The Recreation Commons - Sixth Floor : Temple of Planet

[Nubclear]

Hey, I never said PRIME function...

[Vev]

Good stuff there Tass. A little bit of text formatting and spacing to make it a little bit more pleasing to the eye.

[Nubclear]

Well, if you would be so kind as to do it since in its present state, it looks pleasent to my eye...

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Hey, I never said PRIME function...

True true. But it still ought to be changed to avoid confusing newbies. Drogue is the forum moderator who has to authorize new members.

[Nubclear]

Newbies probably won't even notice whos authorizing them though. I know I didn't in either case

[GeneralTacticus]

You might want to note in that description that factions don't necessarily vote on everything - governing styles differ, based on factional preference.

[Hercules]

Yes good summary and intro. Some minor points
Just maybe change the SMAC bit to SMAC/X where approriate.

Maybe style those who authorise members as faction co-ordinators/manager rather than leaders as they don't change whereas Governors, Chairpersons, Chancellors/Deans, Fleet Admirals, Prime functions, Head Bee, do.

Each faction can submit, what, up to 10 lines description /promoting themselves.

[Kody]

I figure first a roleplay description of the faction, history goals and stuff would make it sound interesting. Then a few lines that explains what the people should expect when they join your faction (like what is actually happening behind all the roleplay).

I'll write one for my faction when I get around to it.

The idea is we're probably getting lots of lurkers which decide they're not interested because we don't have a nice public face that explains things clearly.

Then we also have people joining certain factions then deciding they don't like that faction's style, so they're quitting and are unable to join a different faction. That's why I suggested actually explaining the activities behind the roleplaying.

Perhaps as one of Tassadar's duties as deputy he could organise the compilation into two posts that will go into a topped signup thread.

I say give factions 2 weeks to come up with their descriptions. We want really good quality with the writing as new members are very important to us.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Your Right on the mark Kody, I my self have been such a Lurker for a long time and would have joined much sooner if the process had been more clearly layed out. The whole Democracy game interests me purly as a Phenomenon in untoo itself (and I like SMAC too). But when I did finaly deside to join up I tried joing the Peace faction thinking they were the PeaceKeepers!!

Tacticus has straitended me out on this though, and after some additional digging I came across the post on this thread that your all refering too and boy I wish it had seen it first. I think I will wait untill these descriptions are written up to deside on my faction.

I have a few more newbie questions that yall might want to answer and include on your upcomming documents.

First off I understand that most of the citizens of a faction dont need to know whats happening in the game inorder to partispate in the role playing or to vote in desision making threads (you can polute the system with totaly uninformed votes just like in a real democracy!!). But if a citizen with no real position in the faction wants to can he get access to any of the saved game files and actualy SEE how his faction is performing?

Asuming the answer is yes to that would you have to have the expantion to be able to open the file without everything crashing? Would downloading the Demo of crossfire alow you to just take a peek at a saved Smacx game file?

Another question how do the leaders of a Faction team actualy physicaly split up their various task? I am under the impression (from stuff I read about the first Democracy game) the that "top dog" of each faction is the one who is actualy entering in all the various comands and build quees and movment comands. And that all the other members of the team are funneling instructions to that leader. Ofcorse their would need to be some way of distributing the save game file to thouse minister so they can make their desisions, how is this done?

How is cheating prevented? what prevents you from turning on the Map editor and at the least taking an unfair look at everyone else? I have never played any multi-player SMAC so I am wondering about how this aplies to ANY PBEM game of Smac.

How fast are the turns progressing now? If 5 different teams of human players must pass the save game file along once each year then if each faction takes 1 day to exicute its turn then the game would pass at the rate of 1 game year every 5 days, thats rather slow aint it, how long do you expect the whole game to take, it should logicaly take longer then the first democracy game so are we comited to spending a minimum of 3 years on this game? This would actualy be kind of interesting, you should be upfront about the expected length of the game so as not to let people get bored.

What kind of Activity level is expected? I am assuming citizens without govement posistion can be as active or inactive as they like. Only once you have a position is anything expected of you.

[Kody]

Your Right on the mark Kody, I my self have been such a Lurker for a long time and would have joined much sooner if the process had been more clearly layed out. The whole Democracy game interests me purly as a Phenomenon in untoo itself (and I like SMAC too). But when I did finaly deside to join up I tried joing the Peace faction thinking they were the PeaceKeepers!!

