How would you vote on the Canadian Alliance motion?

blackice · September 16, 2003, 02:08

How would you vote on the Canadian Alliance motion? "Marriage is and should remain the union of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others."
72.3%
I agree
27.7%
I disagree

http://www.canada.com/national/globalsunday/?rnd=898 More input

Flandrien · September 16, 2003, 02:44

Shouldn't this be off-topic ?

Going off-topic, did you play giant bird yet ?

St Leo · September 16, 2003, 20:25

I guess some reactionary sites linked to the poll first.

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 21:00

And I suppose if the vote had gone the other way, that it would be the views of the people.

General Ludd · September 16, 2003, 21:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

And I suppose if the vote had gone the other way, that it would be the views of the people.

All the people that count.

Asher · September 16, 2003, 21:06

This is shameful.

Sava · September 16, 2003, 21:22

I agree marriage is between a man and woman. Gays can have "Civil Unions" or whatever... which would have the same recognition, rights, and benefits in the eyes of the law. For me it's a semantical thing. If two guys want to get together and dress up like a husband and wife (*****/butch) I don't care... let them have their fun.

I don't get why all these people have inferiority complexes in regards to gay people... "OH NO THEY ARE CALLING THEIR COMMITMENT 'marriage'" OH NO THE WORLD WILL END!!11!!!

give me a break...

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 22:00

I support the Alliance motion.

I love the left's response when the vote goes against them.

Watch 'em squirm.

Quote:

I don't get why all these people have inferiority complexes in regards to gay people...

Yes, all those who oppose gay marriage are envious of the strength of gay relationships.

Edit:
76% now.

Sava · September 16, 2003, 22:01

Quote:

Yes, all those who oppose gay marriage are envious of the strength of gay relationships.

nah, most are just ignorant gay haters

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 22:03

Rather than ignorance, perhaps they've seen too much.

Sava · September 16, 2003, 22:04

Perhaps they should mind their own ****ing business.

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 22:09

How can we? It's everywhere.

Sava · September 16, 2003, 22:11

are you getting overwhelmed with gay marriage invitations or something?

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 22:12

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/17/in...1064376000&en=73fc34fed028bb0d&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

Quote:

Canadian Legislators Narrowly Reject Move Against Gay Unions
By CLIFFORD KRAUSS

ORONTO, Sept. 16 ?The Canadian government won an important but narrow victory today in its efforts to extend marriage rights to same-sex couples.

The House of Commons rejected an opposition motion reaffirming the current federal position that marriage is by definition a union between a man and a woman.

But the 137-132 vote demonstrated that the government's legislation to make same-sex marriage legal throughout Canada may be heading for a difficult fight next year.

Had today's motion passed, it would not have had an immediate impact on the right of gay and lesbian couples to marry in Ontario and British Columbia, where provincial appeals courts have ruled in recent months that the current federal definition is discriminatory and unconstitutional.

The conservative Canadian Alliance party proposed the motion to heighten the debate on the issue as it prepares for federal elections expected to be held early next year.

Canadian Alliance leaders hoped to win over enough Liberal votes to reconfirm a 1999 parliamentary resolution defining marriage as a heterosexual institution, and they succeeded in dividing many backbench members from rural and suburban districts from the leadership.

During the heated floor debate today, Stephen Harper, leader of the Canadian Alliance, complained that the courts were overreaching their powers and cited "the right of the people to make social value judgments."

But Justice Minister Martin Cauchon said: "We cannot deny the rights of people who are part of our society. They are not to be ignored or made to feel invisible."

The top Ontario appeals court ruled in June that same-sex couples had the right to marry immediately in the province and ordered the federal government to change its definition of marriage. The British Columbia appeals court soon followed with a similar ruling.

Rather than appeal the decisions to the Supreme Court, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien and his cabinet decided to introduce legislation that would redefine marriage to include gay and lesbian couples nationwide.

Mr. Chrétien said he wanted the Supreme Court to evaluate the legislation before bringing it to a vote in the House of Commons. The high court is expected to offer its opinion in April, just as the national campaign to elect a new parliament and prime minister is expected to be in full swing.

Most legal scholars say that in past decisions on civil rights, the Supreme Court has been in agreement with lower court decisions extending equal rights to gays and lesbians under the 1982 Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Canada's equivalent to the Bill of Rights.

Should the Supreme Court approve the legislation and the House of Commons vote against it next year, the stage would be set for a potential constitutional crisis.

Under the 1982 charter, Parliament has the right to strike down court decisions on certain constitutional questions. It has never yet done so.

