Apolyton Strategy Guru's, experts, and journymen: I need your help

[korn469]

Fellow apolytoner's (especially participants of the AU),

A while back I tried to address the problems I had with Civ3 by making a mod for it called the Blitz mod. Because of circumstances in my life I stopped work on it for quite some time. However, the pending release of Conquests has inspired me to resurrect the Blitz Mod. During the creation of the Blitz mod I tried to stick to the following principles:

*better balance throughout the game
*more interesting combat
*a variety of units that encourages combined arms strategies
*scarcity forcing the player to weigh their strategic choices carefully
*more approaches to playing and winning, with less cookie cutter strategies
*slightly more emphasis on real life as an inspiration
*trying to keep the gameplay familar to unmodded civ3

So with those goals in mind this is what I've came up with. I would appreciate all of you to play it a few times and see what you think. I really need feedback in reguards to the following areas, units and governments. Specifically I am wondering if any of my units are unbalanced in your opinion, if you can rely on a single unit to dominate the game, if naval and air units have more of an impact now, and if the governments all have their various uses so that none of them act as a supergovernment.

This is an early version of the implementation, and I haven't added new units, artwork, or updated the civilpedia, but everything should work.

In order to play download the zip file, open it, select extract, and then extract the included files to your PtW Scenarios folder. Then to play start PtW and select new scenario.

In addition to feedback, if you encounter any bugs or problems please let me know. Thanks in advance

korn469

[Rhothaerill]

I can't promise I'll use it right away because I don't have as much time for actual games right now and I'm currently involved in one, but once that one is over I'll try to take a run though this.

[Arrian]

Do you have a readme you can paste into a post?

-Arrian

[korn469]

Arrian

yes and I was in the process of posting it when I got a phone call. lol see my next few posts

[korn469]

arg!

my info is on a thread at civfanatics, which keeps on giving me the "sever too busy" warning!

as soon as it starts working i'll post the readme

[korn469]

__________________________
Blitz Mod Readme
__________________________

Changes to Units

Non-combat Units
Settler 0.0.1 50/3 {Colonist}
*Colonist 0.0.2 50/3 Navigation
Worker 0.0.1 10/1 {Engineer}
*Engineer 0.0.1 10/1 (all terrain as roads) Steam Power
Scout 0.0.2 10 (invisible, hidden nationality, free upkeep) {Conquistador}
Chasqui Scout 1.1.2 10 (imc: hills, mountains) {Scout}
Explorer 0.0.2 20 (invisible, hidden nationality, free upkeep) Astronomy
**Conquistador 4.2.2 40 (invisible, all terrain as roads, blitz, zoc) horses Astronomy {Explorer}
**Army 0.0.2|3 150 (blitz, zoc, pillage, radar +6 hp)

Ancient Land Units
Warrior 2.1.1 20 {Legion}
Enkidu Warrior
Jaguar Warrior 2.1.2 20 (imc: forest, jungle) {Warrior}
Archer 3.1.1 20 {Bezerk}
Bowman 3.2.1 20 {Archer}
Javelineer 4.1.1 20 (enslave) {Bowman}
Swordsman 4.2.1 30 iron {Medieval Infantry}
Gallic Swordsman 5.2.2 40 iron {Swordsman}
Immortal 4.2.1 20 (-1 hp) iron {Gallic Swordsman}
Legion 4.2.1 30 (+2 hp) iron {Immortal}
Spearman 2.2.1 20 {Pikeman}
Hoplite 2.3.1 20 {Spearman}
Impi 2.2.2 20 {Hoplite}
Numideon Mercenary 3.4.1 30 (free upkeep) {Impi}
Chariot 3.1.2 30 (wheeled, zoc) horses {Mounted Warrior}
Three Man Chariot
War Chariot 3.1.2 30 (wheeled, zoc, +2 hp) horses {Chariot}
Horseman 3.1.3 40 (zoc) horses {War Elephant}
Mounted Warrior 3.1.3 40 (blitz, zoc, +1 hp) horses {Horseman}

