MSN - Foreign Relations

[Kody]

Kody says:
the real problem would be if the drones get along with the cycon
Kody says:
or would the cycon get along with the drones
Voltaire says:
I know, the CyCon perceived the Drones as the biggest threat following the University
Kody says:
personally I think the pirates are pretty high up there too
Kody says:
they'll probably control most of the inter-continential interaction.
Kody says:
also another thing I'm wondering
Kody says:
remember how buster said the pirates and cycon were neglecting the industrial techs earlier
Kody says:
well it makes you wonder which techs they were pursuing
Kody says:
from what I can see, either they've been going for air power, restriction lifting, or iniative
Kody says:
so now they've leeched those IA off the university
Kody says:
it means the pirates are probably a fair bit ahead in the tech race.
Voltaire says:
How big of a threat can the pirates be?
Kody says:
if they get well established?
Kody says:
I'm speaking now from a theorectical standpoint
Kody says:
as I've never mucked around with the pirates before.
Kody says:
Basically the pirates will get first pick of unoccupied continents.
Kody says:
so it means they'll get more land.
Voltaire says:
true
Kody says:
Also it means during the early years they control when the planetary council gets summoned.
Kody says:
Their bases will be difficult to attack until much later in the tech tree.
Kody says:
They can steal our ships too.
Kody says:
So I would guess unless we get air power significantly before them.
Kody says:
our best bet would be to raise the sea out from under their bases.
Kody says:
In the mean time they would be harassing our shores like crazy.
Kody says:
the problem is even though they have land bases
Kody says:
getting to their land bases will be difficult
Kody says:
also in late game I hear those sea bases get insane amounts of energy and food.
Voltaire says:
Well we must prevent them from forming bases near our lands
Kody says:
while still having decent minerals unlike other factions
Voltaire says:
that is why i proposed earlier in one of our discussions, or it may have been with vev, i forget
Voltaire says:
that when we meet the other factions
Voltaire says:
we define the territorial waters of a nation
Voltaire says:
such as 3 squares from the land
Voltaire says:
the pirates will not like this
Voltaire says:
but the landfaction will
Voltaire says:
since it will pervent the pirates from getting near their lands
Voltaire says:
they can
Kody says:
unfortunately the pirates will determine when the first plantary council will meet.
Voltaire says:
except they will face reprocusions
Voltaire says:
hmm true
Kody says:
from my view point
Kody says:
pirates are the most dangerous faction in the mid game
Kody says:
university will be the most dangerous in the late game
Voltaire says:
That is why I propose we deal with the University now, since we cannot effectivly take on the pirates at the moment and hope to win
Kody says:
however I doubt university will be allowed to grow that long unchecked
Kody says:
however the pirates can't be curbed early
Kody says:
so in my opinion the pirates will be the most dangerous.
Kody says:
if buster wasn't pacted with us. I would say the drones would be the most dangerous.
Kody says:
Since as far as I've seen buster has never lost a game yet.
Voltaire says:
That is something we must take into account late game
Voltaire says:
If we subdue the university the threat from them is gone, and we get their research working for us
Voltaire says:
hopefuly the CyCon can be convinced to join our efforts against the pirates
Voltaire says:
we will keep them happy on the drone issue by stating that we are simply buying time
Voltaire says:
and isolating the drones from other potential allies, such as the pirates
Voltaire says:
therefore we go after the pirates first
Voltaire says:
the drones can be taken care of easely
Kody says:
do you think we will part ways with the drones?
Voltaire says:
a few planet busters here and there and they're gone in one turn
Voltaire says:
if need be
Voltaire says:
eventualy
Voltaire says:
i don't doubt it for a moment
Voltaire says:
as you said the drones are indeed dangerous
Kody says:
you put too much faith in planet busters
Kody says:
vev and I were looking at planet buster defences
Voltaire says:
Yes I'm well aware, if we're going to use planet busters it has to be early
Voltaire says:
and then we ourselves risk retaliation
Kody says:
if the drones get fletch systems, or ODP up then we stand little chance.
Voltaire says:
if we're going to use planet busters, we need the university research power in order to get us both the PB tech as well as the defense tech
Voltaire says:
ah but drone research will not be on par with ours if we have the university onside, or even the cycon
Voltaire says:
there are downsides to this plan
Voltaire says:
it's just an option
Voltaire says:
to consider
Kody says:
the drones will have fairly good tech
Kody says:
in fact I've been reading
Kody says:
apparently drone's in midgame have tech which is on par with morgan and dedire and maybe even cycon
Kody says:
quite simply because they can build crawlers very cheaply
Voltaire says:
hmm that does become problematic
Voltaire says:
but we need some way to deal with the drones, afterall we are in this game for the win
Kody says:
and can terraform those energy parks
Kody says:
I doubt I could beat buster if put against him
Kody says:
not unless there's at least one or more factions also assisting
Voltaire says:
Uni on our side possibly as submissives, and CyCon possibly since they view the Drones as a great threat
Voltaire says:
we may want to pursue such a scenareo
Kody says:
you know you get 25 points per SP
Kody says:
in turn 2137 we'll probably be higher than the data angels
Kody says:
I think people may decide we're the greater threat.
Voltaire says:
points aren't everything
Voltaire says:
and i think that the other players realise that
Voltaire says:
and with our attack on the Uni we may well be perceived as the greater threat
