September 10, 2003, 07:26
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#61
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Emperor
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points and
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September 10, 2003, 11:14
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#62
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I believe the bolded part, JohnT, says a person who is covered by the act (ie, person collecting) has NO right in collecting Social Security, even though they paid into it. Therefore any lack of payment (ie, "defeasance of 'accrued' interes) does not violate the Due Process Clause.
I assume the argument by the plaintiff was that him paying in money to SS, without a guarentee he would get it back (depending on when he died), was depriving of his property (his money) without due process of law. The SCOTUS here basically said "shut up". You don't have a right to get your money back, so if the government doesn't pay you 'your share', that doesn't violate the Constitution.
The 'lockbox' is not addressed in that passage at all. I don't think the court would rule that a 'lockbox' would be unconstitutional. It'd definetly be dumb though  .
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“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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September 10, 2003, 11:30
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#63
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Gotcha. Thanks.
So does the "lockbox" idea essentially remove the provision in the Act that allows Congress to make adjustments to the Act as they see fit? Hell, can Congress even make a law that prevents Congress from amending that same law (leaving aside all political ramifications)?
Or is it campaign hooey, all sound and fury signifying nothing?
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September 10, 2003, 11:37
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#64
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Deity
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Quote:
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I assume the argument by the plaintiff was that him paying in money to SS, without a guarentee he would get it back (depending on when he died), was depriving of his property (his money) without due process of law. The SCOTUS here basically said "shut up".
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Bastards.
-Arrian
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grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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September 10, 2003, 11:37
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#65
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Local Time: 04:28
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Quote:
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So does the "lockbox" idea essentially remove the provision in the Act that allows Congress to make adjustments to the Act as they see fit?
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No, because any 'lockbox' plan would simply be another law. Congress would easily be able to make adjustments to that act in the future if it wanted to. After all, a 'lockbox' doesn't guarentee to individual recipients a certain amount of money (which would make it a property right), so it could be adjusted whenever.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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September 10, 2003, 12:28
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#66
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King
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Amendment
The only effective "lockbox" would be to pass it as a constitutional amendment.
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That's not the real world. Your job has little to do with the sort of thing most people do for a living. - Agathon
If social security were private, it would be prosecuted as a Ponzi scheme.
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September 10, 2003, 13:45
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#67
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Deity
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I'm against raising the retirement age. In fact bring it back to 55 years old. That will help us with our unemployment problem. Just raise taxes.
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Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
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September 10, 2003, 13:47
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#68
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Emperor
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Re: Transfer
Quote:
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Originally posted by pchang
You have to realize that the largest group in the left are white females.
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Oh really?
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Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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September 10, 2003, 13:48
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#69
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He means left-of-center in the US, you are aware?
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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September 10, 2003, 13:49
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#70
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Deity
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__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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September 10, 2003, 13:50
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#71
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King
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Re: I'm 45. Will Social Security still be around when I'm ready to collect?
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Originally posted by Lancer
What might I expect? Certainly I'll be collecting after the boomers...will they break the bank and leave me with naught?
-Concerned
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I think one of two things will happen.
1.) That you etheir will get next to nothing or SS ends all togather.
2.) The government start selling a lot more bounds and we go into debt a few hunder billion dollars more.
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September 10, 2003, 13:51
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#72
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Emperor
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yes
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September 10, 2003, 13:52
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#73
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King
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I dont know why anyone in their right mind would count on Social Security. It pays next to nothing and you could not live you current life stly off it. What you could at most get $1000 bucks a month? You could not even pay the rent with that, or if you own your house by that time you would be living in proverty if that was all you got. ANd this is before the baby boom is going to hit.
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September 10, 2003, 14:00
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#74
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I didnt say at what level... but it will be something.
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September 10, 2003, 19:27
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#75
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Deity
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Jack, in the Philippines you can still live very well on very little. In a land where a skilled carpenter/mason makes $5 a day, a laborer $3, $700 a month will set you up like a king, or at least a prince.
