HOTW 2 threads safely archived!

deity · September 13, 2003, 03:23

Ming was right.
Apologies to MarkG and Ming.

Part One:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...&threadid=1487

Part Two:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...&threadid=1550

Part Three:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=19876

Part Four:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=22436

Part Five:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=25296

The last post in this thread doesn't indicate the end of the game, so still looking...

If there is enough interest ozzy and I might put all the relevant posts into a complete works... My website could host it.

Also, even though the game ended, the end-game was never fully played out. Maybe we could get some volunterers, or even some original players to play it out!!
I'll post a final save soon...

deity · September 13, 2003, 03:37

drake's site:

http://www.geocities.com/history_of_the_world/

deity · September 13, 2003, 03:54

If anyone thinks I got the wrong the save here, let us know.

It's 1655AD. The ozzy Mongols have launched a major counter-offensive against the Australian (DEITIAN) attack

Makeo · September 13, 2003, 04:07

oh good, now i can sleep at night.

deity · September 13, 2003, 04:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Makeo
oh good, now i can sleep at night.

deity · September 13, 2003, 04:42

1645AD, just before the killer blow

Ljube · September 13, 2003, 06:42

Deity, have you been declared winner?
You have so many units that I can't understand how anyone could have even the slightest hope of opposing your domination. Unless they all team up against you.

deity · September 13, 2003, 07:38

Quote:

Originally posted by ljcvetko
Deity, have you been declared winner?
You have so many units that I can't understand how anyone could have even the slightest hope of opposing your domination. Unless they all team up against you.

Well, diplos are meant to have winners as such but the next turn I took out South Am from Zulus and started the march through SE Asia.
The reason I was 'allowed' to get away with it was the result of a diplomatic strategy threaded through the whole game. In brief, the Chinese were not inclined to go against me because I'd saved them earlier in the game. Israel was co-opeative with me because I helped them in many ways too. Leadership amongst the remaining civs was fraught with lack of trust so drake could not effectively get a combined force together - but I know he was working very hard on the Chinese

OzzyKP · September 13, 2003, 10:22

Yea, no need to play out the end game. As I recall the turns were about 30-45 minutes each and it was just a matter of waiting for Deity to ass rape us all.

I checked my files and the save you posted is the same as the latest one I've got. Although I do have a 1660 alternate reality .sav in which the Aussie hordes never invaded.

Lets use that.

Don't forget to save my election thread. I was proud of that.

OzzyKP · September 13, 2003, 10:29

As for teaming up against the Aussies, it would have been nice... Raz was the key in this. Capo and Drake were decidedly against them, I had decided to stay totally in character and have a democratic election to decide how UAS would play out the end game. The voters elected Genghis Khan on a platform of attacking the Chinese.

Ideally players form alliances to create a balance of power and unite against the top dog. However there is also the inclination to ally with the top dog so he kicks everyone else's ass, and not yours. This is what I feel Prom(China) and Raz(Israel) did.

Plus since in the real world hundreds of years pass during the history of the world, so alliances can change radically in that time. But when you are playing for a year or so, and leaders for large part stay the same people often just get locked into alliances and stay that way. Players that try to be tricky and unpredictable (more like real life) end up getting beat down (Capo).

OzzyKP · September 13, 2003, 11:09

Two of my election threads:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=29337
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...&threadid=7010

The third was deleted by Ming... Grrr.

OzzyKP · September 13, 2003, 11:25

Ok, two more very important threads to take a look at:

This is the Diplo FAQ prepared by CapTVK and myself. In my last big post where I listed links and rosters for alot of the games the links still work, so if anyone (ahem Deity) wants to expand his archiving quest, it'd be nice to save the other Diplogames too:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...&threadid=1494

This is a good list prepared by Capo of most of the HOTW2 threads. Links still work I believe, and should fill in the gaps Deity:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=42646

VetLegion · September 14, 2003, 11:15

Good threads, and especially good FAQ

The links in FAQ are broken though.

I am not a regular on Civ2MP forum so can you expirienced diplogamers tell me if interest for diplogames has increased,decreased, or is it sort of stable since they were introduced?