Paul Martin, the former finance minister and a heavy favorite to succeed Mr. Chrétien, voted against the motion but expressed ambivalence about same-sex marriage to reporters. He conceded that he had wrestled with the issue, and said, "There can be other options to same-sex marriage," like civil union. But he also said he was compelled to support Canadian courts once they had spoken.

We lost by only 5 votes! Even after Mr. Chretien called for his party to vote along party lines. Let's see the actual legislation pass now.

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 22:19

Here's how all the MP's voted.

http://www.canada.com/national/featu...9-341F4E736117

Look at all those Libs.

YEAS - 132 Votes:

ABBOTT, James (Canadian Alliance)
ABLONCZY, Diane (Canadian Alliance)
ANDERS, Rob (Canadian Alliance)
ANDERSON, David L. (Canadian Alliance)
ASSAD, Mark Joseph (Liberal)
ASSADOURIAN, Sarkis (Liberal)
ASSELIN, Gerard (Bloc Quebecois)
BAILEY, Roy H. (Canadian Alliance)
BARNES, Rex (Conservative)
BELLEMARE, Eugene (Liberal)
BENOIT, Leon Earl (Canadian Alliance)
BERTRAND, Robert (Liberal)
BONIN, Raymond (Liberal)
BREITKREUZ, Garry (Canadian Alliance)
BRYDEN, John H. (Liberal)
BURTON, Andy (Canadian Alliance)
CADMAN, Chuck (Canadian Alliance)
CALDER, Murray (Liberal)
CANNIS, John (Liberal)
CASEY, Bill (Conservative)
CASSON, Rick (Canadian Alliance)
CHAMBERLAIN, Brenda Kay (Liberal)
CHARBONNEAU, Yvon (Liberal)
CHATTERS, David Cameron (Canadian Alliance)
CUMMINS, John Martin (Canadian Alliance)
DAY, Stockwell (Canadian Alliance)
DOYLE, Norman E. (Conservative)
DUNCAN, John Morris (Canadian Alliance)
EFFORD, R. John (Liberal)
ELLEY, Reed (Canadian Alliance)
EPP, Ken (Canadian Alliance)
EYKING, Mark (Liberal)
FITZPATRICK, Brian (Canadian Alliance)
FONTANA, Joe (Liberal)
FORSETH, Paul Eugene (Canadian Alliance)
GALLANT, Cheryl (Canadian Alliance)
GAUDET, Roger (Bloc Quebecois)
GOLDRING, Peter (Canadian Alliance)
GOUK, Jim (Canadian Alliance)
GREWAL, Gurmant Singh (Canadian Alliance)
GREY, Deborah C. (Canadian Alliance)
GUARNIERI, Albina (Liberal)
HANGER, Art (Canadian Alliance)
HARPER, Stephen Joseph (Canadian Alliance)
HARRIS, **** (Canadian Alliance)
HERRON, John (Conservative)
HILL, Grant (Canadian Alliance)
HILL, Jay D. (Canadian Alliance)
HILSTROM, Howard E. (Canadian Alliance)
HINTON, Betty (Canadian Alliance)
HUBBARD, Charles (Liberal)
JACKSON, Ovid (Liberal)
JAFFER, Rahim (Canadian Alliance)
