Technical questions

[Cyrion]

I have some doubts about a few things, where I'm not sure my way of doing things is correct!

I hope someone can answer, as I intend to try and validate my events file this week-end.


1. Change terrain effect

If I change the terrain of a square (via events file), will the units sitting in that spot be destroyed??

If not, how could I make sure I destroy units in a definite square??

2. Change terrain and Barbarians

I read somewhere that when a change terrain takes place in the events file, all barbarians on the map disappear, unless they possess a city, is that correct?

I intend to give the barbarians an unreachable city from the start, to make sure they stay on the map. Is that necessary?? and is that the best solution??

3. Barbarian city

To create my initial barbarian city, I intend to manually create a size 2 city from another civ, and then to create a barbarian unit through event file next to it, so that it takes the city.

Is there an easier way to directly create barbarian cities or units (without using the events file) ?

And in the events file, what "civ" name should I use: "Barbarian" or "Barbarians" ??

4. Units in the same spot

I intend to use the events file to create barbarians units at a definite spot, unless another civ's unit is still sitting on this spot! Does it work?? I mean, what happens if the events file try to create an unit on a spot already occupied by another civ's unit: does the creation take place and the 2 units sit on the same spot, or is the game stopped from creating the unit (as I think and hope) ??

[Arthedain]

the units are destroyed on a square where the terrain s changed.

use the CivCity utility to change the owner of the city to barbarians. it can be found on mercator's homepage:
http://www.civgaming.net/mercator/mapedit/downloads.htm
look @ the bottom of the page, Carl Fritz's Scenario Tools.

[Cyrion]

Thanks Arthedain!

And about questions 2 and 4, anybody's got an idea??
And about the name to use for Barbarians in the events file??

[William Keenan]

Originally posted by Cyrion
2. Change terrain and Barbarians

No. That doesn't happen.

4. Units in the same spot

I intend to use the events file to create barbarians units at a definite spot, unless another civ's unit is still sitting on this spot! Does it work?? I mean, what happens if the events file try to create an unit on a spot already occupied by another civ's unit: does the creation take place and the 2 units sit on the same spot, or is the game stopped from creating the unit (as I think and hope) ??

A CREATE UNIT event will not create units that occupy the the location as units or a city of another civ. If they square is occupied it will try to create the units in the next spot listed in LOCATIONS. If all loactions are invalid the unit will not be created.

[Cyrion]

Thanks William, I'll try without the barb city then !!

And I intend to use a "Nature" civ, wihout any settler or such (actually just for impassable terrain).

Do I need to give them a city or not?

Edit: and thanks for the 2nd answer too, it's what I hoped it would be!

[Elok]

I'm pretty sure they can be cityless, at least from FW onwards. I've heard that cityless civs at the beginning of a scenario in prior versions make the game crash. If you really wanna play it safe, why not make the immobile "impassible terrain" units into settlers? It's not like the AI could use them as such.

[Palaiologos]

I had some problems with that change terrain event.
Although i set the map rectangle just fine, amazingly the terrain changed is 6(six squares) instead of the normal 5(The four edges and the center).


And remember Cyrion, Change Event eliminates not only units but cities as well.

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by Palaiologos
And remember Cyrion, Change Event eliminates not only units but cities as well.

Thanks Palaiokogos, but that should be no problem for me: I'll use a concept I saw on this forum from someone who was building a Byzantine scenario, and cities are not involved in the change terrain (for more infos on that, wait for me to finish it! )

[Cyrion]

First a comment: I still think that the Changeterrain destroys the barbarians units IF they don't own a city at the time it happens! That's what happened in my tests, and it stops after I gave them a city!

Second (somehow related to Palaiologos "rectangular" remark): if I want to change a few squares at a time, can I only define a rectangular shape that is fully aligned with the vertical and horizontal? I mean would it be possible to use, for instance, "58,88,60,86,58,88,60,86"?? and would I then get a change in the 3 squares: 58,88; 59,87; 60,86 ?? I tried it, but it didn't seem to work! Is there a way to get it, apart from using 3 Changeterrain? Or maybe there was another problem in my event??

