Europe, US Publics Diverge Drastically On Foreign Policy

DanS · September 4, 2003, 00:12

The German Marshall Fund did an interesting survey of public attitudes in Europe and the US regarding foreign policy. Here are the results.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2003Sep3.html

Here is a quote showing that Europe is increasingly full of pacifists, while the martial spirit is alive and well in the US...

Quote:

The poll found that Europeans and Americans shared similar views in identifying the biggest threats to global security: international terrorism, North Korea's and Iran's access to weapons of mass destruction , Islamic fundamentalism and the Arab-Israeli conflict. But they sharply disagreed over the use of military force to deal with global threats. About 84 percent of Americans said war may be used to achieve justice, while only 48 percent of Europeans agreed.

Here's the money shot...

Quote:

Craig Kennedy, president of the German Marshall Fund, said the results suggested that European anger, while focused on the Bush administration, went deeper. "There is a Bush style that really does drive Europeans up a wall," Kennedy said. "But would it go away if a Democrat took over the White House tomorrow? Frankly I don't think so. The poll suggests that Bush's policies are pretty well in sync with American public opinion. If you had a Democrat, they would still have to work basically within those kinds of public constraints. The policies that annoy most Europeans would still be there."

And here's a funny one. While the US has been accused by some on Apolyton as wanting to be a superpower on the cheap (you know who you are), Europe is riven with an even larger contradiction on this score...

Quote:

The poll reported that Europeans want to see the European Union become a superpower but said they wanted it to cooperate with, rather than compete against, the United States. At the same time, a sizeable majority of Europeans do not want the EU to drastically increase defense spending.

And those Germans can never be trusted with power.

Quote:

The biggest internal change from last year's survey occurred in Germany, the poll found. A year ago Germans seemed uncertain about their global role and about whether Europe or the United States was their natural partner. That ambiguity has faded, with 82 percent of those surveyed saying that Germany must play an active part in world affairs, and 70 percent believing that the EU should become a superpower -- sizeable increases in both figures.

Let the games begin!

Dauphin · September 4, 2003, 23:38

Quote:

"But would it go away if a Democrat took over the White House tomorrow? Frankly I don't think so. The poll suggests that Bush's policies are pretty well in sync with American public opinion. If you had a Democrat, they would still have to work basically within those kinds of public constraints. The policies that annoy most Europeans would still be there."

The phrase "Its not what you say, its the way that you say it" springs to mind. Bush lacks the eloquence to persuade Europeans. Find a new Pres who is of the same mind, but a sweet talker, and things would be different I'm sure.

Nubclear · September 4, 2003, 23:43

We need a European Superpower (a democratic superpower to rival the US), however I highly doubt we'll ever get one.

It'll probably be China, however the word "democratic" does not come to mind.

GePap · September 4, 2003, 23:45

It is easier for Americans to sit at home and talk of war than it is for most people who happen to have much better first hand knowledge of what political violence actually does. I would guess that worldwide (since the US and western europe account for what, 12-15% of humanity?)the numbers would come closer to Europe's than the US's. And 9/11 did not change this much.

MrFun · September 4, 2003, 23:46

As usual, Europeans do not seem to realize that American leaders are quite naturally, destined to rule the world.

Great Britain doesn't even realize the reality that it's a colony of the United States, for instance.

Dauphin · September 4, 2003, 23:50

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun
Great Britain doesn't even realize the reality that it's a colony of the United States, for instance.

Protectorate, not a colony.

MrFun · September 4, 2003, 23:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Crunch

Protectorate, not a colony.

If that makes you feel better . . . .

Ned · September 5, 2003, 00:58

I agree that Europe will have to get over its pacifism if it truly wants to be a superpower. Today, it can influence events primarily by being obstuctionists at the UN. If they had real power, they could take a leadership role in solving the worlds problems, such as terrorism. I believe a superpower EU would have been there with us in Iraq because it would not have felt the need to be obstructionist.