JOHNSTON, F. Dale (Canadian Alliance)
KARYGIANNIS, Jim (Liberal)
KEDDY, Gerald (Conservative)
KENNEY, Jason (Canadian Alliance)
KILGER, Bob (Liberal)
LANCTOT, Robert (Bloc Quebecois)
LASTEWKA, Walt (Liberal)
LEBEL, Ghislain (Independent)
LEE, Derek Vincent (Liberal)
LINCOLN, Clifford (Liberal)
LONGFIELD, Judi (Liberal)
LUNN, Gary (Canadian Alliance)
LUNNEY, James D. (Canadian Alliance)
MACKAY, Peter Gordon (Conservative)
MALHI, Gurbax Singh (Liberal)
MALONEY, John (Liberal)
MARK, Inky (Conservative)
MARTIN, Keith P. (Canadian Alliance)
MAYFIELD, Philip William (Canadian Alliance)
MCCORMICK, Larry (Liberal)
MCGUIRE, Joe (Liberal)
MCKAY, John (Liberal)
MCNALLY, Grant (Canadian Alliance)
MCTEAGUE, Dan (Liberal)
MEREDITH, Val (Canadian Alliance)
MERRIFIELD, Rob (Canadian Alliance)
MILLS, Bob (Canadian Alliance)
MOORE, James (Canadian Alliance)
MURPHY, Shawn (Liberal)
NORMAND, Gilbert (Liberal)
OBHRAI, Deepak (Canadian Alliance)
O¡¦BRIEN, Pat (Liberal)
O¡¦REILLY, John Francis (Liberal)
PALLISTER, Brian William (Canadian Alliance)
PANKIW, Jim (Independent)
PENSON, Charlie (Canadian Alliance)
PERIC, Janko (Liberal)
PESCHISOLIDO, Joe (Liberal)
PICKARD, Jerry (Liberal)
PILLITTERI, Gary Orazio Vincenzo (Liberal)
PRATT, David (Liberal)
PROVENZANO, Carmen (Liberal)
RAJOTTE, James (Canadian Alliance)
REED, Julian Alexander Arnott (Liberal)
REID, Scott (Canadian Alliance)
REYNOLDS, John Douglas (Canadian Alliance)
RITZ, Gerry (Canadian Alliance)
SAVOY, Andy (Liberal)
SCHELLENBERGER, Gary (Conservative)
SCHERRER, Helene C. (Liberal)
SCHMIDT, Werner (Canadian Alliance)
SERRE, Benoit (Liberal)
SGRO, Judy (Liberal)
SKELTON, Carol (Canadian Alliance)
SOLBERG, Monte (Canadian Alliance)
SORENSON, Kevin (Canadian Alliance)
SPELLER, Bob (Liberal)
SPENCER, Larry (Canadian Alliance)
STECKLE, Paul Daniel (Liberal)
STINSON, Darrel (Canadian Alliance)
ST-JULIEN, Guy (Liberal)
STRAHL, Chuck (Canadian Alliance)
SZABO, Paul John Mark (Liberal)
THOMPSON, Gregory Francis (Conservative)
THOMPSON, Myron (Canadian Alliance)
TIRABASSI, Tony (Liberal)
TOEWS, Vic (Canadian Alliance)
TONKS, Alan (Liberal)
UR, Rose-Marie Margaret (Liberal)
VELLACOTT, Maurice (Canadian Alliance)
VENNE, Pierrette (Independent Bloc Quebecois)
VOLPE, Joseph (Liberal)
WAPPEL, Tom (Liberal)
WAYNE, Elsie Eleanore (Conservative)
WHITE, Randy A. (Canadian Alliance)
WHITE, Ted (Canadian Alliance)
WILFERT, Bryon (Liberal)
WILLIAMS, John G. (Canadian Alliance)
YELICH, Lynne (Canadian Alliance)

