How do you handle the late game mindworm explosion?

[The diplomat]

In most of my games, Planet goes absolutely postal on me. I probably get 50-60 demon boil mindworms that just tear through my cities.

What's some of the best strategies to fight it?

[Chaos Theory]

1) Win before that can happen

2) Make a few 1-<3r>t-1 units to defend against native life

3) Make SAM/empath artillery to cripple/kill the mindworms before
they can attack you, since you get to attack first except in TCP/IP mode

4) Make empath copters to attack stray mindworms if a pop happens too distant from your sentinels and artillery, but keep in mind each can't go through more than 3 or 4 mindworms.

Also, by the time planet gets this pissy, you should be the victim of locusts, not ordinary mindworms

[Adalbertus]

Don't transcend.

Same answer, more seriously:
It looks like you have been building the Voice of Planet SP. After that, you'll get automatically widespread fungal blooms.
It fits into the storyline in that (in the course of the interludes) fungus is becoming more and more sentient. Usually, at the time, planet achieves full sentience, an ecologic breakdown occurs. What you are doing with the Voice of Planet is to transfer all knowledge of humanity just in the rigit moment (what a good luck, err, trigger) to planet thus interrupting the "tragic cycle".

I like the SMAC storyline

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
1) Win before that can happen

Well, I like to go for Transcendance.

2) Make a few 1-<3r>t-1 units to defend against native life
3) Make SAM/empath artillery to cripple/kill the mindworms before
they can attack you, since you get to attack first except in TCP/IP mode
4) Make empath copters to attack stray mindworms if a pop happens too distant from your sentinels and artillery, but keep in mind each can't go through more than 3 or 4 mindworms.

I do that. I am usually fairly successful at wiping out mindworms before they hit. So, I do rack up some nice cash from it all.

Also, by the time planet gets this pissy, you should be the victim of locusts, not ordinary mindworms

I get locusts too. But usually, my AAA units can defend against them fairly well.

[Adalbertus]

In case you didn't build VoP:
Follow Chaos Theory, and you can prepare against it by first provoking the first fungal bloom, and then

1. provoke more "controlled" fungal blooms
2. build Tree Farms
3. build Hybrid Forests
4. build Centauri Preserves
5. build Temples of Planet

Each single of these 1.-5. increases your free minerals per base by one. You'll find this better explained when you look for eco-damage formula.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Adalbertus
Don't transcend.

Same answer, more seriously:
It looks like you have been building the Voice of Planet SP. After that, you'll get automatically widespread fungal blooms.

Yeah, I usually build the Voice of Planet. And of course, Planet went berserk on me. I just toughted it out, for the 7-8 turns it took to rush Trascendance and win.

[Maniac]

AFAIK the fungus growth after you build the Voice of Planet is dependent on the ecological damage you're causing. If you don't have any eco-damage, you won't have any fungal blooms with mind worms.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Maniac
AFAIK the fungus growth after you build the Voice of Planet is dependent on the ecological damage you're causing. If you don't have any eco-damage, you won't have any fungal blooms with mind worms.

I guess I was just being sloppy. My cities had about 80 ecodamage. Ouch!

[Curiosity]

Originally posted by The diplomat
Yeah, I usually build the Voice of Planet. And of course, Planet went berserk on me. I just toughted it out, for the 7-8 turns it took to rush Trascendance and win.

Never build the Voice until you can build the Ascent the next turn. If you upgrade crawlers, then it only costs ~1400 EC, so it's not too hard to do.

[Certhas]

High planet rating also helps. I don't get my cities down to zero pollution but the mindworms then are static and don't attack. Also attacking them first before they get the chance to strike, not with a chopper, but with a land unit takes out the entire stack of mindowrms for a quick and easy 1000+ cash.

[Mead]

Originally posted by The diplomat
In most of my games, Planet goes absolutely postal on me. I probably get 50-60 demon boil mindworms that just tear through my cities.

What's some of the best strategies to fight it?

I used to encounter this problem a lot before I read about clean minerals in these forums.

I learned how to turn those pop booms into a sizable cash cow.


SOLUTION
When you get near the end of the game build a number of (at least 10) drop artillery units before you get the Pops. Usually, I was in the Shard era when I built them. I used them as an anti-mindworm pop fire brigade.

