RAH rules VI: No Spamming!

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, I don't use the hutfinder, always found it to be a chore, and a little more challenging without.

If rah needs the hutfinder to keep up, who am I to say otherwise?

[Caesar Jon]

Well said RAH! It is always refreshing to read a post that is well worded and not condescending towards others. I will always play in games with you AS LONG as hutfinder is NOT allowed.

[Deity Dude]

This is just my opinion:

I think the default should be no-hut finder and IF it is going to be used it be specifically mentioned to all of the players.

I say this for 2 reason:

1) I think from the discussions above, the majority of the current players in RAH's games are against it.

2) And this is the most important reason. Hut finder is something that no one would expect to be in unless they were a member of this group and told ahead of time.

RAH, how many times in the last few weeks have we been short on players and I go to MSN or Yahoo and get someone to play. I can honestly say that none of them, or just about anybody outside of this group for that matter, has ever heard of it or expects anything like it to be in a game. Even Jon played countless games in the group without even knowing about it.

IF it becomes the "default" al newcomers to the group won't be aware of it and therefore be at a disadvantage. If we do take the time to explain it, it always comes off sounding unfair, even if it isn't.

I think the default should be no hut finder and if someone wants to use it, it should be announced before the game to all players and voted on.

Having said that, like I always say in this thread, these are RAH's rules and when in Ferretown do as the Ferrets do.

[biru biru]

one of you guys hook me up with 'hut finder'?

thanks!
br

[rah]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=76956

[Deity Dude]

Biru Biru:

Just so you know - Hut Finder is considered illegal in Liga and most other games. I suggest that before using it in any game you ask all players ahead of time so that there are no misunderstandings.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Deity Dude
2) And this is the most important reason. Hut finder is something that no one would expect to be in unless they were a member of this group and told ahead of time.

That's why we tell all new players to read the Rah rules thread, because it covers all the rules being used, including the extension of Oracle and other such things

[Deity Dude]

Yes but when a new player is drafted 5 mins before the game starts they don't often have time to read and digest a 6 page thread.

[biru biru]

Originally posted by Deity Dude
Biru Biru:

Just so you know - Hut Finder is considered illegal in Liga and most other games. I suggest that before using it in any game you ask all players ahead of time so that there are no misunderstandings.

Of course I consider myself a good sportsman. Appreciate the link though, and downloading next for my own curiosity/civ collection/appropriate use (aka everyone else is using it, and declared as such).

[rah]

Originally posted by Deity Dude
Yes but when a new player is drafted 5 mins before the game starts they don't often have time to read and digest a 6 page thread.

It's in the first post less than halfway through. It takes about 30 seconds to get to. It's right after no city bribe.

Your personal bias against it is showing.
Do you ask people if black clicking is allowed before any game. I doubt it. That's what official rules sets are for. If I'm playing a liga game, I won't use it. I know of no other rules sets that are widely known. So unless it's discussed prior to the game, (and I have agreed not to use it on occasion), I'm going to continue to use it. If you're going to agree to a rules set, I think you owe it to the other players to read it before playing.

[Deity Dude]

You are definitely right I do have a personal bias against it (as do most players )

Actually there are alot of rules that are generally accepted (no City bribe, No Great Wall for example). This is the only group I know of that uses Hut Finder.

Thats all good and fine, they are "RAH's rules" afterall. Regardless I don't use it. I tried it a couple times and it just doesn't seem right to me. When I play against you and Ming I just look at your use of Hut Finder as your "home-court" advantage.

[rah]

Most players have seemed nuetral about it. You may color that as you wish.

I wasn't talking about individual rules, I was talking about published rules sets. So your comment isn't really relevant.

Whether you use it or not is unimportant, it's whether it's allowed or restricted by the rules set used. I have always abided by the rules set agreed upon.

But I will say, that when in a game where hut finder is not allowed, I use my old charts which in my opinion gives me a greater advantage because most others don't have them. At least with hut finder, everyone has access to the same tool to level the playing field.

But many may not agree with this

[Ljube]

Hut finder + black clicking ensure that you know all. I just hope people are not using either on their turns.