Middle Age Land Units
Longbowman 7.2.1 40 {Musketeer}
Bezerk 12.4.1 60 (Amphibious, +1 hp) {Longbowman}
Medieval Infantry 8.5.1 50 iron {Rifleman} Chivalry
Pikeman 5.5.1 40 {Musketeer}
Swiss Mercenary 5.8.1 40 {Pikeman}
Musketman 11.11.1 60/1 saltpeter {Rifleman}
Musketeer 14.14.1 60/1 saltpeter {Musketman}
Knight 8.4.2 60 (zoc) iron, horses {Siphai}
Ansar Warrior 9.3.2 50 (blitz, zoc) iron, horses {Knight}
Keshik 8.2.2 40 (imc: mountains, hills, zoc) horses {Ansar Warrior}
Rider 8.4.3 60 (zoc) iron, horses {Keshik}
Samurai 8.6.2 60 (zoc) iron {Rider}
War Elephant 14.10.1 80 (zoc) {Samurai}
Cavalry 15.6.3 80/1 (zoc) horses, saltpeter {Panzer}
Cossack 15.8.4 (zoc) horses, saltpeter {Cavalry}
Siphai 22.6.3 80/1 (zoc) horses, saltpeter {Cossack}

Industrial Era Land Units
Guerrilla 4.1.3 15/1/3 10/2 (invisible, hidden nationality, lethal land bombardment, -3 hp, free upkeep, imc:all) Replaceable parts
Marine 30.15.2 120/1 (amphibious, zoc) rubber
Paratrooper 25.20.2 120/1 (10 air drop range, zoc) rubber
Rifleman 15.15.2 80/1 {Infantry}
Infantry 20.20.2 100/1 rubber
Tank 40.16.3 140/1 (wheeled, blitz, zoc, cannot airlift) iron, oil {Modern Armor}
Panzer 40.16.4 140/1 (wheeled, blitz, zoc, cannot airlift, +1hp, imc:forest) iron, oil {Tank}

Modern Land Units
*Special Forces 40.20.4 150 (amphibious, invisible, see invisible, 10 air drop range, blitz, -4 hp, imc:all) Computers
Tow Infantry 25.25.2 120|1 Computers
Mech Infantry 40.40.4 160/1 (wheeled, blitz, zoc, cannot airlift) iron, oil, rubber Miniturization
Modern Armor 60.20.4 180/1 (wheeled, blitz, zoc, cannot airlift) iron, oil, aluminum

Seige
Catapult 0.1.1 8/1/4 40 (wheeled) iron {Cannon}
Trebuchet
Cannon 0.1.1 18/1/6 80 (wheeled) iron, saltpeter {Artillary}
Hwacha 0.1.1 24/1/6 80 (wheeled) saltpeter
Artillary 0.2.2 25/2/8 120 (helicopter transportable) iron
Radar Artillary 0.2.3 30/2/5 160 (wheeled, blitz, cannot airlift) aluminum, oil

Missile
Cruise Missile 0.0.1 60 40/5/2 (leathal land, leathal sea, can load into Aegis Cruisers and nuclear subs) aluminum
Tactical Nuke 0.0.1 180 10 aluminum, uranium
ICBM 0.0.1 250 aluminum, uranium

Ancient Naval Units
Curragh
Galley 2.2.4 30|2 (wheeled, sink in sea, sink in ocean) {Sloop}
Dromon

Middle Age Naval Units
*Sloop 5.3.5 50 (sink in ocean, imc: sea) {Man-o-War} Astronomy
Caravel 2.3.4 60|3 (-1 hp, sink in ocean, imc: sea) {Galleon}
Carrack
Galleon 2.3.5 80|4 (-1 hp, imc: sea, ocean) {Transport}
Frigate 12.9.2 12/1/1 100 (all terrain as roads, blitz) {Ironclad}
Man-o-War 16.12.2 12/1/1 100 (all terrain as roads, blitz)
Privateer 8.2.7 40 (hidden nationality, imc: sea, ocean) Navigation

Industrial Era Naval Units
Ironclad 20.16.3 20/1/1 120 (all terrain as roads, blitz) iron, coal Steel {Battleship}
Transport 2.5.8 100 (-1 hp, imc: sea, ocean) oil
Battleship 48.38.3 30/2/2 240 (all terrain as roads, blitz) iron, coal, oil
Destroyer 16.26.4 16/1/1 120 (all terrain as roads, blitz) oil {Aegis Cruiser}
Submarine 16.6.3 120 (all terrain as roads, blitz, invisible, detect invisible)
Aircraft Carrier 2.8.3 200|5 (all terrain as roads, blitz, radar) iron, rubber Advanced Flight