Ensure you have good sensor support near your bases. Actively patrol the surrounding area.

Garrison your big (polluting) bases with chopper and rover units. Ensure you have enough AAA units there to protect against the locusts.

It is nice to have some units just outside the big bases since I do not think the worms will appear in a square that is occupied.


WHEN A BIG POP HAPPENS

RECON
Use your sensors and launch a chopper (or needlejet) to find out the layout of the worm pop. Find out where the worms are. Usually, there will be worms on three squares (1 on one square, 1 or 2 worms on another, and 7 to 14 or more on another square; this is the square you need to kill first).

DROP IN ARTILLARY
If you do not already have artillery in the base drop some in. This is very easy to do if you have orbital insertion. Even if you do not, you should, if well prepared, have drop artillery within 8 squares.

Your drop units do not suffer the 20% damage because they are dropping into a base.

Your drop units artillery fire is still effective (regardless of the normal 50% energy penalty drop units face if they attack in the same turn they attack). NOTE - Dropping other units into a threatened base to strengthen the defenses is an understandable option if you are not able to kill the worms that turn, BUT if you attack with these non-artillery units in the same turn they drop they will suffer the 50% energy penalty and may well die.

You cannot drop units into sea squares but usually my biggest polluters were on land. If your biggest polluters are in sea bases, then ensue you have good artillery there already or naval support within range.

USE THE ARTILLARY
Hit the big mind worm square first.
Usually, after two or perhaps three volleys, all the worms will have lost ~90% of their energy.

MOP UP
After you weaken the worms use a rover or chopper to kill the worms. You cannot capture the worms with air power, but usually if you under such large mindworm attacks because of pollution, I do not think if you could capture them anyway. In any event, you need a positive planet rating to have a chance at capturing worms anyway.

I have noticed that I am more likely to required to make multiple attacks if I am using airpower, whereas if I use a land unit to attack the weakened mindworms, they usually all die with one attack.

After you kill the big stack of worms, the worms on the other squares will gain a life cycle (assuming they are not at Demon already). This will make the other worms a little harder to kill if you do not have enough artillery to weaken them before you attack. Although it is better to have to kill one or two bigger full-strength mindworms, than 14 or more bigger full-strength mindworms.

A FEW MORE NOTES:
Dream Twister (+50% PSI attack) and Neural Amp (+50% PSI defense) as well as good Social Engineering (Green +20% PSI attack) and (Cybernetic +20% PSI attack) come in handy.

Do not forget about empathy and trance units.

Once you learn to deal with those huge mind worm pops, you start seeing messages such as (1200 ec recovered from planet pearls). If you do not deal with those pops well, then the worms and locusts will end up cutting through your defenders and start killing your populace.

Since I learned about clean minerals I have not had to deal with mindworm pops. I usually build a huge number of tree farms, hybrid forests, and centuri preserves so that it does not affect my game (I kind of consider it an ecology tax that gives some other benefits as well).

It's not the mindworm pops that bug me about ecological damage. It is having to deal with all that global warming effects. REALLY, JUST HOW BIG ARE THOSE POLAR ICE CAPS? I mean they must be huge if their melting could raise the sea levels as much as they do. It is really annoying dealing with the rising water; 1000+ meter sea level rises are just too much.

A FEW THINGS I DO NOT KNOW

Is a higher rated artillery weapon more effective against worms than a lower rated one?

Does PSI amour work? If so, how well?




Mead

[The Vagabond]

But IIRC, upon the completion of VoP, no more wild mindworms, locusts, etc. are encountered. Sure, Fungus speads like crazy, but there are no more "animals". Do you still encounter mindworms, etc. after VoP is fully operational?

[BustaMike]

Curiosity said it. I'll repeat it. Don't build the thing until you have enough crawlers stockpiled to transcend on the next turn.

[gwillybj]

Take crawlers out of the equation.
Now how do you handle the late game mindworm explosion?

[HeymlicH]

Originally posted by gwillybj
Take crawlers out of the equation.
Now how do you handle the late game mindworm explosion?

I never use crawlers (disabled them in the alpha.txt). I handle that with energy, as I buy all of the later SP's.
Transcendency only costs about 20k, and at that time u should have plenty ...

[Maniac]

Originally posted by gwillybj
Take crawlers out of the equation.
Now how do you handle the late game mindworm explosion?

