Outsourcing trends in U.S. IT industry

[Wraith]

--"Oh ****. I will just move to Mexico or India and get a job!"

They don't hire Americans.

In any case, the PHBs are catching on to the problems of outsourcing.

http://www.cio.com/archive/090103/money.html

Wraith
"When dealing with the insane, the best method is to pretend to be sane."
-- Hermann Hesse

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by faded glory
Oh wait. Entertainment is being outsourced too. There making movies everywhere else but hollywood now. So I guess we will all be saying "What else can I get you with that 12 pc Extra Krispy?"

With your head start in the field, you should be able to make night shift assistant supervisor.

[Ted Striker]

Programmers don't have rapport with the end user in general.

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Think how Australia feels. With such close proximity to India, our IT industry is all almost non-existant. Outsourcing has virtually taken over. The IT job market here is very poor.

**** it, I'm going to become an accountant.

Why? In the next 20 years that will all be automated too. Maybe one or two people will be able to operate an entire bank. Look at the Automated Teller phone lines.

[faded glory]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


With your head start in the field, you should be able to make night shift assistant supervisor.

The sad thing about that is, I could probably make more money then what I do now + overtime


I dont have any management skills anyway. I cant even manage my checkbook.

[Skanky Burns]

I cant even manage my checkbook.

See, theres still a market for accounting.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


With your head start in the field, you should be able to make night shift assistant supervisor.

And what's your indispensible skillset?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Oh, where shall I begin....

1) I own the company, so I won't be likely to outsource myself....

2) My software development work is in a specialty field where I've done lots of end user work so I have a better understanding of the end user's business requirements than anyone that could be hired off the street.

3) I've spent ten years doing the general system and software architecture and waiting for the hardware and communications infrastructure to be useful.

4) I have several component technologies that are patentable.

5) I've had senior people in the target industry and related fields look at partial demos and agree that my product is several years ahead of any potential competitor on it's data acquisition side, and that there is no competing alternative on the commercial operations side.

6) And there's more stuff beyond that, but not for public consumption. In fact, there's some stuff not even for private discussion under an NDA until the IP lawyers have done their thing.

7) If all else fails, I could fall back on a bunch of different IT positions at or close to CIO/CTO level, plus the occasional soliticitations I get in the energy field. In fact, if I was willing to relocate, there's a ton of stuff people have thrown at me.



And besides, Steverino the gas pumper and I go way back, so you're butting in on a little private jive talking.

[Asher]

The people at risk are code monkeys and tech support, mostly.

It really doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Asher
The people at risk are code monkeys and tech support, mostly.

It really doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Which I'm sure makes the forum breathe a collective sigh of relief.

[Asher]

As they should.

It should come as no surprise really that people people with "commodity careers" can be replaced by outsourcing so easily.

[rah]

Good article. It's nice that some other people are also starting to see some of the possible shortcomings.

especially........
"One reason for that is the American workers' comfort level with speaking up and offering suggestions. "A good American programmer will push back and say, What you're asking for doesn't make sense, you idiot," Zupnick says. "Indian programmers have been known to say, This doesn't make sense, but this is the way the client wants it." Thus, work takes more time and money to complete. And a project that's common sense for a U.S. worker—like creating an automation system for consumer credit cards—may be a foreign concept offshore. Additionally, offshore vendors often lack developer experience (the average experience of offshore developers is six years)."
BINGO

A perfect example is some of the support work I do on projects. Since I'm a director, my billing rate is quite high. When I proposed transitioning some of my responsibilities on certain projects to lower rate programmers on my staff, the people in charge of those projects declined because they felt that in the long run, my skill and experience with the projects actually saved them money.

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by Asher
As they should.

It should come as no surprise really that people people with "commodity careers" can be replaced by outsourcing so easily.

Tell us about your outsource-proof career, Asher..

[rah]

Short of being CEO there are NO jobs that can't be outsourced.

Providing value in everything you do will reduce the chances of it happeneing

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by rah
Short of being CEO there are NO jobs that can't be outsourced.

Providing value in everything you do will reduce the chances of it happeneing

If you work for Federal or State government, I believe your chances of being outsourced are greatly reduced (for political reasons). Of course your salary is also reduced compared to private industry...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Feephi
Tell us about your outsource-proof career, Asher..

There is a difference between having an outsource-proof career and one that is far less likely to be outsourced.