The issue first was brought up in our faction, as I was asking one of our returning older members what we could do is get new members. They complained they needed a summary of what was going on as it was taking a week to catch up on all the game relevant posts I had made.

Tacticus has straitended me out on this though, and after some additional digging I came across the post on this thread that your all refering too and boy I wish it had seen it first. I think I will wait untill these descriptions are written up to deside on my faction.

Yah, maybe you'll choose the Hive.

I have a few more newbie questions that yall might want to answer and include on your upcomming documents.

First off I understand that most of the citizens of a faction dont need to know whats happening in the game inorder to partispate in the role playing or to vote in desision making threads (you can polute the system with totaly uninformed votes just like in a real democracy!!). But if a citizen with no real position in the faction wants to can he get access to any of the saved game files and actualy SEE how his faction is performing?

Well generally when there is a game decision, the person making the poll should make a summary of all the relevant information and detail the for and against arguments. At least that's what is happening in the Hive.

There was a hacker incident a while back and (at least for the hive) we're careful the password isn't posted in the forum anymore. However, I'm sure if you're interested in contributing to the game the players with the password will give it to you privately. If you are constantly giving useful suggestions you'll probably skyrocket up the ranks. Active participants are at a premium and nobody is going to hold you back if you want to get more involved.

Asuming the answer is yes to that would you have to have the expantion to be able to open the file without everything crashing? Would downloading the Demo of crossfire alow you to just take a peek at a saved Smacx game file?

I know of one other person that converted from smac to smacx with a few extra files. I hear the important file differences aren't really that much. Eg ignore movies, extra pictures, extra sounds.

Another question how do the leaders of a Faction team actualy physicaly split up their various task? I am under the impression (from stuff I read about the first Democracy game) the that "top dog" of each faction is the one who is actualy entering in all the various comands and build quees and movment comands. And that all the other members of the team are funneling instructions to that leader. Ofcorse their would need to be some way of distributing the save game file to thouse minister so they can make their desisions, how is this done?

Well what you've described is what would be ideal. The reality is there's far less participation to allow for that. I don't know how other factions do it. For the hive major decisions are polled. All the minor details are decided by the turn player. Medium important decisions are just decided from having the pre-turn turn chats on MSN and from responses to strategy threads in the private forum. Currently the hive has a separate person for information gathering, as usually the information gathered from other factions doesn't affect the moves in the short run.

How is cheating prevented? what prevents you from turning on the Map editor and at the least taking an unfair look at everyone else? I have never played any multi-player SMAC so I am wondering about how this aplies to ANY PBEM game of Smac.

Well the map editor is disabled for PBEM games. There are other things that can be done that constitute cheating. For the hive the turn player releases the moves made and posts screenshots to a turn update thread. If all factions are doing this, cheating should be picked up by the other members in the faction.

How fast are the turns progressing now? If 5 different teams of human players must pass the save game file along once each year then if each faction takes 1 day to exicute its turn then the game would pass at the rate of 1 game year every 5 days, thats rather slow aint it, how long do you expect the whole game to take, it should logicaly take longer then the first democracy game so are we comited to spending a minimum of 3 years on this game? This would actualy be kind of interesting, you should be upfront about the expected length of the game so as not to let people get bored.

On average I would say the Hive is averaging 16 hours to do each turn. University averages about 26 hours, CyCon averages about 26, pirates seem to average 48 hours, and drones average about 5 hours. So that's about a turn every 5 days. I assume that the players involved in this game are all extremely good, or have really good planning occurring in their forums, so the game should be over earlier than what a normal single player would take. I would guess it would only run 150 years at most, 5 days per turn so upper limit is 2 years.

I agree that over 2 years it could get quite boring if you're in a faction that isn't very active. However, your faction should be attempting to get extra activities going that are related to the game to keep the game interesting. The inter-faction debating is something the hive is trying to setup as we're thinking long term and don't want to lose members from lack of interest.

What kind of Activity level is expected? I am assuming citizens without govement posistion can be as active or inactive as they like. Only once you have a position is anything expected of you.