Modern Naval Units
Nuclear Sub 16.20.3 180|3 (all terrain as roads, blitz, invisible, detect invisible)
Aegis Cruiser 25.35.4 25/1/1 160|2 (all terrain as roads, blitz, radar, detect invisible, *transport cruise missiles) aluminum, oil

Industrial Era Air Units
Fighter 5.5.2 25/6/2 120 (blitz, lethal sea bombard, *foot soldier) oil {F-15}
Bomber 0.2.1 20/10/6 150 oil, rubber {Jet Bomber}
Helicopter 0.2.3 0/6/0 100 oil, rubber

Modern Air Units
Jet Fighter 20.20.3 35/8/2 180 (blitz, radar, lethal sea bombard) aluminum, oil
F-15 30.30.3 35/8/2 180 (blitz, radar, lethal sea bombard, precision strike, *foot soldier) aluminum, oil {Jet Fighter}
*Jet Bomber 0.6.2 30/14/6 220 (blitz, radar) aluminum, oil Rocketry
Stealth Fighter 0.1.2 32/12/4 250 (blitz, stealth, radar, precision strike) aluminum, oil, uranium
Stealth Bomber 0.1.1 65/120/10 450 (stealth, radar, precision strike) aluminum, oil, uranium

*denotes new unit

[korn469]

__________________________

Changes to Combat Experience
Conscript 3hp 35% retreat
Regular 4hp 50% retreat
Veteran 6hp 60% retreat
Elite 9hp 75% retreat
__________________________

Changes to Terrain
*All terrain defensive bonuses set to 0% except in jungles, forest, hills, and mountains which are unchanged
*Jungle changed to 1.1.0
*Mountains changed to 0.2.0
*Tundra changed to 0.1.0
*Jungle move cost changed to 4
*Mountain’s move cost changed to 4
*Sea’s move cost changed to 2
*Ocean’s move cost changed to 2
*Ocean is now impassable to wheeled units
__________________________

General Settings Changes
*Chance of Rioting is now 50%
*Citizen value in shields is now 25
*Turn Penalty for Each Hurry Sacrifice is now 20
*Turn Penalty for Each Drafted Citizen is now 20
*Future Tech Cost now 500
*Minimum Research Time now 1 turn
*Maximum Research Time now 42 turns
*Cities Needed to Support an Army now 2
*Chance to Intercept Enemy Air Missions now 75%
*Chance to Intercept Enemy Stealth Missions now 4%
*Fortification Defense Bonus now 50%
*Town Defense Bonus now 50%
*City Defense Bonus now 100%
*Metro Defense Bonus now 150%
*Shield cost per gold is now 12 (but extra double effect of wealth added to mass production)
*Citizen Defensive Bonus now 12
*Building Defensive Bonus now 12
*Basic Barbarian is now a Swordsman
*Advanced Barbarian is now a Knight
__________________________

Changes to Citizens
*Scientist now provides 3 research and comes with Education
*Tax Collector now provides 3 taxes and comes with Currency
__________________________

Changes to Difficulty Level

Bonus versus Barbarians removed at Regent and above
All difficulty levels except for chieftain have one less default happy citizen (note: emperor and deity now start at 0 happy citizens)
__________________________

Changes to Diplomats and Spies
*Build an Embassy cost 15
*Investigate City cost 5
*Steal Technology cost 8
*Steal World Map cost 1
*Plant Spy cost 45
*Steal Plans cost 5
*Initiate Propaganda cost 60
*Sabotage Production cost 8
*Expose Enemy Mole cost 60
__________________________

Changes to Governments

Anarchy
0 police
1/1/1 1 support
0 draft
tile penalty
no building upkeep
high war weariness
1 worker rate
0 assimilation
catastrophic corruption
conscript spies
immune to build embassy

Despotism
3 police
3/3/3 1 support
2 draft
tile penalty
no war weariness
1 worker rate
forced labor
0 assimilation
rampant corruption
regular spies