[atawa]

Originally posted by rah

As ming says, most of this is known to memory or through charts for the die hards. BUT, even with the charts it takes a more than one hut to determine the pattern and this is the main strength of hut finder.

Not realy, the formula stays the same after all, you just have to calculate it yourself.

Originally posted by DD

Hut Finder is considered illegal in Liga and most other games. I suggest that before using it in any game you ask all players ahead of time so that there are no misunderstandings.

Erm, last time I looked at the rules it was allowed

As for the MSN/2x2x crowd, nowadays its mostly islands or archgames where hutfinder is less important, only on vast continents does it realy makes a difference.

But most of us knew with grasslands to mine before hutfinder was even invented anyway. (Although using setts for anything but roads and more cities is rarely done in 2x2x, I'm one of few who mine specials and hillcities)

I dont realy care either way, just let me know b4 we start.

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by atawa


Erm, last time I looked at the rules it was allowed

Well unfortunately I don't speak German so I can't even read those rules. When talking to players in liga, most players that I talked to had not even heard of it.

Like you said, it really doesn't matter that much because the patterns are known. I just think its bad enough with built-in exploits (black clicking, etc) that we don't have to include add-on programs to make the problem worse. I personally don't use any of them and if I win I know I beat the odds.

[Deity Dude]

OK, here is one for the rulemakers. Suppose we start a game with 4 players, then one drops and never comes back. Can we still build the Great Wall?

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by rah
But I will say, that when in a game where hut finder is not allowed, I use my old charts which in my opinion gives me a greater advantage because most others don't have them. At least with hut finder, everyone has access to the same tool to level the playing field.

But many may not agree with this

I've come around to Rah's way of thinking on this. I used to be dead set against Hutfinder, but that was really because I was a Mac user and had no access to the software. But I have a PC now. Add to that the fact that I'm too damned lazy to draw up charts, and Hutfinder starts to look pretty good.

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit


I've come around to Rah's way of thinking on this. I used to be dead set against Hutfinder, but that was really because I was a Mac user and had no access to the software. But I have a PC now. Add to that the fact that I'm too damned lazy to draw up charts, and Hutfinder starts to look pretty good.

WIMP

[-Jrabbit]

I guess I could ask Rah to photocopy or scan his charts for me...

Actually, doesn't matter. I have fun either way.

[rah]

Refering to DD's original question, I have no problem in a four man game where a person drops and a human builds the GW for a few reasons. One, it could already be built before the player drops so I don't see much difference. And more importantly, the AI will just build it and force peace treaties, walk up and bribe your cities. An annoyance I can do without.

[Ming]

In addition... if you happen to be the "lucky" guy next to the now AI player, it might be useful to build GW to protect against the single elephant attack per turn

[Blaupanzer]

Single elephant attack per turn? What does that mean? Is this another exploit?

[Ming]

It means the AI is stupid, and will continue to send a single unit against you each turn until the end of the time instead of waiting and building up a larger and more impactful army. The AI is truly stupid in Civ II

[TCO]

Hutfinder is wrong. So is blackclicking.

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by TCO
Hutfinder is wrong. So is blackclicking.

I'm with you, but unfortunately I use it now just to keep up with the other guys. I really only use it the first few turns to try and find a good starting spot. After that it is a huge chore.

As for black clicking - I don't do it.

[TCO]

Seen Makeo around?

[rah]

I only usually use hutfinder at the start also, after that I forget about it.

I usually only blackclick by accident, with the exception if I'm getting ready to settle a city away from my home area that has a whale in reach, I sometimes blackclick to see if a city is already using it.

[SmartFart]

Originally posted by TCO
Seen Makeo around?

No, but I would like to. Is he stil alive?

[jolburke]

"... clearing settlers of work every turn to double their efficiency. "

Would someone please explain how this works?

[rah]

Before your turn ends just click on it. This clears what they're currently doing. On the next turn assign it to continue the task. They'll complete the task in half the time. I can't remember for sure but I think this was only effective in 2x production, but it's been a while since I played.