Forestation of the desert, and general terraforming thread

[chequita guevara]

Deserts are beautiful.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Deserts are beautiful.

I agree, but if I had to live around one I might tink otherwise. Maybe they can have desert preserves.

[MrFun]

Just don't get PETA all bent out of shape over those poor scorpions . . . . .

[chequita guevara]

Give it a rest.

[Sprayber]

I just though that if the people of the Middle East had trees, they could go on picknicks and play under the trees. Maybe it would relieve some of the pent up tension that plagues the region. What do you all think?

[chequita guevara]

Just cuz you have trees doesn't mean you want to go outside. Consider Florida.

[Az]

My understanding is that the population was limited in late bronze (after being substantial in early or middle bronze - i forget which) The area was forested in late bronze, and the forests were cleared and the terraces built in early iron - the land was agricultural throughout the israelite period - see tanach, as well as archaelogical sources - all those judean, ephraimite villages, etc were in the hill country. The low country was the home of the canaanite cities and commercial agriculture - the hill country was the self-sufficient israelite farmers with their relatively egalitarian social code (and of course when David conquered the low country he led to a more hierarachical royal society, opposed by prophets with roots in the old israelite hill country tradition)

IIRC, the terraces were built earlier and then something happened in late bronze that caused a steep decline in the population of the area. Then the population levels rised again, and a hundred or so years later, the first Israelite monarchy emerged.

Once again, I'd like to stress that if you look at culture, and pottery, most chances are that most of the people calling themselves the Israelites later on, during the 1st millenium BC were around all along, and stories like the exodus from Egypt, and earlier, the arrival from mesopotamia tell story of only a part of the population. It is also possible that the Egyptians indeed took many of the population as slaves down to egypt.

but, we're diverging from the topic.



On the topic of the preservation of the desert:

Believe me, the desert areas are hardly endangered. IIRC, more than 50% of Israel is deserted for example, so we've got plenty to work on. The issue is even more important in the area of Northen Africa.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Just cuz you have trees doesn't mean you want to go outside. Consider Florida.

That's because you got all those tall skinny things with nothing until you get up to the top. You need real trees like Oaks, Maples, and Pines, and Magnolias.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Give it a rest.

We can't forget the scorpions!

[Japher]

Scorpions can live in forests too

[Az]

don't you dare diss palm trees! they're great!!

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Azazel
don't you dare diss palm trees! they're great!!

For what exactly?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Japher
Scorpions can live in forests too

That's just propaganda to mislead the PETA fanatics -- or maybe the PETA fanatics know sh*t about what they're blabbering about?

[Japher]

or maybe the PETA fanatics no sh*t about what they're blabbering about?

don't you dare diss palm trees! they're great!!

Worhtless fact:

Each year More people are killed by coconuts falling out the tree than are killed by sharks.

[MrFun]

wow -- two laugh posts from Japher in one day


Who am I, and what I have done with myself?

[realpolitic]

Forests reduce the CO2. Based on that alone, they're a good idea. It's been this summer.

[Az]

Worhtless fact:

Each year More people are killed by coconuts falling out the tree than are killed by sharks.

That's indeed a worthless fact. You want me to bring you car crash statistics.





MrFun: you're getting better, ALL THE TIME.

[Provost Harrison]

"I remember when all this was fields...now it's all forest!"

We've got barely any forest left over here now, although this island used to be covered in it...there should be more replanting as we certainly have no problem regarding food output and it makes great places to walk. I feel very at ease in a forest...

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Azazel
[q]

MrFun: you're getting better, ALL THE TIME.

thanks for the sarcasm smart-ass

[Odin]

2000 years ago the area around the Mediterranian was wetter then it is know, it was open woodland, not the semi-arid scrubland it is today.

BTW, Europe needs its forests back, especially in the UK! I want BIG yews and cork oaks over there again!

[Urban Ranger]

Deserts are alive

They do expand and eat away at previously habitable land, so it is a good idea to ring them with trees to prevent desertification. However, doing so is not enough. You have to bring in comprehensive measures to prevent such things as excess draining of ground water and deforestation.

[Az]

2000 years ago the area around the Mediterranian was wetter then it is know, it was open woodland, not the semi-arid scrubland it is today

Why people always forget about the southern parts of the med? We're worthy of mentioning, too.


UR: ground water doesn't affect desert expansion me thing. aquifers do need to be preserved, no doubt, but that's a different issue.

[Dis]

you can't forest the desert!!

you go ahead and try that in the desert southwest U.S. and see what that gets you.

Dry rivers- that's what.

[MrFun]

Maybe we just need an asteroid to smash into Earth and see what happens.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Azazel

Quote:

Az - you have a bronze age pic of the road to Jerusalem??? Flabbergasting!!!

I was talking about the beginning of the century.

Quote:

End of bronze age - circa 1200 BCE.

yes, and that was approx. the time when the population in the area has significantly dwindled, though the terasses were already constructed on the hills ( which hold on to this very day, and were one of the earliest in the world!! ).

But this is irrelevant. the forestation was more of a dense bush, and not of a dense forest.

VetLegion: in many desert areas, the limited rainfall is actually quite enough to sustain a forest!

this is not the case in the U.S. If rainfall could sustain a forest, we'd have forests!! Look at SW Colorado. The higher elevations do have higher rainfall, thus they already have forests. But lower evlevations in NM and Arizona do not have higher rainfall, and thusly do not have forests.

[Dis]

I'm sorry, but the deserts in the SW U.S. cannot be forested. Even if you drained the Colorado river completely and the Rio Grande.

If we had enough rainfall to support a forest- we'd already have forests The seeds get spread around by the wind and such. They just can't grow in the desert .

What happens is when you get closer to 6000 feet elevation you have more rainfall and you see treess such as bristlecone and pionion pines. Also you can see aspens and such.

The best way to see this is to visit both the Northern and Southern rims of the grand canyon.

[Az]

Not always you have the right species that is suitable for the conditions. Sometimes they have to be imported.

These are facts, dissident. In Israel, many areas, previousy bare, are now covered with forests.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Azazel
UR: ground water doesn't affect desert expansion me thing. aquifers do need to be preserved, no doubt, but that's a different issue.

You sure? Where Iraq is now, you know, was called the Fertile Crescent?

[Vesayen]

I'd just like to note that the last time I went to Israel I planted 20 trees in one o fthose forest-look over the horizion and seeing the ones planted years early growing high in every direction was quite a site.

[chequita guevara]

Should they re-introduce lions to the Mediterranian?