I read a couple of threads and in one Capo suggested to MarkG a dedicated diplogame site hosted on Apolyton and MarkG agreed if the interest was sufficient. I take it then that there was no interest?

FAQ at least deserves to be put somwhere and updated, imho.

OzzyKP · September 14, 2003, 12:16

Interest has deffinately dropped off in the last 2 years. I think HOTW3 was the last game till now, and that didn't even last very long. That was Feburary-March 2002.

You can just look at my list of diplogames on page 2 of the FAQ to see how things waxed and waned. Interest was pretty good at the start, but it was still a niche interest. Things dropped off for a bit, but then was revived by Capo and I. The time around HOTW2 was deffinately the heyday of diplogaming. Inspired by the success of HOTW2 a whole bunch of other games started up at the same time. There were like 4 or 5 running at the same time at one point.

After that diplogaming has pretty much ceased. Of course civ2 play in general has greatly declined. I was hoping diplogaming would improve when we all made the switch to civ3, but it seems civ3 has failed to impress everyone, and few of us really picked it up. (I still have yet to play it)

rah · September 14, 2003, 15:40

Quote:

Originally posted by OzzyKP
(I still have yet to play it)

You're one of the lucky ones. You haven't experienced how unsatisifying it is.

Prometheus · September 14, 2003, 20:18

Quote:

Originally posted by rah

You're one of the lucky ones. You haven't experienced how unsatisifying it is.

Amen on those sediments…

Ahhh, memories, while I have fond memories of the game, I don’t know if I would of dragged up a game from a year ago. And Oz, I was the Chinese, Raz was Israel.

Ljcvetko, I consider Deity the winner, he played a good game, Australia is isolated enough not to be threatened, and Deity is very good at projecting power so it was an ideal position for him. Drake, did try to organize a counter offensive but it was pretty much for naught. If you had given me another 100 years the game might of turned out differently, but Oz had to go and attack me and no one could offer me a more lucrative deal than Deity. What was it, nearly 1000+ for every caravan? In any attack on Deity I would have been on the front lines and been crushed at that point in the game. Though I think I did have Deity a bit scared at the end, and we did have some good politick discussions on ICQ at the end there.

OzzyKP · September 14, 2003, 21:12

Oops, that was a stupid mistake. I know who was who. Change is made.

And its not that I had to go attack you, I went with what the voters decided. And through some electioneering by Deity (which I had forgotten about till he got me to look for the old threads.... you jerk!) warmongers were picked. Oh well, you looked to be solidly in the Aussie camp anyways, I guess it was only a matter of time.

But yea, attacking you wasn't a smart move. I underestimated you. I figured since you were split on two continents, if I could take all or most of your Asia territory that I could hold it. I was wrong. Oh well, good game though.

deity · September 17, 2003, 08:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Prometheus

Amen on those sediments…

Ahhh, memories, while I have fond memories of the game, I don’t know if I would of dragged up a game from a year ago. And Oz, I was the Chinese, Raz was Israel.

Ljcvetko, I consider Deity the winner, he played a good game, Australia is isolated enough not to be threatened, and Deity is very good at projecting power so it was an ideal position for him. Drake, did try to organize a counter offensive but it was pretty much for naught. If you had given me another 100 years the game might of turned out differently, but Oz had to go and attack me and no one could offer me a more lucrative deal than Deity. What was it, nearly 1000+ for every caravan? In any attack on Deity I would have been on the front lines and been crushed at that point in the game. Though I think I did have Deity a bit scared at the end, and we did have some good politick discussions on ICQ at the end there.

he he

Starting to flush out a few lurkers now

Hi Prom! Yeah, we enjoyed that game but I was always worried that you'd suport drake in the end and you could have fooled me by replacing caras on those many vessels heading my way with units!