Third and last: I had a visual problem with an unit: if I create a particular unit (and I tried a few ones, it only happened with that particular unit) it looks just fine with any Civ, except the barbarians: if I create it for the barbarians, everything is fine EXCEPT that I can't see it, only the shield and health bar are visible on the terrain! What's up?? Did this already happen to anybody??

[Mercator]

2) That obviously doesn't work... The ChangeTerrain needs the 4 corners of a rectangle, like so:

1--2
|  |
4--3

You can't just give any coordinates you fancy.

3) Was it the unit in the diplomat slot by any chance? Barbarian diplomats will get the graphic of the barbarian leader instead. If you blanked that one out, you'd get the effect you describe.

[Cyrion]

Thanks Mercator:

2) that's what I thought: you need a rectangle aligned with Horizontal and vertical

3) YES, the unit, though NOT a diplomat, is in the diplomat slot, AND the barbarian diplomat has been blanked out!

So, if I understood it right, I just need to swap this unit with one the Barbarians never get, and then it should be solved, right??

Thanks again! (this community is really great with so many helpful people! )

[N35t0r]

you can swap it with another unit, or you can provide the same graphic in the barb. leader slot (or even provide the barbs with the same unit but different graphic)

[DarthVeda]

The barbarians automatically get terrain improvements (roads, irrigation, etc).

[Cyrion]

About the barbarian unit in the diplo slot: I just swaped with another unit, and it works perfectly, thanks!


Now I have another event problem: upon destruction of a (unique static) barbarian unit, I NEED another unit to be created on the same square. This works fine if the unit I create is Barbarian controlled to, but DOESN'T work if it belongs to another civ (which is what I NEED)!!

This is a really BIG problem for my scen! Any idea why it is so and how I could solve this problem??

[Catfish]

I don't know, but logic might suggest that it's to stop units for more than one civ appearing in the same tile in the same turn.

Does it have to appear in the same turn? Do you have the Delay modifier available to you in the version of Civ2 you're using?

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by Catfish
I don't know, but logic might suggest that it's to stop units for more than one civ appearing in the same tile in the same turn.

Does it have to appear in the same turn? Do you have the Delay modifier available to you in the version of Civ2 you're using?

Never heard of this Delay modifier, that would be perfect, but I fear it's only available in TOT (I'm using MPGE)

[Catfish]

Originally posted by Cyrion
Never heard of this Delay modifier, that would be perfect, but I fear it's only available in TOT (I'm using MPGE)

Yeah, well that's a bit of a bummer - I don't have MGE, only FW and ToT, so I wasn't sure. The Delay modifier allows you to delay the event Action by 1 to 1000 turns.

Despite the fact that you'd expect your event to work in theory, maybe the reason the game doesn't allow it is because of the way it handles events in memory.

[Cyrion]

Thanks Catfish
So this delay thing is what I thought it would be, too bad it's not in MPGE...

But we have a saying in french "la nuit porte conseille": and so I woke up with an idea "around" this problem; I'll try it right now, to see if it solves it!

[Cyrion]

OK, it didn't work, but I found another way aroud it and it works just fine: upon destruction of the unit, I give a (up-to-now discarded) tech to Nature (unplayable civ) and at the next turn, via a Receivedtechnology event, the new unit is created!

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Catfish]

Good to hear. Just be aware, however, that there still exists the potential for your event to be "blocked". If units from any other civs are present at these co-ordinates during the same player turn that the event Action is called, then no unit will be created at that location.

[Cyrion]

Yep, that's why, with this "technologyreceived", I triggered first a "changeterrain" (to wipe any unit currently sitting on the square) and then a a "create unit"!

Stay tuned for the next questions that, I'm sure, will appear in the next days

[William Keenan]

Another possibility would be to list the four squares around the primary square in the locations section of the create unit; since one of these squares must be controlled by the attacker and thus a valid location for create unit.

