Research pointless above Monarch Level

Turrosh Mak · September 3, 2003, 16:26

I was wondering if I should even bother trying to research in emperor/diety level games. The AI seems to research so much faster than me. Would I be better served turning tech spending off past ancient era and relying on diplomacy/cash to stay in the tech race?

vmxa1 · September 3, 2003, 17:48

In a word, yes. Not like you would at other levels, though. I tend to try for certain tech at a 10 or 20% rate in the early game. It depends on many things. Do I sart with Alphabet? Am I going to take a shot at the GL?
Do I have any luxs in my area? If I have only 1, I will take a differnet tack. I will make more units and cities/camps, since I will be hard pressed to keep citizens happy. How are the huts treating me?
I would look for a tech path that may be less traveled, to do some trading, if I have some contacts or expect to soon. Later I may have to do research at a high rate, it is just so fluid.
I do not expect to hold my own or exceed them until about the ToE for the most part. I mean at emperor I have had super starts, where I could get out a running start, but it is not common.

dexters · September 4, 2003, 00:56

This is one area of Civ3 and previous civ games I'm not comfortable with.

I believe in my hearts of hearts not researching and using human intelligence and superior trading and arbitrage skills to swindle the AI out of techs is against the spirit of the higher difficulty, which was meant to be more difficult with the assumption that players still stick by the way they played in the lower levels, more or less.

But... people do it.

Perhaps in Civ4, they can do away with the variable AI bonuses altogether, which is always open to human exploitation... I thank God unit trading is not enabled, or we likely would have a hundred threads on how to get the AI to make units for us while we just sit back and buy them.

Gufnork · September 4, 2003, 03:44

I buy techs from the AI if I'm behind in the tech race, I research if I'm on top. No matter what difficulty. It's not an "exploit" or anything. It's just that you won't be on top in emperor/deity early, which means I'll always buy. In lower levels you're dominant, in higher levels you're everyones *****. It requires different play styles, live with it.

Mountain Sage · September 4, 2003, 07:08

Good question, and an ambigous reply.
On my latest game (AU209, still going on), I researched at 80-100% only some specific techs for trading (Literature, Monotheism, Currency and the Republic). This enabled me to trade these techs for others. In between, I put science to 0 and cashed in. Then I bought some techs, but always on a gold per turn basis (I feel paranoid with Carthage, Japan and the Ottomans on the same continenet as me).
Now I am in the early Middle Ages and the tech leader (2 techs). I plan to research Gunpwder in the southern branch, then, as we will be contacted most likely by the other civs, go for the 'north branch' and especially all the 'useless' techs (music theory etc.). These will be exchanged for the more 'useful' ones.
So, you see, my quick answer is 'it depends'.

vulture · September 4, 2003, 08:17

You don't so much rely on buying techs as on finding good trades. Try and get lots of contacts early, preferably before the AI civs have too much contact with each other (it increases your sales power). It's not always possible, but is worth going for.

Try and research expensive techs slowly. How well this works depends on the map size, but particularly on bigger maps, researching an expensive tech in 40 turns at minimal science spending will be just as quick as doing it full steam. Researching the cheaper techs is less worth the effort - you can trade for them once you have a nice expensive one. Alphabet is a great starting tech (goes with the commercial trait), since not only is it
worth a lot in trades, but you can research writing straight away, and be pretty much certain to get it after the 40 turns as the only person with the tech. It's not the only option. You need to look at which techs you can research, and know which are the expensive ones, and which ones they AIs tend to research.

You also need to understand the AIs pricing rules. If you can only buy a tech off a single civ, you have to pay double the price for it, which often isn't worth it. But if you are selling, you get the double price benefit (so being the only one with writing can net you 3 or 4 cheaper ancient era techs if they are known to lots of civs). If you have two groups of civs that don't have contact with each other, you can get the monopoly price twice over.

If you have to buy a tech, befor you commit, look at every civ you have contact with. Find who else has the tech, and who will offer the best price (usually commercal civs, although sometimes you will find that your world map is more valuable to someone else, so buying from them costs you less gold). Look at who needs which techs. Plan where you buy and sell carefully, because buying or selling from/to the wrong civ can leave you with one tech less at the end of the trading. Be prepared to resell techs cheaply - buying a tech for 200 gold isn't so bad if you can resell it 5 times for 30 gold each, and trade it for another tech.

So short answer: research wisely. Start of researching slowly, but know when you have to start upping the pace. Make contacts. Learn how to rob the AI blind in the trading game. Trading, rather than research, is the key to keeping up with the AI on emperor and deity, but you also have to do some research to give you something to trade with sometimes.

Master Zen · September 4, 2003, 21:47

Quote:

Originally posted by vulture
So short answer: research wisely. Start of researching slowly, but know when you have to start upping the pace. Make contacts. Learn how to rob the AI blind in the trading game. Trading, rather than research, is the key to keeping up with the AI on emperor and deity, but you also have to do some research to give you something to trade with sometimes.

I think you've hit it right on the mark. On deity it's a must to actually check the tech market each turn to see who has who and adjust your research and trade objectives correspondingly (and to sell your map each turn too). Yes it's burdensome but no other way that I know of...

Gufnork · September 5, 2003, 03:15

Nonsense. I generally don't trade at all until everyone has hit the middle age or in the case of the great library, until it's become obselete. I don't need the ancient era techs, I'm busy building settlers. If I wait until I need the tech, costs goes down. Plus, every turn I don't buy a tech is a turn the AI goes without money.

dexters · September 5, 2003, 03:16

I think the very idea of one universal killer strategy to employ is a bit of a misnomer.

It all depends on a variety of variables. A strong start vs. a weak start would require vastly different strategies even if the aim in both cases is to rob the AI blind with shrew trades. And that's just one variable.

realpolitic · September 5, 2003, 17:48

Quote:

Originally posted by dexters
I think the very idea of one universal killer strategy to employ is a bit of a misnomer.

It all depends on a variety of variables. A strong start vs. a weak start would require vastly different strategies even if the aim in both cases is to rob the AI blind with shrew trades. And that's just one variable.

go 0 -10% or one scientist in the begining. Buy techs when cheap & useful. By about the Industrail age, you'll be loaded with acash, and able to go 100% science.

Paddy · September 6, 2003, 06:20

There are some interesting strategies here that should be fun to try out soon.

Thanks