monk is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 08:22   #18
Mattaba
NationStates
Chieftain
 
Mattaba's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
Isn't interesting that two of the concept drawings look just like the Space Plane in CTP2?
Yeah you're right
Mattaba is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 08:22   #19
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
Hmmm... cash cow for defense contractors? or viable project? I can't decide.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 08:37   #20
Paul Hanson
King
 
Paul Hanson's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Dilbert
Posts: 1,839
Quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
How 'bout we all just target Northampton with mass drivers, instead?

You'll get fireworks aplenty.
Britain thanks you for this idea.
__________________
"Paul Hanson, you should give Gibraltar back to the Spanish" - Paiktis, dramatically over-estimating my influence in diplomatic circles.

Eyewerks - you know you want to visit. No really, you do. Go on, click me.
Paul Hanson is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 00:36   #21
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
Where are the lightweight rocket designs that are going to reduce lift costs by a factor of ten?
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 00:46   #22
Ned
King
 
Ned's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
Quote:
Originally posted by Big Crunch
Where are the lightweight rocket designs that are going to reduce lift costs by a factor of ten?
I agree. We truly need fresh leadership at NASA. Nothing senisble is going to happen unless every top manager is gone.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
Ned is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 05:15   #23
Atahualpa
Spanish CiversCivilization III PBEMPtWDG2 Latin Lovers
Emperor
 
Atahualpa's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: voice of reason
Posts: 4,092
reducing costs isnt part of the american way
Atahualpa is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 19:33   #24
Ned
King
 
Ned's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
Neither, does it appear, is safety.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
Ned is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 21:12   #25
The Andy-Man
Prince
 
The Andy-Man's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tory Party of 'Poly
Posts: 523
what about a magic teleportation device?

And a guy called Scotty
__________________
eimi men anthropos pollon logon, mikras de sophias
The Andy-Man is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 21:25   #26
Lord Merciless
Warlord
 
Lord Merciless's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 249
Just throwing money at NASA won't solve anything. They need something called COMPETITION.
Lord Merciless is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 21:31   #27
Whaleboy
NationStatesAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessMac
Prince
 
Whaleboy's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
Quote:
How 'bout we all just target Northampton with mass drivers, instead?
Nah, there are three liberal Northamptonians on OTF, it would be such a waste!

Target Birmingrad.
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
Whaleboy is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 21:33   #28
Whaleboy
NationStatesAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessMac
Prince
 
Whaleboy's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
What the Americans need for a successful space program is the Soviets.
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
Whaleboy is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 22:14   #29
Ben Kenobi
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II Succession GamesCivilization II Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Ben Kenobi's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 18,269
Space Elevator is the way to go.

__________________
Scouse Git (2) LaFayette and Adam Smith you will be missed
"All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady." - JRR Tolkein
Get busy living or get busy dying.
Ben Kenobi is offline  
Old September 2, 2003, 22:50   #30
Ted Striker
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:03
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
http://www.space.com/businesstechnol..._020327-1.html

Yeah, but what about the space ESCALATOR?!?!

Didn't think of that, did you tough guys?!
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln

Mis Novias
Ted Striker is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team