[N35t0r]

it's 8 squares!

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by William Keenan
Another possibility would be to list the four squares around the primary square in the locations section of the create unit; since one of these squares must be controlled by the attacker and thus a valid location for create unit.

Yes, you're right, except it wouldn't be serving my purpose (which you had no way to guess, so I'll explain what I did! )

So, my basic concept is the following:
1) civ X has an unit (static) on a definite square
2) every 3 turns (for instance), a mobile offensive unit for civ X is created on this square
3) as soon as a civ (let's call them Y! how original!!) destroys this static unit, I want another static unit (belonging to the "nature" civ in my scen, allied to each civ, so that they can't be attacked and don't hinder movement) from civ Z (did you guess that would be their name??) to be created on this square (and NOT on any other one), so that the units from civ X won't be able to span there from then on!!

So, as you now can see:
1) a surrounding square wouldn't do!
2) and the unit won't belong to the attacking civ!

But thanks for your thoughts anyway, I might use your suggestion for other things in the future!

[kobayashi]

The simplest way to do it is to change the said terrain to water. Units cannot spawn on water (see ST BAQ ion storm generator or Cardassian and/or Dominion Shipyards in ST Dominion War)

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by kobayashi
The simplest way to do it is to change the said terrain to water. Units cannot spawn on water (see ST BAQ ion storm generator or Cardassian and/or Dominion Shipyards in ST Dominion War)

Yes! Excellent idea Kobi, that's what I'll do!

Except for 1 of my events (I use the same "routine" for a few different units), the one that I tested, because the created unit is a "helo" unit, and I think it could be created on water (only Ground unit can't spawn on water, I think?? haven't tested it, though...)

But I'll use it on the other events, which we'll save some events space! Good!

BTW: if I want to create a boat with units on board, it doesn't seem to work; what I did is that I created the units on an island and a boat next to it; is there a way to have the units directly created onboard??

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Cyrion


BTW: if I want to create a boat with units on board, it doesn't seem to work; what I did is that I created the units on an island and a boat next to it; is there a way to have the units directly created onboard??

I don't think there is a way around that one- and there's no guarantee they'll all get on the boat.

There is a slight twist to this. If you make a city in the sea and then creat a boat in it via events, all the units the city has been making will get on the boat since units in a sea city are always asleep. Unfortunately you can't create land units in a sea city via events. The only way to control which units end up in the boat is to use the barbarian civ since it can't change production.

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by kobayashi
I don't think there is a way around that one- and there's no guarantee they'll all get on the boat.

Yeah, that's what I thought, but it's not a big problem in my case: it will probably never be controlled by the AI!

There is a slight twist to this. If you make a city in the sea and then creat a boat in it via events, all the units the city has been making will get on the boat since units in a sea city are always asleep. Unfortunately you can't create land units in a sea city via events. The only way to control which units end up in the boat is to use the barbarian civ since it can't change production.

Hmm, interesting! Might be useful one day, thanks

[Cyrion]

OK, I tested my event file completely and everything seems to work, except for 1 event:

I create a (Ground) unit for the barbarians (who own a city which can't be taken somewhere on the map), and this unit disappears at the end of the turn! The unit is in the Caravel slot.

Any idea or suggestion??

And now that my scenario is ready, I want to hide the map to the players (and show them only a part of it)before last saving my scen, how should I do that??

[N35t0r]

Check the map for each civ (shift+F2)... if any civ sees more than what you want, you'll have to hide the whole map (scenario options IIRC) and then 'explore' it again...

the easyest way to do this, AFAIK, is to create an air unit wih lots of movement (temporarily) and use it to explore (creating another one when only 1 move is left, and disbanding the old one)...


And i have no idea for the barbarian's disbanding of the unit... is it supported by the city (and the city has no shields to upkeep it?) maybe it gets disbanded (try changing it's support to the barb city, if it is a NON unit)... they're wild gusses, though..