NAYS - 137 votes:

ADAMS, Peter (Liberal)
ALCOCK, Reg (Liberal)
ALLARD, Carole-Marie (Liberal)
ANDERSON, David (Liberal)
AUGUSTINE, Jean (Liberal)
BACHAND, Andre (Conservative)
BACHAND, Claude (Bloc Quebecois)
BAGNELL, Larry (Liberal)
BARNES, Susan (Liberal)
BARRETTE, Gilbert (Liberal)
BEAUMIER, Colleen (Liberal)
BELANGER, Mauril (Liberal)
BENNETT, Carolyn (Liberal)
BEVILACQUA, Maurizio (Liberal)
BIGRAS, Bernard (Bloc Quebecois)
BINET, Gerard (Liberal)
BLAIKIE, Bill (NDP)
BLONDIN-ANDREW, Ethel (Liberal)
BONWICK, Paul (Liberal)
BOROTSIK, Rick (Conservative)
BOUDRIA, Don (Liberal)
BOURGEOIS, Diane (Bloc Quebecois)
BRADSHAW, Claudette (Liberal)
BRISON, Scott (Conservative)
BROWN, Bonnie (Liberal)
BULTE, Sarmite (Liberal)
BYRNE, Gerry (Liberal)
CACCIA, Charles L. (Liberal)
CAPLAN, Elinor (Liberal)
CARIGNAN, Jean Guy (Independent Liberal)
CASTONGUAY, Jeannot (Liberal)
CATTERALL, Marlene (Liberal)
CAUCHON, Martin (Liberal)
CHRETIEN, Jean (Liberal)
CLARK, Joe (Conservative)
CODERRE, Denis (Liberal)
COLLENETTE, David Michael (Liberal)
COMARTIN, Joe (NDP)
COPPS, Sheila Maureen (Liberal)
CRETE, Paul (Bloc Quebecois)
CULLEN, Roy (Liberal)
CUZNER, Rodger (Liberal)
DALPHOND-GUIRAL, Madeleine (Bloc Quebecois)
DAVIES, Libby (NDP)
DEVILLERS, Paul (Liberal)
DHALIWAL, Herb (Liberal)
DION, Stephane (Liberal)
DISCEPOLA, Nick (Liberal)
DROMISKY, Stan (Liberal)
DROUIN, Claude (Liberal)
DUCEPPE, Gilles (Bloc Quebecois)
DUPLAIN, Claude (Liberal)
EASTER, Arnold Wayne (Liberal)
EGGLETON, Arthur C. (Liberal)
FARRAH, Georges (Liberal)
FINLAY, John Baird (Liberal)
FOLCO, Raymonde (Liberal)
FRULLA, Liza (Liberal)
FRY, Hedy (Liberal)
GAGNON, Christiane (Bloc Quebecois)
GAGNON, Marcel (Bloc Quebecois)
GAGNON, Sebastien (Bloc Quebecois)
GAUTHIER, Michel (Bloc Quebecois)
GIRARD-BUJOLD, Jocelyne (Bloc Quebecois)
GODFREY, John Ferguson (Liberal)
GODIN, Yvon (NDP)
GOODALE, Ralph Edward (Liberal)
GRAHAM, Bill (Liberal)
GROSE, Ivan (Liberal)
GUAY, Monique (Bloc Quebecois)
GUIMOND, Michel (Bloc Quebecois)
HARVARD, John (Liberal)
HARVEY, Andre (Liberal)
IANNO, Tony (Liberal)
JENNINGS, Marlene (Liberal)
JOBIN, Christian (Liberal)
JORDAN, Joe Louis (Liberal)
KARETAK-LINDELL, Nancy (Liberal)
KEYES, Stan Kazmierczak (Liberal)
KNUTSON, Gar (Liberal)
KRAFT SLOAN, Karen (Liberal)
LALONDE, Francine (Bloc Quebecois)
LEBLANC, Dominic (Liberal)
LILL, Wendy (NDP)
LOUBIER, Yvan (Bloc Quebecois)
MACKLIN, Paul Harold (Liberal)
MAHONEY, Steve (Liberal)
MANLEY, John Paul (Liberal)
MARCEAU, Richard (Bloc Quebecois)
MARCIL, Serge (Liberal)
MARLEAU, Diane (Liberal)
MARTIN, Pat (NDP)
MARTIN, Paul (Liberal)
MASSE, Brian (NDP)
MCCALLUM, John (Liberal)
MCDONOUGH, Alexa (NDP)
MCLELLAN, A. Anne (Liberal)
MENARD, Real (Bloc Quebecois)
MINNA, Maria (Liberal)
MITCHELL, Andy (Liberal)
NAULT, Robert Daniel (Liberal)
NEVILLE, Anita (Liberal)
NYSTROM, Lorne Edmund (NDP)
PAGTAKHAN, Rey D. (Liberal)
PAQUETTE, Pierre (Bloc Quebecois)
PARADIS, Denis (Liberal)
PARRISH, Carolyn (Liberal)
PATRY, Bernard (Liberal)
PETERSON, Jim (Liberal)
PETTIGREW, Pierre (Liberal)
PHINNEY, Beth (Liberal)
PICARD, Pauline (Bloc Quebecois)
PLAMONDON, Louis (Bloc Quebecois)
PRICE, David (Liberal)
PROCTOR, **** (NDP)
PROULX, Marcel (Liberal)
REDMAN, Karen (Liberal)
REGAN, Geoff (Liberal)
ROBILLARD, Lucienne (Liberal)
ROBINSON, Svend Johannes (NDP)
ROCK, Allan (Liberal)
ROY, Jean-Yves(Bloc Quebecois)
SAADA, Jacques (Liberal)
SAUVAGEAU, Benoit (Bloc Quebecois)
SCOTT, Andy (Liberal)
SHEPHERD, Alexander James (Liberal)
SIMARD, Raymond (Liberal)
ST. DENIS, Brent (Liberal)
STEWART, Jane (Liberal)
ST-HILAIRE, Caroline (Bloc Quebecois)
ST-JACQUES, Diane (Liberal)
TELEGDI, Andrew (Liberal)
THIBAULT, Robert (Liberal)
THIBEAULT, Yolande (Liberal)
VANCLIEF, Lyle (Liberal)
WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy (NDP)
WHELAN, Susan (Liberal)

Sava · September 16, 2003, 22:22

but seriously, wtf do you care if two gay dudes (or girls) want to get married... it's none of your business.

notyoueither · September 16, 2003, 22:37

I'm somewhat confused. If some churches want to marry gay couples, and some gay couples want to get married, where's the beef?

Is the fear that all churches will be forced to marry gay couples?