I'd like to know the chances of outsourcing somebody with a CS Masters or CS Bachelors + MBA compared to somebody with a 2-year computer programming diploma from their community college.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by rah

A perfect example is some of the support work I do on projects. Since I'm a director, my billing rate is quite high. When I proposed transitioning some of my responsibilities on certain projects to lower rate programmers on my staff, the people in charge of those projects declined because they felt that in the long run, my skill and experience with the projects actually saved them money.

I suspect that you make this offer just to hear the expected answer.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by rah
Short of being CEO there are NO jobs that can't be outsourced.

Oh, where shall I begin....

1) I own the company, so I won't be likely to outsource myself....

Of course, that just makes my job tougher, not easier.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Asher
The people at risk are code monkeys and tech support, mostly.

It really doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Yeah, you really need that person-to-person connection for that high paying sales position, dontcha?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

There is a difference between having an outsource-proof career and one that is far less likely to be outsourced.

I'd like to know the chances of outsourcing somebody with a CS Masters or CS Bachelors + MBA compared to somebody with a 2-year computer programming diploma from their community college.

Well you never know. The less educated person will get paid less, but still retains the same set of skills that the better educated person does (speaks english, does things correctly the first time)

I can bet that in those 3.3 million jobs that have been lost, quite a few were very well educated people.

[Gatekeeper]

Outsourcing is simply one of the trends that globalization and trans-national corporations are making more obvious.

This pattern will not change as long as there are parts of the planet where companies can go to get cheap labor, fewer environmental/health/work regulations and whatnot. For example, the article had a Bulgarian firm that touted its IT employees make, at most, $300 a month. You figure for a U.S.-based IT employee, the minimum would be $1200. That's a difference of $900; rather substantial, isn't it?

Apply this to other industries and, insofar as I'm concerned, the United States, Europe, et al., simply can't compete. Then, on top of cheap wages, throw in the fact that many other these other nations have weaker workplace and environmental regulations ... heck, if I were an unscrupulous businessman, I'd certainly make use of the cheaper resources.

All in all, it's hard for "First World" nations — with their higher labor costs and workplace/environmental rules — to compete with nations that have no such concerns. Either way, business wins and the worker/consumer pays a certain price.

Gatekeeper

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Outsourcing is simply one of the trends that globalization and trans-national corporations are making more obvious.

This pattern will not change as long as there are parts of the planet where companies can go to get cheap labor, fewer environmental/health/work regulations and whatnot. For example, the article had a Bulgarian firm that touted its IT employees make, at most, $300 a month. You figure for a U.S.-based IT employee, the minimum would be $1200. That's a difference of $900; rather substantial, isn't it?

Apply this to other industries and, insofar as I'm concerned, the United States, Europe, et al., simply can't compete. Then, on top of cheap wages, throw in the fact that many other these other nations have weaker workplace and environmental regulations ... heck, if I were an unscrupulous businessman, I'd certainly make use of the cheaper resources.

All in all, it's hard for "First World" nations — with their higher labor costs and workplace/environmental rules — to compete with nations that have no such concerns. Either way, business wins and the worker/consumer pays a certain price.

Gatekeeper

And that my friends, is entirely correct. Which is why if you want to be sure to keep your job, move into the services sector. These jobs are never outsourced, because some just cant be (like tourism, (tour guides and ****)), other needs high levels of education and financial insitutes to function (banks and bankers, investment firms, stockmarkets etc)

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Asher
I'd like to know the chances of outsourcing somebody with a CS Masters or CS Bachelors + MBA compared to somebody with a 2-year computer programming diploma from their community college.

First, I don't know where you've looked, but a 2 year programming diploma won't even get your resume looked at with the majority of employers down here.

An MSCS or BSCS + MBA without a requisite number of years of valid industry experience will get looked at, but you'll be very much expendible. BSCS degrees are a dime a dozen, and so are mediocre code jockeys with no imagination and no drive. Getting the MBA or MSCS without having put grunt time in the real world just tells me that you couldn't get a decent job so you stayed in school to delay paying back those student loans.

At best, until you work yourself up into senior level project management or architecture positions, your extra diplomas will buy you a slot on the transition team training your Indian replacement, instead of being one of the first out the door.

[Gatekeeper]

On a side note, what MtG said is true. When I earned my BS in journalism and geography (major/minor), I was told to get out into the real world for at least five years before even considering coming back to pursue a masters/doctorate.

Gatekeeper (who's still in the real world, 5 years, 4 months and counting ... )