Ecthelion...many spend their youth laughing at older people. Eventually you find the joke is on you.
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I'm not profane, I type the stars.
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September 10, 2003, 23:36
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#76
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Lancer, by the time I get to retirement age, there's a good chance that such large international differences in purchasing power will be gone, give the rate they've diminished in the last 4 decades.
This is a self correcting problem though, as the USA is a democratic nation. When the people paying for SS get fed up enough and outnumber those recieving it or soon to recieve it, SS ends.
Already, the de facto retirement age is increased past the SS age as people keep working since the SS check is insufficient.
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There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd
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September 11, 2003, 01:47
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#77
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Deity
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Very true. Although SS is sufficient for most who don't live in high cost of living areas. What does a recipient get at the low end? $1,000? $1,500 a month?
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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September 11, 2003, 02:33
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#78
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Regardless of what amount one gets from SS, it is significantly less than what they would get working, as in less than half. So basically SS keeps people from starving even if they have no savings.
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There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd
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September 11, 2003, 08:54
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#79
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DanS
Very true. Although SS is sufficient for most who don't live in high cost of living areas. What does a recipient get at the low end? $1,000? $1,500 a month?
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Less than that... the "lowest" you can go is a one-time death benefit of appx. $250.00. Monthly checks average (iirc and I don't have time to look up a cite) around $900.
Actually, I did a quick google and came up with the following:
Quote:
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In general, individuals must contribute for a minimum of 40 quarters (10 years) to receive Social Security retirement benefits, or 20 quarters to receive disability benefits. In return for these contributions, individuals generally can expect:
A monthly check after retirement, with the average check being $697 in December 1994.
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These are 1994 figures, though. In a 2002 Business Week article, the following is quoted about the maximum payments:
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For example, a 62-year-old who garners the maximum benefit, based on wages earned over a 35-year career, must consider whether it's better to take $1,248 a month now, $1,767 a month starting at age 65, or a larger sum starting later.
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September 11, 2003, 12:15
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#80
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King
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Max
In order to get Max benefits, you have to be making over $70,000 per year or so (it is adjusted for cost of living increases every year). For at least 10 or so quarters of SS contributions. Anything less gets you proprotionately less.
__________________
That's not the real world. Your job has little to do with the sort of thing most people do for a living. - Agathon
If social security were private, it would be prosecuted as a Ponzi scheme.
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September 12, 2003, 23:21
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#81
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Deity
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I have a friend getting $550 a month! He has to work under the table in order to 'retire'. My notice says I'll get around $700. They actually have been sending me info papers telling me what I'll recieve. Yet, you guys are telling me there isn't much chance of that. Well damnit, they should be getting my hopes up if they're going to go back on it. These notices should obligate them to do what they say they'll do.
****ing politicos
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I'm not profane, I type the stars.
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September 12, 2003, 23:34
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#82
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Deity
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"Lancer, by the time I get to retirement age, there's a good chance that such large international differences in purchasing power will be gone, give the rate they've diminished in the last 4 decades."
Smiley, don't bet on it. It keeps getting more affordable over there because their politicians are so corrupt, and the culture is that the more kids you have the more security you'll have in old age. When I was a kid the Sullivans down the street from me had 11 children. These days, in this country, that doesn't happen, In the Philippines, there is a family down the street with ten kids, and still at it. Endless labor there. I have a maid! I'm not even there and I have a maid, costs $40 a month, and getting less, because the Philippine peso keeps falling against the dollar.
The last thing I'd want is to get really old in this country where the old are not people, they're an industry. I'm getting old among people who will look after me untill the day I die, with love in their hearts. First however, I'm going to learn how to sail. Love those little sandy tropical islands.
Some just exist at low tide.
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I'm not profane, I type the stars.
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September 13, 2003, 01:34
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#83
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Emperor
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Even still I wouldn't peg my retirement on the corruptness of a foreign government..
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Visit First Cultural Industries
There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd
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