As much or as little as you like. Currently in the hive, there's more work than we have hands to do, and we're cutting corners already as it is. Like the chairman decided to veto of the recent decisions that needed to be made in the hive. We already had 2 previous polls that were inconclusive, and nobody felt like writing up another summary that would go with the poll.

For the Hive, it's the chairman and turn player with the only critical have to do jobs. The chairman still needs to make important decisions (as the turn player refuses to make them) and direct the hive. The turn player still has to get the turns out so the game keeps running.

[Maniac]

On average I would say the Hive is averaging 16 hours to do each turn. University averages about 26 hours, CyCon averages about 26, pirates seem to average 48 hours, and drones average about 5 hours.

26 hours for the CyCon?? It seems a less lot when I check the last fifteen years or so. Also you have to keep in mind that during my Prime Functionhood Poly was often down, so I sent the turn to the Pirates per mail hours before I posted it here.

[Kody]

You mean the pirates have been averaging more than 48 hours!!!!!!

[Snowflake]

Tass, good stuff! Just change the prime function introduction for CC to be something like "there are three emperor prime functions who are in a constant power struggle to put the other two in a prison or hospital" then we are ready to go.

Kody, if we can ever recruit a couple new members like you then I'm sure we'll rake this game in no time.

[Method]

Originally posted by Maniac


At least you recognize I am the true Prime Function.

but not the EMPEROR prime function

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
THE CYBERNETIC CONSCIOUSNESS - This faction plays the SMAC faction known as "The Cybernetic Consciousness" (again hence its name). The current leader of The Cybernetic Consciousness is "Function Maniac".

As Maniac said, I am both current Prime Function (although DBTS is acting until I get back from Florence next Tues) and moderator, so if they need authorising, it needs to come to me.

And Method: We are all Emperor's who are Prime Functions, and as Mod, I am also Emperor of the forums. Indeed, look at my location, and you will see it reads as "Emperor... of the Cybernetic Conciousness"

[Method]

you suck

[Hercules]

48 hours my ass, when the turn arrives wes opens a keg of rum. next we examines the turn from left to right and upside down, then we opens another keg of xenorum.

Next we puts thy options on a big board, like Tripoli Chaos submarine versus psi nuke parrot and then we throws the dirks. Then we opens another keg of xenorum.

Some time later, we tots up the scores, then opens another keg of rum and sends message of in bottle, after Maki has emptied it.

So time to play turn: 20 minutes
Time playing Pirate democracy 12 hours
Time for Miami, well what ever it takes. Cuspidore BB knows how to shiver the timbers

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Hercules
48 hours my ass, when the turn arrives wes opens a keg of rum. next we examines the turn from left to right and upside down, then we opens another keg of xenorum.

Next we puts thy options on a big board, like Tripoli Chaos submarine versus psi nuke parrot and then we throws the dirks. Then we opens another keg of xenorum.

Some time later, we tots up the scores, then opens another keg of rum and sends message of in bottle, after Maki has emptied it.

So time to play turn: 20 minutes
Time playing Pirate democracy 12 hours
Time for Miami, well what ever it takes. Cuspidore BB knows how to shiver the timbers

And how true this is...

Originally posted by Kody in the turn tracking thread
Not too late I hope?
This 8 hour rule is getting hard to keep.

Now you're just being cynical...


Keep up the good work.

[Vev]

/me feels happy, drinks some xenobeer and dances

[Impaler[WrG]]

I noticed you guys are aparently thinking of starting up another Democracy game. I understand that the current Democracy game is considered to be less fun then the Original (allass nothing ever is as good as the Original, except for Terminator 2).


But Ia bit mystified by this discussion, I though everyone one was stretched to the limits with the current Democracy game and desperate for new people to join and Partispate. How can you be starting yet another Democracy game ontop of your first one? If you think your having trouble keeping the non-Hard core crowd interested in the current Democracy game then this All Aquatic game is definatly going to scare them away. For that matter I would keep the Democracy games in original SMAC, more people own it (The fact that I cant actualy load up and SEE this current democracy game is probably a show stoper for me) and it provides WAY better role playing possibilites then SMACX, people are often enthusiastic and Ideologicaly attached to the original factions (I am for shure) and as you can see the Original factions are generating the most RolePlaying in the current Democracy game.