Since there are already civil unions, what is the difference? It is a religious one, right? So, isn't failing to recognise the religious union of a gay couple in some denomination or other a suppression of that religious sect, and not just discrimination against those who were married under that blessing?

btw, I have a very difficult time believing 74% of Canadians as a whole are against the Mangler on this.

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 22:40

PARTY BREAKDOWNS : YEAS

ALLIANCE: 64

ABBOTT, James (Canadian Alliance)
ABLONCZY, Diane (Canadian Alliance)
ANDERS, Rob (Canadian Alliance)
ANDERSON, David L. (Canadian Alliance)
BAILEY, Roy H. (Canadian Alliance)
BENOIT, Leon Earl (Canadian Alliance)
BREITKREUZ, Garry (Canadian Alliance)
BURTON, Andy (Canadian Alliance)
CADMAN, Chuck (Canadian Alliance)
CASSON, Rick (Canadian Alliance)
CHATTERS, David Cameron (Canadian Alliance)
CUMMINS, John Martin (Canadian Alliance)
DAY, Stockwell (Canadian Alliance)
DUNCAN, John Morris (Canadian Alliance)
ELLEY, Reed (Canadian Alliance)
EPP, Ken (Canadian Alliance)
FITZPATRICK, Brian (Canadian Alliance)
FORSETH, Paul Eugene (Canadian Alliance)
GALLANT, Cheryl (Canadian Alliance)
GOLDRING, Peter (Canadian Alliance)
GOUK, Jim (Canadian Alliance)
GREWAL, Gurmant Singh (Canadian Alliance)
GREY, Deborah C. (Canadian Alliance)
HANGER, Art (Canadian Alliance)
HARPER, Stephen Joseph (Canadian Alliance)
HARRIS, **** (Canadian Alliance)
HERRON, John (Conservative)
HILL, Grant (Canadian Alliance)
HILL, Jay D. (Canadian Alliance)
HILSTROM, Howard E. (Canadian Alliance)
HINTON, Betty (Canadian Alliance)
JAFFER, Rahim (Canadian Alliance)
JOHNSTON, F. Dale (Canadian Alliance)
KENNEY, Jason (Canadian Alliance)
LUNN, Gary (Canadian Alliance)
LUNNEY, James D. (Canadian Alliance)
MARTIN, Keith P. (Canadian Alliance)
MAYFIELD, Philip William (Canadian Alliance)
MCNALLY, Grant (Canadian Alliance)
MEREDITH, Val (Canadian Alliance)
MERRIFIELD, Rob (Canadian Alliance)
MILLS, Bob (Canadian Alliance)
MOORE, James (Canadian Alliance)
OBHRAI, Deepak (Canadian Alliance)
PALLISTER, Brian William (Canadian Alliance)
PENSON, Charlie (Canadian Alliance)
RAJOTTE, James (Canadian Alliance)
REID, Scott (Canadian Alliance)
REYNOLDS, John Douglas (Canadian Alliance)
RITZ, Gerry (Canadian Alliance)
SCHMIDT, Werner (Canadian Alliance)
SKELTON, Carol (Canadian Alliance)
SOLBERG, Monte (Canadian Alliance)
SORENSON, Kevin (Canadian Alliance)
SPENCER, Larry (Canadian Alliance)
STINSON, Darrel (Canadian Alliance)
STRAHL, Chuck (Canadian Alliance)
THOMPSON, Myron (Canadian Alliance)
TOEWS, Vic (Canadian Alliance)
VELLACOTT, Maurice (Canadian Alliance)
WHITE, Randy A. (Canadian Alliance)
WHITE, Ted (Canadian Alliance)
WILLIAMS, John G. (Canadian Alliance)
YELICH, Lynne (Canadian Alliance)