Republic
0 police
0/0/0 3 support +20 free units
1 draft
high war weariness
trade bonus
2 worker rate
paid labor
2 assimilation
problematic corruption
regular spies

Monarchy
2 police
2/3/4 2 support
2 draft
low war weariness
2 worker rate
paid labor
1 assimilation
nuisance corruption
regular spies

Feudalism
2 police
4/1/0 3 support
2 draft
no war weariness
1 worker rate
paid labor
0 assimilation
communal corruption
regular spies

Democracy
0 police
1/2/3 2 support
1 draft
high war weariness
trade bonus
3 worker rate
paid labor
4 assimilation
minimal corruption
regular spies
immune to propaganda

Communism
3 police
2/3/4 1 support
3 draft
no building upkeep
no war weariness
4 worker rate
cannot hurry
3 assimilation
communal corruption
elite spies
immune to investigate city

Fascism
4 police
3/4/6 3 support
3 draft
no war weariness
trade bonus
3 worker rate
forced labor
0 assimilation
nuisance corruption
regular spies
immune to tech steal

[korn469]

__________________________

Changes to Culture

In awe of
Culture Ratio 5:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 60%
Initial Resistance Chance: 20%
Continued Resistance Chance: 10%

Admirers of
Culture Ratio 3:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 45%
Initial Resistance Chance: 35%
Continued Resistance Chance: 25%

Impressed with
Culture Ratio 5:4
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 30%
Initial Resistance Chance: 50%
Continued Resistance Chance: 40%

On par with
Culture Ratio 4:5
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 25%
Initial Resistance Chance: 60%
Continued Resistance Chance: 55%

Unimpressed by
Culture Ratio 1:3
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 15%
Initial Resistance Chance: 75%
Continued Resistance Chance: 70%

Dismissive of
Culture Ratio 1:5
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 5%
Initial Resistance Chance: 90%
Continued Resistance Chance: 85%

Disdainful of
Culture Ratio 1:10
Chance of Successful Propaganda: 1%
Initial Resistance Chance: 100%
Continued Resistance Chance: 98%
__________________________

Changes to Improvements and Wonders

Improvements
Capital
Palace 100/1/0 Center of Empire, +1 Happy

Happiness
Temple 60/1/1 +1 Happy (Religious)
Coliseum 120/2/2 +2 Happy
Cathedral 160/2/2 +3 Happy [Temple] (Religious)

Economic
Marketplace 100/0/1 +50% Tax Output, Increases Luxury Trade (Commercial)
Bank 150/0/3 +50% Tax Output [Marketplace] (Commercial)
*Stock Exchange 220/0/4 +50% Tax Output [Bank] (Commercial) The Corporation

Trade
Harbor 80/0/1 Allows Water Trade, Increases Food in Water (Commercial, Coastal)
Air Port 160/0/2 Allows Air Trade, +50% Luxury Output 1 Pollution {Oil} (Commercial)

Military
Walls 20/0/0 +50% Defense, 12 Bombard Defense (Militaristic)
Coastal Fortress 40/0/1 16 Naval Power, 12 Naval Bombard Defense {Iron, Saltpeter} (Militaristic, Coastal)
Barracks 80/0/2 Veteran Ground Units (Militaristic) Warrior Code
*Naval Base 120/0/3 Veteran Sea Units [Harbor] (Militaristic, Coastal) Astronomy
*Airforce Installation 160/0/4 Veteran Air Units {Oil} (Militaristic) Flight
SAM Missile Battery 120/0/2 Airpower 12 (Militaristic)

Production
*Mill 160/0/2 +25% Production, Must be Near a River; Engineering
Factory 240/0/4 +50% Production, 2 Pollution {Iron}
Manufacturing Plant 320/0/5 +50% Production, 1 Pollution [Factory] {Aluminum}
Coal Plant 160/0/4 +50% Production, 3 Pollution [Factory] {Coal}
Hydro Plant 240/0/4 +50% Production, Must be Near a River [Factory] {Iron}
Solar Plant 320/0/4 +50% Production [Factory] {Rubber}
Nuclear Plant 240/0/4 +100% Production, 1 Pollution, Must be Near Water, Can Explode or Meltdown [Factory] {Uranium}
Offshore Platform 240/0/3 Increases Shields in Water, 2 Pollution (Coastal)

