Hmmmm..... horribly inefficient Thinker game....

[Certhas]

Just very recently I got back into SMAC (classic v4) a bit and after a few test runs the last weeks I came upon a fairly good starting position which turned into paramount greatness in a single marathon session.

Here's a short rundown of the game and a late game savegame, would be glad for comments and hints how to further improve my strategy without sacrificing style (Just read Vels guide and most of the tips therein are just not made for me, and I just don't like crawling as the main ressource income):

Thinker, huge map, huge ocean, slow tech progress, blind research.

I started on my own island, snapped the terraforming wonder and shaped it, with a single tall mountain line going north south, creating green fields to the west and arid forest cities to the east (production powerhouses par excellence past treefarm).
The gaians were to the north, and all around my island were a couple of other islands they would eventually occupy.
I quickly allied with Deidre and that alliance lasted right towards the end of the game. Most time throughout the game Sparta was up ahead by a margin and then Deidre and I together at second place.
By the time seawarfare became a real option most of the islands around me were occupied by Deidre effectively shielding my little mainland from all agressors.
I managed to completely get rid of all fungus on my mainland for a while.

For the time I kept up and slightly in front of the tech race, even though due to my heavy reliance on Gaia alliance Free Market was a big no no. (comperatively small price to pay for being able to almost completely ignore military up to clean reactors)
So by the time the restrictions (population wise) were lifted I was SO ready, and the game took off for me almost ungodly well, my power graph shot straight through the roofleaving everyone else in the dust.
I started to help the Gaians a bit and with a handfull utterly advanced units would just snapp a couple of enemy bases and hand them over to Deidre, can't be bothered with managing them, almost completing my now obsolete "protection belt".
Peace of cake from there on, my tech skyrockets, my capitol reaps in 3 times more tech then the rest of the factions combined.

A quick rundown of the saves:
2101. Starting position.
2247. Beginning to make shape.
2315. Final shape and city layout.
2402. Now we're talking.
2449. Transcendence available now in two turns, money far exceeds the rushing costs at this point, but how far can I take this?
2495. largest cities >80 (with insignificant suplementary crawling), score when transcending from this save ~290% all cities I have are my own founding, all land I occupie is mine and over half of it did I raise from the sea myself.

[Gufnork]

1. Crawlers. Use them. Think about it, a crawler costs 30 minerals. Placing it on a forest to bring in minerals gives you 2 minerals/turn. After 15 turns you're on plus. You played 395 turns. You do the math. You don't have to rely on them, but early on when you're not using all your base squares there's no point in not using them. They can be cashed in for full value later for SPs or prototypes.

2. More bases. I would at a minimum place twice the amount of bases you had on that island. Bases are way too good in SMAC. For one pop you get two workers and more than double the growth of the base that builds it. You had even spaces no base used, what a waste! If you really want a macho science base, let one have a full radius. The rest don't need it.

3. Boreholes. A boreholes produce 6 minerals and 6 energy. That's 12 units. A forest with tree farm and hybrid produce 3:2:2, which is 7 points. Boreholes = good.

4. There's plenty of ocean that's not being used. Use it. Build sea bases near small islands, with boreholes on any land square nearby. Build tidal harness fields and crawl them to your science base.

5. Whoop some AI:s. Best way to expand.

Take what you want to heart, ignore what you don't like. And I'm sure there's even better things to do, but hopefully some of this might help.

[Certhas]

Thanks for the hints. I might go for a more crawler like strategy next time I play.
Realize though that I play with blind tech so crawlers usually only become available to me a bit later then if you play with your eyes wide open.

I know that I'm playing far from the most efficient I could master, as I said, I value style over efficience, therefore I will keep my zero overlap play, with relatively few cities on a hand carved landmass.

(I wouldn't be particularly challenged with bringing up my games efficiency and most likely by now be handily beating transcend, especially reading through the archives of this forums and Vels strategy guide, but it would absolutely bore me.)

I used to expand by conquering one or two nations back in the Civ(II) days but nowadays I absolutely try to avoid conquering bases. I find their layout to be horrible, and can't be bothered to manage them and bring them up to par really.

