Automated Formers

socrate95 · September 6, 2003, 10:19

Anyone know if there's anything that can be done to make automated formers plant only forests (ie tweak some settings in alpha.txt)?

Kody · September 6, 2003, 10:58

I know you can disable specific kinds of terraforming in the alpha.txt. However I suspect the actual terraforming AI is embedded in the terran.exe.

If you feel like fiddling with what kinds of terraforming are available, do a search for "#TERRAIN" and adjust lines to suit your preferences. Note that this will affect all terraforming rather than just the automatic formers.

Jac de Molay · September 6, 2003, 11:33

Quote:

Originally posted by socrate95
Anyone know if there's anything that can be done to make automated formers plant only forests (ie tweak some settings in alpha.txt)?

I thought there was a menu in the game where you can tweak it. But, I hear it doesn't work anyway as the AI will still have formers plant other stuff.

Jac.

socrate95 · September 6, 2003, 12:14

I'm not worried about the AI's formers. I only worry about my formers. I want them to only plant forests and nothing else. There is a menu in AC, but there is no way to prevent the stupid formers from planting farms, mines and solars.

CEO Aaron · September 6, 2003, 15:49

Yes, autoformers blow goats, unfortunately there's really no way to get around it. I'd like very much if it were possible to fix the AI's terraforming, which is uniformly horrid, but I have a feeling that if the AI were able to terraform well, I would be unable to beat it at Transcend, since they get substantial industry, growth and research bonuses.

Vev · September 7, 2003, 07:47

Put arid land world setting and chances are your formers plonk down forests over those dry squares.

Although chances are that the AI might still stuff things up.

"Hey let's mine that rolling square!"

gwillybj · September 9, 2003, 03:31

Quote:

socrate95 asked:
Anyone know if there's anything that can be done to make automated formers plant only forests (ie tweak some settings in alpha.txt)?
I'm not worried about the AI's formers. I only worry about my formers. I want them to only plant forests and nothing else. There is a menu in AC, but there is no way to prevent the stupid formers from planting farms, mines and solars.

Automation Preferences {Ctrl+A}

On:
__Automated Formers can plant forests.

On or Off:
__Automated Formers can remove fungus.

Off:
__Automated Formers can raise/lower terrain.
__Automated Formers can build condensers, boreholes, etc.
(does that etc. mean farms, mines, solars?)
__Automated Formers can build sensors.
__Automated Formers can build roads and tubes.

CEO Aaron · September 9, 2003, 12:13

Yeah, the problem is that there's no switch that says: Formers CAN'T build farms and Formers CAN'T build Solar Collectors.

HeymlicH · September 20, 2003, 08:07

There is no way. This means, auto formers are useless in most cases. There are some exceptions:

ctrl shift F forces them to remove fungus only. I usually have some of them.

ctrl shift O forces a former to build sensors only

In some cases it makes sense to automate sea formers, since there are not many options for them.

socrate95 · September 20, 2003, 10:48

Yes automated sea formers are excellent. They even raise sea squares for free!

Jac de Molay · September 20, 2003, 16:26

Hmm..did not know that

The only thing auto former do decent is the aforementioned fungus removal, as well as road/magtube building.

socrate95 · September 20, 2003, 17:35

Indeed they do. But make sure to check Automated Formers can raise terrains in the Automated section of Preferences.

Commander Jace · September 29, 2003, 16:56

you shouldn't have to use autoformer later in the game, each former should be specialized into his own individual tasks and have his job completely picked out.

igtenos · September 30, 2003, 09:18

Depends on circumstances. Personally, I like to guide my formers early on to clean up my home territory and (after getting WP) build a few choice Boreholes in the Rocky squares. Once that's done and one of the AI decide it's time to vendetta me because of SE choices or because of my refusal to vendetta someone else (Yang, Miriam, and Santiago love doing this to me) & I start kicking ass, I tend to let the new formers auto-improve the base and use my older formers to do brush up work (IE: More boreholes!) on new territory or plant forests/boreholes on islands and put a bunch of sea bases around them for the mineral boost in the early/mid-game period before Adv. Eco Engineering makes tidal harnesses worthwhile. I usually have enough to deal with having to pummel 2-3 different factions without guiding my formers too.

BTW, one of my favorite custom units are (Super) Drop Formers.

Impaler[WrG] · September 30, 2003, 15:30

I manual virtualy all my terraforming, even when set to do SIMPLE things like remove fungus the formers are idiots, every former set to auto fungus clearing will target the same patch of fungus on the other end of the continent, then they will laboriously move their over a decade and then the whole group will pick a different patch of fungus back on the other end of the continent and laboriosly move back their while ignoring fungus right next to them!!!!