Research
Library 80/1/1 +50% Research Output (Scientific) Writing
University 200/3/3 +50% Research Output [Library] (Scientific)
Research Lab 240/1/4 +50% Research Output [University] (Scientific)

Corruption
Courthouse 80/1/1 Reduces Corruption
*Newspaper 120/1/2 Reduces Corruption, Resistant to Propaganda [Library] Printing Press
Police Station 180/1/2 Reduces Corruption, Reduces War Weariness [Courthouse]

Growth
Granary 60/0/1 Doubles City Growth Rate
Aqueduct 100/0/1 Allows City Size Level 2
Hospital 160/0/2 Allows City Size Level 3

Pollution
Mass Transit 200/0/3 Removes Population Pollution {Rubber}
Recycling Center 200/0/3 Removes Building Pollution

Cultural
*Amphitheater 80/3/1 Literature
*Opera 160/8/2 [Amphitheater] Music Theory
*Museum 240/14/4 [Opera] Atomic Theory
**Obelisk 0/2/0 cannot be built only appears through the Pyramids
__________________________

Wonders
Happiness
Hanging Gardens 300/4/0 3 happy, 1 happy in all cities expires with Steam Power {Ind}
Oracle 300/4/0 [2x Temple] Doubles happiness of temples expires with Theology {Rel}
Sistine Chapel 600/6/0 [2x Cathedral] Doubles happiness of Cathedrals {Rel}
JS Bach's Cathedral 600/6/0 [2x Cathedral] 2 happy, 2 happy in all cities expires with Genetics {Rel, Con}
Cure for Cancer 1000/8/0 [2x Research Lab] 6 happy, 2 happy in all cities {Sci}

Economic
Colossus 200/2/0 +1 trade in all trade producing squares expires with Mass Production {Ex, Com, Coastal)
Wall Street 300/1/0 [4x Stock Exchange] Treasury Earns 5% {Com}

Trade
Great Lighthouse 300/2/0 [2x Harbor] Safe Sea Travel, +1 Ship Movement expires with Magnetism {Exp, Com, Coa}
Magellan's Voyage [2x Harbor] 400/3/0 +1 Ship Movement expires with Nuclear Power {Exp, Com, Coa}
Smith's Trading Company 600/4/0 Pays Maintenance for trade Installations {Com}

Military
Great Wall 200/2/0 Doubles combat vs. Barbs, Doubles City Defense expires with Metallurgy {Mil, Ind}
Sun Tzu's Art of War 600/3/0 Barracks in every city on the continent expires with Motorized Transport{Mil}
Leonardo's Workshop 600/3/0 Halves upgrade cost {Mil}
Universal Suffrage 900/4/0 Reduces war weariness in all cities {Mil}
Manhattan Project 800/2/0 [2x University] Allows all civs to build Nukes {Mil, Sci, Ind} Uranium
Heroic Epic 200/4/0 Increased chance of leaders, Requires a victorious army expires with Military Tradition {Mil, Rel} (note: The Heroic Epic is now a great wonder)
Military Academy 400/1/0 Build armies without leaders {Mil} (note: victorious army requirement removed)
Pentagon 400/1/0 Build larger armies, requires 4 armies, requires a victorious army {Mil}
Strategic Missile Defense 800/1/0 [5x SAM batteries] Decreased chance of missile attacks {Mil, Sci}
Intelligence Agency 400/1/0 Allows spy missions {Mil, Sci}
Battlefield Medicine 500/1/0 [5x Hospital] Healing in enemy territory {Mil}

Production
Hoover Dam 1200/3/0 gain hydro plant in every city on continent, must be near a river {Ind}
Iron Works 400/1/0 +100% production, 4 pollution, requires coal and iron in city radius {Ind}