What I would do is set up a 7 team Original SMAC game, Encourage people to join their favorite faction for purley Role playing purposes. Ofcorse the factions size will fluctuate considerably, some factions might be 1 person but theirs nothing realy wrong with that as they would simply play the game like a normal PBEM.

Just my 2 Cents anyways, this is how it all looks to me as a low level Newbie Lurker.

[Hercules]

There was considerable discussion on SMAC v SMAX at the start and indeed on the human factions and AI.

[Maniac]

I disagree with you Impaler.

I understand that the current Democracy game is considered to be less fun then the Original

I can't speak for everyone, but I consider the current team game more fun than the previous ACDG.

But Ia bit mystified by this discussion, I though everyone one was stretched to the limits with the current Democracy game and desperate for new people to join and Partispate.

Again I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm certainly not stretched to the limit. I could deal with all the CyCon affairs myself. However it is more fun to have more members and more opinions. Not because there is too much to do, but because there is too little to do. The reason why some people started suggesting another demo game is because the turn rate of this game is too slow to be constantly active in the private fora.

For that matter I would keep the Democracy games in original SMAC, more people own it (The fact that I cant actualy load up and SEE this current democracy game is probably a show stoper for me)

In the poll deciding whether to go with SMAC or SMAX, there was a large majority for SMAX.

and it provides WAY better role playing possibilites then SMACX, people are often enthusiastic and Ideologicaly attached to the original factions (I am for shure)

Then why are three of the five teams SMAX factions?

and as you can see the Original factions are generating the most RolePlaying in the current Democracy game.

The Hive is generating the most roleplaying. The PUT isn't at all. And the Consciousness, a SMAX faction, is the second most heavy in roleplaying.

It's a pity you don't have SMAX, but the majority has. And since this is a democracy game, the will of the majority needs to be followed. Sorry.

[Nubclear]

Isn't SMAX freely avalible on www.the-underdogs.org?

And yes, I can personally verify that Consciousness is a major RP-exporter.

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Maniac
I disagree with you Impaler.

And I'll agree with you, Maniac.

I can't speak for everyone, but I consider the current team game more fun than the previous ACDG.

I'm actually much more involved because I know that my silence has more of a detrimental effect (though minimal still) than it did in the original.

Again I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm certainly not stretched to the limit. I could deal with all the CyCon affairs myself. However it is more fun to have more members and more opinions. Not because there is too much to do, but because there is too little to do. The reason why some people started suggesting another demo game is because the turn rate of this game is too slow to be constantly active in the private fora.

I was wondering why another ACDG was being considered.

In the poll deciding whether to go with SMAC or SMAX, there was a large majority for SMAX.

I wanted the pirates.

The Hive is generating the most roleplaying. The PUT isn't at all. And the Consciousness, a SMAX faction, is the second most heavy in roleplaying.

Of course there are some very... unique personalities there.

It's a pity you don't have SMAX, but the majority has. And since this is a democracy game, the will of the majority needs to be followed. Sorry.

Blah, support Apolyton! Buy stuff through their Amazon.com links!

[Hercules]

I'm inclined to agree with Maniac, though I too enjoyed the first acdg.

Here we experience: regular newsheets from the factions; unprecedented spying scandals, an extraordinary fun element (especially from the newer members), Googlie observations, ahemm, and best of all, the element of risk: some factions may not win, through a misjudged trade, transaction or battle. But the array of Pbem experience, spread across seems acceptable

For example you can hardly fart before Kody has registered it on his factionmagraph, which means we now pipe our excess gases to be diffused through various other outlets.

If you discover a tech now there are mind banks of analysts working on how you managed to do so.

So it appears quiet but I think sometime a outpouring will happen.

[Jamski]

Its only quiet untill someone gets pissed enough to declare vendetta.....

(BTW, I think this is more fun that the last game too)

-Jam

[Corellion]

I'd have to agree... but I didn't play the last game, so I don't think my opinion counts for much.

[Vev]

Although I am still waiting for the council of the planet.

[Kody]

*Jots down a few more notes about other factions.*

I noticed some interesting posting patterns last night.

[Kody]

Well just going to nudge some details.

* Is everyone thinking about what they're going to write for their faction introduction? (IMHO: start with roleplay, then have seperate section telling the new member what to expect)

* Is anyone thinking about what they're going to write for their debate?