LIBERAL: 54

ASSAD, Mark Joseph (Liberal)
ASSADOURIAN, Sarkis (Liberal)
BELLEMARE, Eugene (Liberal)
BERTRAND, Robert (Liberal)
BONIN, Raymond (Liberal)
BRYDEN, John H. (Liberal)
CALDER, Murray (Liberal)
CANNIS, John (Liberal)
CHAMBERLAIN, Brenda Kay (Liberal)
CHARBONNEAU, Yvon (Liberal)
EFFORD, R. John (Liberal)
EYKING, Mark (Liberal)
FONTANA, Joe (Liberal)
GUARNIERI, Albina (Liberal)
HUBBARD, Charles (Liberal)
JACKSON, Ovid (Liberal)
KARYGIANNIS, Jim (Liberal)
KILGER, Bob (Liberal)
LASTEWKA, Walt (Liberal)
LEE, Derek Vincent (Liberal)
LINCOLN, Clifford (Liberal)
LONGFIELD, Judi (Liberal)
MALHI, Gurbax Singh (Liberal)
MALONEY, John (Liberal)
MCCORMICK, Larry (Liberal)
MCGUIRE, Joe (Liberal)
MCKAY, John (Liberal)
MCTEAGUE, Dan (Liberal)
MURPHY, Shawn (Liberal)
NORMAND, Gilbert (Liberal)
O¡¦BRIEN, Pat (Liberal)
O¡¦REILLY, John Francis (Liberal)
PANKIW, Jim (Independent)
PERIC, Janko (Liberal)
PESCHISOLIDO, Joe (Liberal)
PICKARD, Jerry (Liberal)
PILLITTERI, Gary Orazio Vincenzo (Liberal)
PRATT, David (Liberal)
PROVENZANO, Carmen (Liberal)
REED, Julian Alexander Arnott (Liberal)
SAVOY, Andy (Liberal)
SCHERRER, Helene C. (Liberal)
SERRE, Benoit (Liberal)
SGRO, Judy (Liberal)
SPELLER, Bob (Liberal)
STECKLE, Paul Daniel (Liberal)
ST-JULIEN, Guy (Liberal)
SZABO, Paul John Mark (Liberal)
TIRABASSI, Tony (Liberal)
TONKS, Alan (Liberal)
UR, Rose-Marie Margaret (Liberal)
VOLPE, Joseph (Liberal)
WAPPEL, Tom (Liberal)
WILFERT, Bryon (Liberal)

CONSERVATIVES: 9

BARNES, Rex (Conservative)
CASEY, Bill (Conservative)
DOYLE, Norman E. (Conservative)
KEDDY, Gerald (Conservative)
MACKAY, Peter Gordon (Conservative)
MARK, Inky (Conservative)
SCHELLENBERGER, Gary (Conservative)
THOMPSON, Gregory Francis (Conservative)
WAYNE, Elsie Eleanore (Conservative)

BLOQ: 4

ASSELIN, Gerard (Bloc Quebecois)
GAUDET, Roger (Bloc Quebecois)
LANCTOT, Robert (Bloc Quebecois)
VENNE, Pierrette (Independent Bloc Quebecois)

INDEPENDENT: 1

LEBEL, Ghislain (Independent)

Sava · September 16, 2003, 22:41

notyoueither: it's a misleading poll (of course)... it's asking is marriage between a man and a woman... well DUH! it doesn't ask "Should gays have civil unions equivalent to marriage in terms of legality?"

notyoueither · September 16, 2003, 22:44

Maybe people are missing the 'to the exclusion of all others' bit, or maybe that site is not representative. I hope.

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 22:49

Quote:

but seriously, wtf do you care if two gay dudes (or girls) want to get married... it's none of your business.

Personally?

This will produce big changes to Canadian society, that affect everybody. That's why I care.

Sava · September 16, 2003, 22:50

Quote:

This will produce big changes to Canadian society, that affect everybody. That's why I care.

oh yeah, big changes... LIKE ACCEPTING AND TOLERATING GAYS INSTEAD OF HATING THEM

oh god the humanity!@

notyoueither · September 16, 2003, 22:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Personally?

This will produce big changes to Canadian society, that affect everybody. That's why I care.

What changes and why would they be bad?

Asher · September 16, 2003, 22:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Personally?

This will produce big changes to Canadian society, that affect everybody. That's why I care.

Indeed, you're right on the money!

Allowing gay marriage will prove too tempting for many of the people out there, and will contribute to a downfall in society when men realize they truly don't need women anymore. Not even to get married!

Can you guys not see how this will torment the country? How dare two people marry eachother if they have the same genitals, God will throw lightning down on our entire country and rape our children.

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 23:03

PARTY BREAKDOWN

NAYS - 137 votes:

LIBERAL: 98

ADAMS, Peter (Liberal)
ALCOCK, Reg (Liberal)
ALLARD, Carole-Marie (Liberal)
ANDERSON, David (Liberal)
AUGUSTINE, Jean (Liberal)
BAGNELL, Larry (Liberal)
BARNES, Susan (Liberal)
BARRETTE, Gilbert (Liberal)
BEAUMIER, Colleen (Liberal)
BELANGER, Mauril (Liberal)
BENNETT, Carolyn (Liberal)
BEVILACQUA, Maurizio (Liberal)
BINET, Gerard (Liberal)
BLONDIN-ANDREW, Ethel (Liberal)
BONWICK, Paul (Liberal)
BOUDRIA, Don (Liberal)
BRADSHAW, Claudette (Liberal)
BROWN, Bonnie (Liberal)
BULTE, Sarmite (Liberal)
BYRNE, Gerry (Liberal)
CACCIA, Charles L. (Liberal)
CAPLAN, Elinor (Liberal)
CARIGNAN, Jean Guy (Independent Liberal)
CASTONGUAY, Jeannot (Liberal)
CATTERALL, Marlene (Liberal)
CAUCHON, Martin (Liberal)
CHRETIEN, Jean (Liberal)
CODERRE, Denis (Liberal)
COLLENETTE, David Michael (Liberal)
COPPS, Sheila Maureen (Liberal)
CULLEN, Roy (Liberal)
CUZNER, Rodger (Liberal)
DEVILLERS, Paul (Liberal)
DHALIWAL, Herb (Liberal)
DION, Stephane (Liberal)
DISCEPOLA, Nick (Liberal)
DROMISKY, Stan (Liberal)
DROUIN, Claude (Liberal)
DUPLAIN, Claude (Liberal)
EASTER, Arnold Wayne (Liberal)
EGGLETON, Arthur C. (Liberal)
FARRAH, Georges (Liberal)
FINLAY, John Baird (Liberal)
FOLCO, Raymonde (Liberal)
FRULLA, Liza (Liberal)
FRY, Hedy (Liberal)
GODFREY, John Ferguson (Liberal)
GOODALE, Ralph Edward (Liberal)
GRAHAM, Bill (Liberal)
GROSE, Ivan (Liberal)
HARVARD, John (Liberal)
HARVEY, Andre (Liberal)
IANNO, Tony (Liberal)
JENNINGS, Marlene (Liberal)
JOBIN, Christian (Liberal)
JORDAN, Joe Louis (Liberal)
KARETAK-LINDELL, Nancy (Liberal)
KEYES, Stan Kazmierczak (Liberal)
KNUTSON, Gar (Liberal)
KRAFT SLOAN, Karen (Liberal)
LEBLANC, Dominic (Liberal)
MACKLIN, Paul Harold (Liberal)
MAHONEY, Steve (Liberal)
MANLEY, John Paul (Liberal)
MARCIL, Serge (Liberal)
MARLEAU, Diane (Liberal)
MARTIN, Paul (Liberal)
MCCALLUM, John (Liberal)
MCLELLAN, A. Anne (Liberal)
MINNA, Maria (Liberal)
MITCHELL, Andy (Liberal)
NAULT, Robert Daniel (Liberal)
NEVILLE, Anita (Liberal)
PAGTAKHAN, Rey D. (Liberal)
PARADIS, Denis (Liberal)
PARRISH, Carolyn (Liberal)
PATRY, Bernard (Liberal)
PETERSON, Jim (Liberal)
PETTIGREW, Pierre (Liberal)
PHINNEY, Beth (Liberal)
PRICE, David (Liberal)
PROULX, Marcel (Liberal)
REDMAN, Karen (Liberal)
REGAN, Geoff (Liberal)
ROBILLARD, Lucienne (Liberal)
ROCK, Allan (Liberal)
SAADA, Jacques (Liberal)
SCOTT, Andy (Liberal)
SHEPHERD, Alexander James (Liberal)
SIMARD, Raymond (Liberal)
ST. DENIS, Brent (Liberal)
STEWART, Jane (Liberal)
ST-JACQUES, Diane (Liberal)
TELEGDI, Andrew (Liberal)
THIBAULT, Robert (Liberal)
THIBEAULT, Yolande (Liberal)
VANCLIEF, Lyle (Liberal)
WHELAN, Susan (Liberal)

BLOQ: 23

BACHAND, Claude (Bloc Quebecois)
BIGRAS, Bernard (Bloc Quebecois)
BOURGEOIS, Diane (Bloc Quebecois)
CRETE, Paul (Bloc Quebecois)
DALPHOND-GUIRAL, Madeleine (Bloc Quebecois)
DUCEPPE, Gilles (Bloc Quebecois)
GAGNON, Christiane (Bloc Quebecois)
GAGNON, Marcel (Bloc Quebecois)
GAGNON, Sebastien (Bloc Quebecois)
GAUTHIER, Michel (Bloc Quebecois)
GIRARD-BUJOLD, Jocelyne (Bloc Quebecois)
GUAY, Monique (Bloc Quebecois)
GUIMOND, Michel (Bloc Quebecois)
LALONDE, Francine (Bloc Quebecois)
LOUBIER, Yvan (Bloc Quebecois)
MARCEAU, Richard (Bloc Quebecois)
MENARD, Real (Bloc Quebecois)
PAQUETTE, Pierre (Bloc Quebecois)
PICARD, Pauline (Bloc Quebecois)
PLAMONDON, Louis (Bloc Quebecois)
ROY, Jean-Yves(Bloc Quebecois)
SAUVAGEAU, Benoit (Bloc Quebecois)
ST-HILAIRE, Caroline (Bloc Quebecois)