Well by making sure you don't have a mindworm explosion, by preventing eco damage.

[HeymlicH]

Umm ... I always get the mindworm explosion, even if I don't do any eco damage at all.

[Pandir]

I thought VoP just made fungus pop, I dont think it gives worms. By that point in the game Im getting enough resources from fungus that I dont really care if they destroy my terraforming..

[Hydro]

I like buidling VoP with the objective of getting the fungal explosion but no native life outbreaks. They key, as meantioned by others, is be green with no eco damage. What is especially fun is to do this with Morgan.

Regardless, lots of resonance/trance defenders and empath attack units are a good idea (and cheap, too).

Why would you what to avoid the native explosion, and the energy it generates? Well, but they time you're ready to transcend energy is pretty meaningless. They are a pain, which is why I avoid them. Plus, it is a granola-munching thing to do...

Hydro

[Scytale]

I usually play morgan, and I say f* planet and f* gaians (I'm always at war with them or pretty close to war in late game, since gaians usually are the best on Transcend). I build sensors, needlejets (have to see where the darn things are), and I also usually have nifty things like The Pholus Mutagen, The Dream Twister, The Neural Amplifier (if the gaians get them I'm f*ed), so I can afford 1-2 mind worms at each base (5-6 at the major ones). The thing is to hit them first (take out the entire stack). No artillery. Just worms

* a carefully built network of magtubes helps a lot

[joncnunn]

Building the VoP will stop all native life explosions. You'll continue to get fungus pops and when this replaces forest it will increase probability of furhter pops. This also doubles the cost of rushing everything, so it's a good idea to rush all the other projects first.

As to what I do in late game, is:

1. Go Green. It helps a great deal.

2. Recall the offensive forces to the core area and just leave the units to hold the other terratory thers.

3. Previously have built a Mag Rail Network and have several units on that landmass. If several outbreaks occur the same turn, use the air units against indivudal units and land units against stacks.

4. Don't build lots of Nanoreplications. Just build them in the two or three most productive bases.

[Hydro]

Late mid and late game a green Morgan makes more energy than a FM Morgan. In a big empire efficiency is king. When you add wealth, GA and later eudumonic you get a huge eco rating, so you get the +1 energy/square (I add Cyber or Eudumonic, depending on what nets me the most energy). Anything after +2 eco doesn't mean a whole lot (adding a few energy in the base square) when compared to crawlered energy, trade, and satellites and the output from big bases with hybrid forests. Basically, FM becomes irrelevant, and a drag on energy production. After all, why produce energy that you lose to inefficiency?

That is not to say that FM isn’t an absolute key to goose energy production in tiny, pre-boom/hab bases. I love Dem/FM/Wealth or Dem/FM/Knowledge (when I need a little efficiency boost). There is nothing more beautiful than a newly-established Morganite base pulling in more energy than a late early game PK or Gaian base. They simple cannot compete.

So, Morganites - abandon obsolete paradigms, and shed pointless ideology! Remember that human behavior is economic behavior, and embrace the glory of Energy! Go Green!

[Mead]

Originally posted by Hydro
Late mid and late game a green Morgan makes more energy than a FM Morgan. In a big empire efficiency is king.

***

So, Morganites - abandon obsolete paradigms, and shed pointless ideology! Remember that human behavior is economic behavior, and embrace the glory of Energy! Go Green!

I have also found that high efficency results in a lot more net income than FM in mid/later games with large empires.

Mead

[CEO Aaron]

Yes, FM's strength is primarily in the early to midgame, when your base square income comprises the lion's share of your energy income. Once you're working more squares, have specialists, boreholes, energy parks, etc, it definitely loses some of its charm. However, if you have a significant amount of trade, the trade bonuses from high economy can be quite substantial well into the midgame.

[Scytale]

I agree with the CEOs around here. However, I find the combination Demo-FM highly irritating when at war. I always use Police-State-FM-K/P or Demo-Green-W/K since I'm always at war. Demo-FM seems nice, but who wants to play a game in which all you do is drill boreholes and watch energy flow in - 'cause we all know that a Demo-FM morgan at war will have 90% of bases practically inoperative. I'd only use Demo-FM with Yang's "communal utopia", but I can't.