Napoleon I · September 5, 2003, 01:38

A European superpower. riiight

The time of the superpowers is rapidly passing - and the most important thing assaulting it are the multinational corporation structures, based mostly in the US. Europe should look to preserving its own economic viability, and that is a hell of task, because US can bring resourses and labor from all over the world.

No offense to Euro's but you might be in for some tough times, mates

Dauphin · September 5, 2003, 01:45

Europe's future looks peachy. A succesfully operating socio-economic block that nobody pays much attention to. It'll be great.

Nubclear · September 5, 2003, 01:56

By then, I'll live in Logan, Utah Province, Sino American Autonomous Region (SAAR), China.

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HershOstropoler · September 5, 2003, 02:07

"About 84 percent of Americans said war may be used to achieve justice, while only 48 percent of Europeans agreed."

"War" and "Justice" have each quite a different meaning for us than for you.

Ted Striker · September 5, 2003, 02:09

That's cause you guys like killing each other for fun.

HershOstropoler · September 5, 2003, 02:20

Put that in the past tense, and you have a point.

Ted Striker · September 5, 2003, 02:23

Not really

The Balkans are pretty much always up to no good unless someone is putting the smackdown on them. Then there is Chechnya.

HershOstropoler · September 5, 2003, 02:27

Yeah, but what about your civil war in Columbbia?

Ted Striker · September 5, 2003, 02:28

What about your 100 year ongoing civil wars in Africa?

HershOstropoler · September 5, 2003, 02:30

Africa is in Europe?

Nubclear · September 5, 2003, 02:32

Ted Striker · September 5, 2003, 03:01

Columbia is in North America?

Ted Striker · September 5, 2003, 03:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

What are you laughing at Chechen baby killer?

Sikander · September 5, 2003, 03:10

Quote:

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Africa is in Europe?

Same difference.

notyoueither · September 5, 2003, 03:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
That's cause you guys like killing each other for fun.

Quote:

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Put that in the past tense, and you have a point.

That is the massive dividing line, isn't it?

Can't say I blame you.

HershOstropoler · September 5, 2003, 04:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Columbia is in North America?

Then start shouting USNA! USNA! USNA!

HershOstropoler · September 5, 2003, 04:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Sikander

Same difference.

You mean the swallows are the same?!?

Sikander · September 5, 2003, 04:50

Quote:

Originally posted by HershOstropoler

You mean the swallows are the same?!?

Well they can be different, but obviously you aren't going to team an African swallow with a European swallow without seeing a few coconuts floating in the channel.

Combat Ingrid · September 5, 2003, 05:22

Btw, using Chechnya to define Europe is like using Texas to define the US

Kropotkin · September 5, 2003, 07:12

On the issue of pacifism:
Roland has already mentioned the issue above. I would like to take it further as some people around here (you should know who you are) seems to mix up pacifism with the opinion that war cannot be used to achieve justice. Pacifism is in this context used as an insult. As for example DanS is: "Here is a quote showing that Europe is increasingly full of pacifists, while the martial spirit is alive and well in the US...".

As for the survey: I'm quite sceptical of this kinds of surveys. First off, there's a great risk that the results are influenced by the questions. Second, the survey is made on 8,000 people in eight countries. The article doesn't say much about how those people have been chosen but I think there's reasons to take the figures with a huge grain of salt.

dannubis · September 5, 2003, 08:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker

What are you laughing at Chechen baby killer?

I hope your now joking right ?
Otherwise, i can think of a few more examples in which this sentence applies to you ...

MikeH · September 5, 2003, 08:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Crunch The phrase "Its not what you say, its the way that you say it" springs to mind. Bush lacks the eloquence to persuade Europeans. Find a new Pres who is of the same mind, but a sweet talker, and things would be different I'm sure.

Absolutely. Clinton was quite popular here because he understood how to say stuff to the international community, his international policies weren't really all that different to Bush's (pre 9/11).

To a lot of us Euros listening to Bush (and even more so some of his cronies) is a bit like having someone urinate on you and tell you you should be enjoying it.