Voltaire says:
so be it
Voltaire says:
i've gotten myself out of worse situations before
Voltaire says:
you've heard of the game Diplomacy?
Kody says:
Personally I would perfer to be true with one faction.
Voltaire says:
I agree
Voltaire says:
but that trust must be our of necessity
Voltaire says:
IMO the CyCon are the best candidates for that
Voltaire says:
since we both view the Drones as a great threat
Voltaire says:
and our alliance would last because we need one another
Kody says:
I've felt a subtle shift of stance towards us, from the cycon.
Voltaire says:
I will need to speak to them, when we meet...
Kody says:
they seem more indifferent towards us in the public forums
Voltaire says:
Well you must take into account the reduced activity in the public forum
Voltaire says:
that may well be the cause
Voltaire says:
we will not know until we speak to them
Kody says:
possibly
Voltaire says:
and also remember
Voltaire says:
alliances are not built on emotions, they may well hate us
Voltaire says:
but if the alliance is rational then they will go along with it
Voltaire says:
what we must ensure is that they always view the alliance with us as favourable to them, and that breaking it would be more costly than keeping it
Kody says:
would they like us to win?
Kody says:
perviously it was the weak hive
Kody says:
maybe they saw us as amaeturs
Voltaire says:
That would have been a mistake on their part, if they indeed did think as such then they are at a loss, never assume your enemy to be weak...
Kody says:
I think someone else in our forum mentioned they didn't want the drones to ecliplise us in the pact.
Voltaire says:
If we are going to have an alliance with them, we will be the senior partner...
Kody says:
the cycon may be the same.
Voltaire says:
Since we will have the Uni by us (hopefuly), thus the research and military might in one.
Voltaire says:
We must offer things to the CyCon to keep them happy.
Voltaire says:
If need be we will give them conquored lands, etc.
Kody says:
I still feel you are being overly optimistic
Voltaire says:
lol
Voltaire says:
Forgive me, I find that statement amusing, I'm anything but an optimist.
Voltaire says:
Though I know where you're coming from.
Kody says:
conquoring the university
Kody says:
you talk as if we already have troops on the way
Voltaire says:
I know, I know, I'm getting ahead of myself, but I've planned for our future diplomatic relations with other factions on that assumption, as well as if we fail.
Kody says:
that's good
Voltaire says:
The dynamics change considerably if we do not take out the university.
Kody says:
I still have hopes for continued good drone relations.
Voltaire says:
An alliance with the CyCon becomes less likely.
Voltaire says:
Since if we pact with the CyCon, the Pirates may seek refuge in the University
Voltaire says:
As do I..
Voltaire says:
We do not need them as enemies.
Voltaire says:
Let me put the University invasion this way...
Kody says:
I personally think the cycon and pirates may decide to join forces permanently if we kill off the university.
Voltaire says:
We have to attempt it, since not doing it is far more dangerous in the long run than doing it.
Kody says:
People will usually try and balance power when caught unexpected
Voltaire says:
How about this, since I have taken all these possibilities into considearion, let me publish a paper on all the possible outcomes of our actions, as well as why IMO attacking the University has the best results
Voltaire says:
This is similar to your administration of the game
Kody says:
I agree with attacking university
Voltaire says:
it is complicated, but when you know the reasons behind it the pieces fall into place
Kody says:
just I don't think the end results are quite as optimal
Kody says:
I think if we are successful, the other two may precieve us as a threat.
Kody says:
so overall our power has not changed
Voltaire says:
its a possibility
Kody says:
however we have removed the long turn risk
Voltaire says:
but you're expecting the CyCon and Pirates to act as rational agents
Voltaire says:
that is not a gurantee
Kody says:
rather I see the university attack as a means of keeping ourselves on par with the power of the other factions.
Kody says:
not as a method of giving ourselves an decisive advantage
Voltaire says:
you're right its not
Voltaire says:
the only way if becomes an advantage is if we exploit it properly
Voltaire says:
idealy
Kody says:
idealy
Voltaire says:
i would rather that we meet the CyCon before we attack
Voltaire says:
then we can get them in on the attack
Voltaire says:
thus they will feel we are acting together
Voltaire says:
and not only out of our interests
Kody says:
okay
Kody says:
we will see how everything pans out
Voltaire says:
if we keep the university as a puppet, we must ensure that the cycon get a part of the rewards
Voltaire says:
otherwise they will see our plans for what they are
Voltaire says:
lol
Voltaire says:
sadly
Voltaire says:
when it comes to politics
Voltaire says:
the only way to see if you're right
Voltaire says:
is to try it out
Kody says:
I know
Kody says:
which is why I usually stick with loyalty
Kody says:
rather than poltitics
Voltaire says:
Theoreticaly speaking loyalty and honesty are the best policies, from a game theory perspective
Kody says:
theoretically
Kody says:
actually politics are more powerful in some cases
Kody says:
but the gamble is much bigger
Voltaire says:
except the problem lays in the fact that someone, if not us, will betray another
Voltaire says:
true
Kody says:
this is a dipolmancy game, so I'm not going to argue too much against playing all the other factions off each other.
Kody says:
that strategy does mean a joint victory becomes very unlikely.
Voltaire says:
if we can guarantee a permipact with someone a join victory would be better since it carries less risk
Voltaire says:
except thus far we have not guaranteed such a pact
Kody says:
*nod*
Kody says:
I'll ask buster again after we've done our SP thingy
Voltaire says:
alright