Research
Great Library 400/4/0 [2x Library] Gain any advances owned by two civs expires with Education {Sci}
Copernicus's Observatory 400/4/0 doubles research output expires with Space Flight {Exp, Sci}
Newton's University 500/5/0 [2x University] doubles research output {Sci}
Theory of Evolution 600/6/0 +2 free advances {Sci}
SETI Program 1200/8/0 [3x University] doubles research output {Sci, Exp}
Apollo Program 500/3/0 build spaceship parts {Sci, Ind} Aluminum

Corruption
Forbidden Palace 150/1/0 reduces corruption {Exp, Rel}

Growth
Longevity 1200/8/0 [2x research Lab] city growth causes +2 pop {Sci, Exp}

Pollution
N/A

Cultural
Pyramids 200/4/0 gives an obelisk in each city on the continent expires with Monotheism {Ind, Rel}
Shakespeare's Theater 400/16/0 [2x Opera] 2 happy, +50% Luxury Output
United Nations 1200/15/0 Allows diplomatic victory {Exp, Com}
__________________________

Space Ship Parts
SS Thrusters 600 Aluminum
SS Engine 1200 Aluminum, Uranium
SS Docking Bay 300 Oil, Rubber
SS Cockpit 600 Aluminum
SS Fuel Cells 300 Uranium, Rubber
SS Life Support System 600 Aluminum
SS Stasis Chamber 600 Aluminum
SS Storage/Supply 300 Oil, Rubber
SS Planetary Party Lounge 300 Oil, Rubber
SS Exterior Casing 1200 Aluminum, Uranium
__________________________

Changes to Resources

*All strategic resources set to have a disappearance rate of 900
*Uranium's Appearance ratio changed from 100 to 80
*Oil can now be in plains
*Game can now be in jungle
__________________________

Changes to Technology

*Moved Map Trading from Map Making to Printing Press
*Moved Communication trading from Writing to Navigation
*Moved Mutual Protection Pacts from Nationalism to Espionage
*Moved appearance of Aluminum to Mass Production
*Moved appearance of Uranium to Atomic Theory
*Gunpowder now has Education as a prereq in addition to invention
*Advanced Flight is now a required tech
__________________________

[Theseus]

"...familiar to unmodded Civ3"

Your kidding, right?

Looks interesting... maybe when there is another lull (like before AUSG101) I'll give it a run.

[korn469]

"...familiar to unmodded Civ3"

Your kidding, right?

Theseus

lol, no i wasn't, but that makes it even funnier right?

while there are many many changes i wanted it to a have a similar feel, like if you know civ3, then it would only take one possibly two games to know exactly what is going on in the blitz mod

[Theseus]

I was sorta giving you grief there.

I can see from the balance of the changes to military units that it DOES still feel like stock, albeit with much higher values. Everything is relative, neh?

A couple of Ancient units jumped out at me: WCs and MWs are overwhelming for the era, although, not, of course, across eras (a key problem with stock... can we say Sipahi?... which you have obviously been trying to address).

Looks cool.

[Arrian]

The Gallic Swordsman is the one that jumped out at me: 5/2/2 40 shields!! I know some of the defenders are beefed up, but still!

The best ancient defender I saw in there was the Numidian, with a 4 defense. Then the Hoplite at 3, and everything else has a 2 defense. Against a 5 attack, 2 move unit? That should be a slaughter.

And the MW... 4/1/3 with blitz... YIKES

Then it looks like the defenders get crazy in the mid-middle ages (musketmen are hardcore).

I dunno... there are tons of changes in there. Some of them are interesting, for sure.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

I agree: most if not all of the changes to units favor the attacker. This may actually turn out okay because the AI likes to counter-attack, but it means there's no place left for Spearmen, Pikemen or anything else. The whole idea behind defense in Civ3 is that if you a player is willing to sit there and do nothing, he's going to be more difficult to beat up on. With your mod it's all offense.

I've only glanced through it (nice work, by the way!), and the other change that strikes me is the Scout: Hidden Nationality, Invisible, and free upkeep can really screw up the AI. Seems to me like you can just park your Scouts on every resource available and the AI will never do anything about it, unless they have some other reason to move a military unit onto that tile.


Dominae

[alexman]

It's very difficult to balance a mod with so many changes, and even more difficult to have the AI understand the new strategies that the changes bring.