NDP:12

BLAIKIE, Bill (NDP)
COMARTIN, Joe (NDP)
DAVIES, Libby (NDP)
GODIN, Yvon (NDP)
LILL, Wendy (NDP)
MARTIN, Pat (NDP)
MASSE, Brian (NDP)
MCDONOUGH, Alexa (NDP)
NYSTROM, Lorne Edmund (NDP)
PROCTOR, **** (NDP)
ROBINSON, Svend Johannes (NDP)
WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy (NDP)

CONSERVATIVES: 4

BACHAND, Andre (Conservative)
BOROTSIK, Rick (Conservative)
BRISON, Scott (Conservative)
CLARK, Joe (Conservative)

Asher · September 16, 2003, 23:04

Go Joe Clark.

Though I shouldn't be surprised, his riding is basically the gay community of Calgary.

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 23:14

Quote:

What changes and why would they be bad?

First, Why 'to the exclusion of all others?' If we approve of homosexual marriages, why not polygamy?

Secondly, Not helpful to the churches who oppose gay marriage. They will likely have tax exemptions cut off if they refuse to marry a couple. We see this in the Marc Hall case, and I see further precedents down the line.

Thirdly, we have a low birthrate. This will drop the birthrate further.

Fourth, immigration from other countries of people who cannot get married in their home countries, coming to Canada just to get married.

Fifth, what's going to happen with families? An affirmation of marriage between a man and a woman would finally show that a traditional family is something to be valued.

Ben Kenobi · September 16, 2003, 23:18

Couple of names stick out.

MACKAY, Peter Gordon (Conservative)

ASSELIN, Gerard (Bloc Quebecois)
GAUDET, Roger (Bloc Quebecois)
LANCTOT, Robert (Bloc Quebecois)
VENNE, Pierrette (Independent Bloc Quebecois)

Who are these BQ? Never heard of them.

Asher · September 16, 2003, 23:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
First, Why 'to the exclusion of all others?' If we approve of homosexual marriages, why not polygamy?

Why not polygamy?

That is a good question.

I've no problem with polygamy so long as they all consent. Ain't my place to tell them they can't.

Quote:

Secondly, Not helpful to the churches who oppose gay marriage. They will likely have tax exemptions cut off if they refuse to marry a couple. We see this in the Marc Hall case, and I see further precedents down the line.

Marc Hall went to a publically funded school, this is entirely different and I'm sure you're bright enough to know it.

Quote:

Thirdly, we have a low birthrate. This will drop the birthrate further.

People are going to stop having heterosexual sex because they can legally marry a man?

Quote:

Fourth, immigration from other countries of people who cannot get married in their home countries, coming to Canada just to get married.

They don't immigrate here, they come on vacation here.

An increase in tourism is a negative?

Quote:

Fifth, what's going to happen with families?

Same thing as before, I don't see families being broken up because the next door neighbors are two daddies.

notyoueither · September 16, 2003, 23:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
First, Why 'to the exclusion of all others?' If we approve of homosexual marriages, why not polygamy?

Why is polygamy wrong, and outlawed?

Why do you link polygamy and gay marriage?

Quote:

Secondly, Not helpful to the churches who oppose gay marriage. They will likely have tax exemptions cut off if they refuse to marry a couple. We see this in the Marc Hall case, and I see further precedents down the line.

That would be bull ****. If that happened churches could count on the support of most Canadians to tell the GoC and the Court to go shove it.

However, the fact that something bad might happen, is no reason to continue to deny rights to others.

Quote:

Thirdly, we have a low birthrate. This will drop the birthrate further.

Recognising gay marriage will encourage more people to be gay? I don't know if I agree with that.

Quote:

Fourth, immigration from other countries of people who cannot get married in their home countries, coming to Canada just to get married.

Hell, that would be good for us, since they tend to be better off and bring money with them. Throw open the doors! Bring us your gay, your cash, your good taste in clothes! Maybe Vancouver could become a Milan.

Quote:

Fifth, what's going to happen with families? An affirmation of marriage between a man and a woman would finally show that a traditional family is something to be valued.

Affirmation of some over the denial of others is not a positive thing, is it?