I have had a bit of success with Auto Mag tubes, as they will thus be upgrading your existing road network to tubes without wasting time building mag tubes from scratch in inapropropiate places.

jtsisyoda · September 30, 2003, 19:44

Quote:

Originally posted by gwillybj

__Automated Formers can build condensers, boreholes, etc.
(does that etc. mean farms, mines, solars?)

My guess is that means soil enrichers.

TimeTraveler · October 1, 2003, 01:49

Quote:

Originally posted by jtsisyoda

My guess is that means soil enrichers.

...and echelon mirrors. Did you know that those things when used in a certain way can nearly quadruple the energy gotten from themselves and solar collectors? It's incredible!

JMarshFox · October 1, 2003, 10:11

I always just plant a couple of squares of forest around the base and build tree farms and hybrid forests...

Ecthy · October 2, 2003, 04:46

I used to do automatic formers, but it isn't the same civ feeling.

I like to decide on my own what to do, especially since borehole sites etc. are so sensitively to be planned

Jamski · October 2, 2003, 08:30

If you want to win at SMAC you really MUST manage your formers yourself. The reason the AI does so badly is becasue it has a poor terraforming plan.

-Jam

igtenos · October 2, 2003, 16:46

That and the AI isn't smart enough to double-up formers for big terraforming jobs. But truth be told, I really wouldn't want to see Yang or Miriam build boreholes.... I build at least one for every base I have and seeing the AI build *one* borehole would scare the hell out of me.

Also, the AI sucks donkey because it isn't half as aggressive with its units as the player with the acception of Conventional Missles (GRR), but that's getting off-topic.

gwillybj · October 3, 2003, 00:52

I've seen every one of the SMAC-7 make boreholes. I think the only thing I've never seen any of them do is raise or lower land. It may have happened often and I've just never noticed it.

Mongoose · October 3, 2003, 01:43

They raise land. Matter of fact, the AI raises land without Environmental Economics or the Weather Paradigm....That is, perhaps, the AI cheat I hate the most!

Mead · October 3, 2003, 19:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski
If you want to win at SMAC you really MUST manage your formers yourself. The reason the AI does so badly is becasue it has a poor terraforming plan.

-Jam

That's just one of the reasons that it performs badly.

I think that the inability to mount effective military campaigns, particularly airpower campaigns, is far more crippling for the AI.

Don't forget the AI's inability to conduct diplomacy productively.

Mead

Ecthy · October 4, 2003, 06:24

I've never exploited land raising, how is it? Does it help with energy problems a lot?

Adalbertus · October 4, 2003, 11:50

Ecthy our favourite Ossi,

I usually start land raising to shorten shore line, to place boreholes, or for an energy park (SP, in MP you may not have the time to do the latter). It depends quite a lot on your planning.
I think it was Ned who mentioned that to place a borehole, you shouldn't raise the land around your preferred borehole site but to lower the borehole site. Obvious, but it takes years to figure out

Then, building an energy park, you should always extend a plateau of maximum height. In extreme cases, you can raise more than 50 squares by 1000 m at turn and energy costs of one ...
Your favourite Wessi

igtenos · October 4, 2003, 12:27

Quote:

Don't forget the AI's inability to conduct diplomacy productively.

Amen to that. I've been playing several Thinker difficulty games and keep finding myself vendetta'd by every faction in the game almost without trying.

I'd also add to the complaint list about AI how untrustworthy it is on higher difficulties. I've had cases where the AI offers a truce then a round or two later launches a surprise attack.

Quote:

I've never exploited land raising, how is it? Does it help with energy problems a lot?

I rarely bother raising land unless my main island is extremely small or I have a bunch of little islands I want to connect via land. I personally prefer Sea Formers & Sea Pods for the energy/nutrient bonus while planting Boreholes and Forests on the land territory for the extra minerals.

Mead · October 4, 2003, 12:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
I've never exploited land raising, how is it? Does it help with energy problems a lot?

Yes.

Raise your engery park elevation to over 3000. This will result in max output from the solar and mirrors. A large, well elevated, well located, well protected, and equipped energy park is a beautiful thing.

Mead

Ecthy · October 4, 2003, 14:29

Energy park? is that like a super science city just a city with super enery?

zanthus · October 4, 2003, 16:55

No, its an area outside of a city where you use resource convoys to harvest the energy. (At least I do it this way) That way, you can have one city with income increasing improvements harvest 100s of energy/turn over your whole empire. Then I plant forests in my cities to give the balanced food/energy/mineral ratio. It also helps to cut down on fungus growth by having them outside city radii.