But in pure diplo terms it never made any sense for Chinese to backstab Aussies so I feel the diplomatic victory was the most important achievement in this game. Capo, Chris (GNGSpam) and drake blew it diplomatically...

deity · September 17, 2003, 08:47

Quote:

Originally posted by OzzyKP

And its not that I had to go attack you, I went with what the voters decided. And through some electioneering by Deity (which I had forgotten about till he got me to look for the old threads.... you jerk!) warmongers were picked. ...

LOL! I'd forgotten that....

You might well say that, I couldn't possibly comment

It was Paul Keating using the d/l anway. deity was backing Captain Morant.

OzzyKP · September 21, 2003, 11:53

Deity's Billy Idol fetish had to mess up my precious election. Sheesh.

Docker · September 22, 2003, 14:17

ahhh so many lovely memories, and so many hidden secrets !!!!!

Just to fill in a little bit of history, many thought the Israelis ruined the end game by being allied to the Deitians. This needs a little explanation.

Firstly, our sworn enemies due to the actions over many years were the Europeans led by Capo and the Mali led by first Chris and then Belinda and even ozzy for awhile i think.

Drake foolishly allied himself with the europeans and the mali, mainly cause i beleive he underestimated the israelis determination. Faced with 3 opponents and possibly a 4th in the mongols, the Aussies led by the mighty Deity assisted the israelis with much trade and also trooops.

If drake had allowed the israelis to sort there own problems out with europe and mali i was hoping to form alliance with him and then turn on Deity . I knew i had support from mongols in late stages of game and with drakes might we could have pulled deity down to a more respectable level. Especially if the chinese remained at least neutral or even better joined us.

I also had plans to rush build the Manhattan project secretly and would have launched a nuclear war. !!!!!!!!!

Maybe i need to find my civ2 disk and reinstall it .......

deity · September 23, 2003, 08:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Docker
ahhh so many lovely memories, and so many hidden secrets !!!!!

Just to fill in a little bit of history, many thought the Israelis ruined the end game by being allied to the Deitians. This needs a little explanation.

Firstly, our sworn enemies due to the actions over many years were the Europeans led by Capo and the Mali led by first Chris and then Belinda and even ozzy for awhile i think.

Drake foolishly allied himself with the europeans and the mali, mainly cause i beleive he underestimated the israelis determination. Faced with 3 opponents and possibly a 4th in the mongols, the Aussies led by the mighty Deity assisted the israelis with much trade and also trooops.

If drake had allowed the israelis to sort there own problems out with europe and mali i was hoping to form alliance with him and then turn on Deity . I knew i had support from mongols in late stages of game and with drakes might we could have pulled deity down to a more respectable level. Especially if the chinese remained at least neutral or even better joined us.

I also had plans to rush build the Manhattan project secretly and would have launched a nuclear war. !!!!!!!!!

Maybe i need to find my civ2 disk and reinstall it .......

LMAO!!!

Welcome back Raz

You b@stard!

OzzyKP · September 23, 2003, 11:00

If I recall correctly I think I was lobbying you hard Raz, and you kept giving me great promises that you were on my side, but then nothing became of it.

Those Israelis double and triple crossed the whole world, heh.

Heck, what'd you have against Mongolia anyways? We were at war with the Euros several times, and had always been friendly to Israel. Plus ya gotta love the Ozzy administration due to my prior career of beating up your Mali neighbor as Israel sub.

OzzyKP · September 23, 2003, 11:01

Everyone is coming back, I wonder where Drake and Capo are...

Rasputin · September 23, 2003, 22:23

wasnt so much what i had agaisnt mongols ozzy, not once you were leader, but the previous leader frank, he was aggressive agaisnt me and made a few threatening gestures.

I jsut never made up my mind as to once i had conquered europe, North Africa and north america as to whether i was turning on australia or mongols next.

had to keep everyone guesiing till i got that Manhattans built. I was building some toher wonder that i was going to switch to manhattan at last moment and then claim " oops sorry deity i clicked wrong button and built it!!!"

OzzyKP · September 29, 2003, 23:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasputin
had to keep everyone guesiing till i got that Manhattans built. I was building some toher wonder that i was going to switch to manhattan at last moment and then claim " oops sorry deity i clicked wrong button and built it!!!"