Here are a couple of things I noticed right away:

The Colonist (2-move Settler) can be abused as an offensive weapon: move one tile into enemy territory, and settle. Couple that with railroads and loose AI city spacing, and you can conquer any continent in a single turn.

Marketplaces and airports offer +50% on luxury spending, but the AI doesn't use the luxury slider.

Your more powerful artillery won't convince the AI to build more of them, nor to use them offensively.

The AI doesn't transport cruise missiles, even if you give your ships the ability to do so.

Your Fascism seems extremely powerful, both as a wartime and peacetime government. Your Communism seems even weaker than the stock version.

Still, I see that many of your changes have made into the stock version of PTW and Conquests. Good job pioneering modding for Civ3!

[David Murray]

This broth is spoiled. Time to sack some of those cooks!

[korn469]

Thanks for the feedback!

here are the most important points you raised

A couple of Ancient units jumped out at me: WCs and MWs are overwhelming for the era, although, not, of course, across eras

I will take a closer look to see what i can do about these two units in particular, I feel that the GS is fine, my main concern is all UUs being on par moreso, so if jag Warriors, Impi's and Immortals all are about 30% better than their base unit I want the WC and MW to be the same

The best ancient defender I saw in there was the Numidian, with a 4 defense. Then the Hoplite at 3, and everything else has a 2 defense. Against a 5 attack, 2 move unit? That should be a slaughter

but it means there's no place left for Spearmen, Pikemen or anything else. The whole idea behind defense in Civ3 is that if you a player is willing to sit there and do nothing, he's going to be more difficult to beat up on. With your mod it's all offense.

I don't think that it is the slaughter you think it will be. I'm not sure if you put all of the changes together, but now grasslands for example will provide a 0 defensive bonus instead of 10%, however when you fortify a unit it now has a 50% defense bonus instead of a 25% bonus, and towns now have a 25% bonus, so a regular swordsman versus a regular spearman would come out so that the swordsman would win 59 to 41% of the time, however, it costs 50% more than a spearman...

Scout: Hidden Nationality, Invisible, and free upkeep can really screw up the AI. Seems to me like you can just park your Scouts on every resource available and the AI will never do anything about it, unless they have some other reason to move a military unit onto that tile

scouts and explorers can no longer pillage, so their is nothing they can do to interfer with the AI...one cool thing about being hidden nationality, invisable, and zero attack or defense is that as long as you aren't at war with an AI it can move its military units across even on top of yours (ie: they have a unit in the same square as your scout at the end of the turn)

i'll also take another look at fascism and comunism

David

while too many cooks may ruin the broth, two (or more) heads are better than one, I don't want to overlook something, and having other people point out the flaws is helpful...it at least gives me something to think about

[Arrian]

scouts and explorers can no longer pillage, so their is nothing they can do to interfer with the AI...one cool thing about being hidden nationality, invisable, and zero attack or defense is that as long as you aren't at war with an AI it can move its military units across even on top of yours (ie: they have a unit in the same square as your scout at the end of the turn)

Wow, didn't know that.

Also, I confess I didn't look closely enough at the defensive bonus stuff (I saw the zero bonus on grass/plains, but didn't see the increased fortification bonus). Going back to the CivII fortification bonus, eh?

Anyway, so a fortified spearman in a town = 3.5 defense, then? 5.2.2's are still going to mow them down, but it isn't as bad as I thought initially.

-Arrian

[korn469]

Anyway, so a fortified spearman in a town = 3.5 defense, then? 5.2.2's are still going to mow them down, but it isn't as bad as I thought initially.

an average spearman in a town would be 3.5 cost 20 shields
an average spearman in a town with walls would be 4.5 cost 40 shields total
an average spearman in a city would be 4 cost 20 shields

hopelite in a town would be 5.25 cost 20 shields
hopelite in a town with walls would be 6.75 cost 40 shields
hopelite in a city would be 6 cost 20 shields

nm in a town would be 7 cost 30 shields
nm in a town with walls would be 9 cost 50 shields
nm in a city would be 8 cost 30 shields

GS cost 50 shields
it has a 1.43 attack advantage over a normal spearman in a city, yet it cost 2.5 times as much...so if you bring 4 GS against 10 spearmen in 4 towns for example, you might have a tougher time weeding them out than what it seems at first