[Jamski]

/me would prefer to stay loyal to the Drones.

Consider our goals of bringing a socialist paradise to the world.

Anyway, we have to consider the Uni to be the bigger threat than the Drones in the long run. I would rank Archaic slightly higher than Buster, and the Uni is a really strong faction. The Pirates need not concern us, as although they can get masses of food, and energy, they will be short on minerals for quite a long while - and consider that their colony pods and formers will cost a lot more than ours. The Cycon, on the other hand, are the great unknown... we cannot predict how they are playing, or with whom they will ally.

-Jam

[Voltaire]

I agree with Jamski in principle, except that we must consider the possibility that the Drones may become a potential threat, rather than remain a partner in our goals of greater socialism.

That being said, the University does pose the greatest long term threat. Not only because of the fact that in late-game their technological advantage becomes overwhelming, but also because they potential are a destabilizing factor in Planet politics. We currently have 5 human factions, which means that one of them will be the determining factor in any global struggle depending on which side they decide to side. With and the Drones on one side, and the Pirates/CyCon on the other, the University are the third party that can change the balance. Hence securing them for ourselves should be the priority of our foreign policy.

-Voltaire

[Snowflake]

The fact that Drones have not agreed to a perm pact to me seems that they are not committed to us. If we get stronger maybe they'll change. But we need to be awared that it is very likely that they want their own win. And I don't think that it is easy to get rid of them as some massive PB attacks. Buster is known for his empty base techniques agains PBs.

[Kody]

Looks like interesting poltics are going to emerge later.