As for Boreholes, I usually have more of them, yes, but found it not to be neccesary or worth it this time around. Consider that in the end I had to artifically reduce my production in the forest cities anyway to avoid excessive eco damage, and that I built no nessus minig stations at all, while in the science cities (which are my true pride) I find that a well tended sollar collector produces 2 food and 5 energy (with 4 echelon mirrors around) the 2 food lead to two more population with the food sats lead to two more energy from the energy sats means I get 7 energy as well minus the eco damage.

Of course only much later in the game, but that is what this style of play is about, perfecting your late game phase. That said had I been under more pressure to keep up with the others in the midgame and to produce more military I likely would have built a couple of boreholes. they are nice for midgame.

As for the ocean, I always find water bases to be much oif a hassle and the amount you get out of them to be relatively low. Nevermind they are suspectible to quicker attacks/harder to defend for a builder type. Time for a reevaluation there you think? (the tidal harnesses crawled to the science city are an idea I ABSOLUTELY like and will definately try next time around).

This are all good and interessting hints you bring but they don't resonate well with what I intend, the question that kinda remains: Do you or anybody else know of strategies or players particular to this playing style of mine or am I alone with playing around such luxuries as zero overlap and elegant city placement of all cities (and I mean it) polished to the max?

[Jac de Molay]

As for the ocean, I always find water bases to be much oif a hassle and the amount you get out of them to be relatively low. Nevermind they are suspectible to quicker attacks/harder to defend for a builder type. Time for a reevaluation there you think? (

Sea bases do have their uses, especially if you build Planetary Transit. Size 3 bases, situated around your continent make an excellent layer of surveillance and defense. Im playing as Morgan, and crank out a bunch near my home base that produce mucho energy from the get-go, as well

A size 1 sea base is a little tough to get going (Sea formers seem a little expensive considering their overall utility). But still worth it to me if positioned correctly.

[Gufnork]

Well, I avoid sea bases as long as there's land to build on. But if there's no more land to expand on and you've got fusion reactors they're quite useful. Especially if you can get a couple of boreholes in it's radius (which will be useful even in late game).

As for strategy, I did play that way once. But it's not much you can do when playing that way, the only change in strategy is which facility to build in which order. The only thing you're lacking is early crawling and harnessfields, after that you've mastered it.

[HeymlicH]

Originally posted by Gufnork
1. Crawlers. Use them. Think about it, a crawler costs 30 minerals. Placing it on a forest to bring in minerals gives you 2 minerals/turn. After 15 turns you're on plus. You played 395 turns. You do the math. You don't have to rely on them, but early on when you're not using all your base squares there's no point in not using them. They can be cashed in for full value later for SPs or prototypes.

2. More bases. I would at a minimum place twice the amount of bases you had on that island. Bases are way too good in SMAC. For one pop you get two workers and more than double the growth of the base that builds it. You had even spaces no base used, what a waste! If you really want a macho science base, let one have a full radius. The rest don't need it.

3. Boreholes. A boreholes produce 6 minerals and 6 energy. That's 12 units. A forest with tree farm and hybrid produce 3:2:2, which is 7 points. Boreholes = good.

4. There's plenty of ocean that's not being used. Use it. Build sea bases near small islands, with boreholes on any land square nearby. Build tidal harness fields and crawl them to your science base.

5. Whoop some AI:s. Best way to expand.

Take what you want to heart, ignore what you don't like. And I'm sure there's even better things to do, but hopefully some of this might help.

1. don't use crawlers. This is almost cheating.

2. You don't need more bases.

3. Boreholes. Ummm ... yes

4. the same as 2.

5. No. fight the AI's to get rid of strong enemies, but it's definitely not a good way to expand.

[HeymlicH]

Originally posted by Certhas
(I wouldn't be particularly challenged with bringing up my games efficiency and most likely by now be handily beating transcend, especially reading through the archives of this forums and Vels strategy guide, but it would absolutely bore me.)

Transcend is a different story. You will have to change alot. Try it.

[Curiosity]

Originally posted by HeymlicH
2. You don't need more bases.

I'd rather have a base than a finger.