US Visas and machine readable passports

Rogan Josh · September 23, 2003, 12:21

The US has been planning on changing the visa waiver programme, as of Oct 1 2003, to insist that anyone with a passport that is not machine readable needs a visa.

I have just discovered that my passport is not machine readable

, so it looks like my trip to the US next week might be up **** creek (there is no way I could get a visa or a new passport in time).

But, I have found a few articles on the web saying that this has been postponed to Oct 1 2004, e.g. http://www.iht.com/articles/109886.html . Unfortunately these are all unofficial and the official pages, i.e. http://travel.state.gov/vwp.html , all say that it will come into force on Oct 1 2003.

I also phoned the US consulate here (at $1.30 a minute!!) and they say it is effective from Oct 1 2003 (although despite the extortionate charge they didn't seem to know their arses from their elbows).

Does anyone know the real deal here?

SpencerH · September 23, 2003, 12:23

As long as you arrive before oct 1 (and dont make side trips out of the country) it wont matter.

Japher · September 23, 2003, 12:24

I heard it was being postponed, but I'm not sure. Perhaps a little snooping will do?

Rogan Josh · September 23, 2003, 12:26

Quote:

Originally posted by SpencerH
As long as you arrive before oct 1 (and dont make side trips out of the country) it wont matter.

I'm not - my flight is on the 4th (how's that for bad planning?).

Japher · September 23, 2003, 12:32

Well, lots of important people seem to think it's postponed. Unless your from Belgium.

http://www.aci-na.org/asp/pressdetail.asp?art=792
http://www.obv.org.uk/reports/2003/rpt20030909e.html

Call the US embassy where you are and ask.

I searched Visa waver program and found lots of .org and .gov ppl saying it's been pushed back to Oct. 1, 2004...

SpencerH · September 23, 2003, 12:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Rogan Josh

I'm not - my flight is on the 4th (how's that for bad planning?).

You're in Paris arent you? I would think you could get a visitors visa pretty quickly.

HershOstropoler · September 23, 2003, 12:50

RJ:

"there is no way I could get a visa or a new passport in time"

I looked at the US embassy in Vienna, and they have Oct 1st 2003; the page has been updated late August. Are you sure you can't get a passport from the next UK consulate within time? Here they were usually quite quick when you explained that it was urgent...

"(although despite the extortionate charge they didn't seem to know their arses from their elbows)."

I know someone who has worked at the US embassy, according to her they would be prime comedy material.

Oerdin · September 23, 2003, 12:53

If all you want is a tourist visa then any EU citizen should be able to get one in less then a day.

HershOstropoler · September 23, 2003, 13:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Japher
http://www.obv.org.uk/reports/2003/rpt20030909e.html

That article seems to explain it:

Quote:

The countries are being required to provide a written request to the State Department of their desire to have their citizens exempted from the new rules until next year.
...

American officials said the move to postpone enforcement of the rules followed a vigorous debate between the State Department, where senior officials felt that enforcement of the rules had to be delayed to avoid turmoil for foreign travelers, and the Department of Homeland Security, where officials believed that the new passport rules were a valuable antiterrorist tool and needed to be enforced as quickly as possible.

The officials said the Department of Homeland Security agreed to the one-year waiver, but only after insisting that the foreign governments provide written assurances of their commitment to ending passport fraud and to introducing machine-readable passports.

So it's a bureaucratic turf war, and apparently no one knows whether those "requests" and "assurances" have been given, are sufficient etc. And the embassy people will try to be on the safe side, so they say 2003.

Rogan Josh · September 23, 2003, 13:10

Apparently because of the Patriot act, to get a visa (even a tourist visa) you have to have a personal appointment with US embassy staff. The earliest appointment they have is Nov 11

I am fairly sure it has been pushed back - I am now just searching for something official that I can print off the show the customs guards.....

Rogan Josh · September 23, 2003, 14:02

Hmmmm..... the UK passport office (who I just called) tell me that the restriction is in force from Oct 1 2003. What a mess.

I' ll try phoning the US embassy in London tomorrow I think. They must know surely.

Arrian · September 23, 2003, 14:23

Quote:

I' ll try phoning the US embassy in London tomorrow I think. They must know surely.

Sorry to laugh at your situation (in your position, I'd be really annoyed), but the chances of a U.S. government outfit actually knowing what it (and any other part of the U.S. government) is doing are akin to being struck by a meteorite.

-Arrian

HershOstropoler · September 23, 2003, 18:15

I can't remember who said this (I think some European), but it might be an accurate description:

"American bureaucracy is amazingly friendly, stunningly incompetent and universally hated."

DAVOUT · September 24, 2003, 07:58

We have to recognize that this valuable antiterrorist tool is quite effective in preventing Rogan Josh from entering the States.

Rogan Josh · September 24, 2003, 08:05

So here is the official lowdown. We contacted the US State Dept. and they say that officially I will need a visa (or machine readable passport) to enter after 1st Oct 2003. But a decision will be made this week as to whether or not to postpone this by a year to 1st Oct 2004.

So basically I have to wait it out and see what happens.

Rogan Josh · September 24, 2003, 08:07

PS: It is just me, or is it a bit ridiculous that the US embassy won't tell you whether or not you need a visa unless you give them money up front?

Edit: The Paris US Embassy visa help-line is really funny actually. This recorded female voice tells you to have your credit card ready because the embassy staff won't answer any questions until they have charged $14.50 to your credit card.

laurentius · September 24, 2003, 08:09

Yes, anything their machine can't read must have something to do with terrorism.

MikeH · September 24, 2003, 08:11

What a joke.

MikeH · September 24, 2003, 08:19

http://www.visapro.com/B2-Visa/B2-Tourist-Visa.asp

Would this help? Expensive but only takes a day.

Rogan Josh · September 24, 2003, 08:22

ssshhh! I don't really want to go... I really want proof that I won't be let in so I can get out of it.

MikeH · September 24, 2003, 08:24

OK...

just found this:

How Does the VWP Work?
The VWP permits nationals from designated countries to apply for admission to the United States for ninety (90) days or less as nonimmigrant visitors for business or pleasure without first obtaining a nonimmigrant visa. If the following requirements are met, the Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of State, may designate a country as a participant in the program:
The country offers reciprocal travel privileges to U.S. citizens;
Nationals of the country have a low refusal rate for U.S. visas;
The country issues or certifies that it will issue a machine-readable passport not later than October 1, 2003;
The country will begin issuing a machine-readable passport to its citizens not later than October 1, 2003;
The Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of State, prepares a report evaluating the effect the country's designation would have on the United States’ law enforcement and security interests; and
The Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of State, determines that the country’s designation for the program would not compromise U.S. law enforcement or national security interests (including interests in enforcing immigration laws).

http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/...spect/vwpp.htm

What Countries Are in the VWP?
The following countries are currently in the program:

Andorra, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and The United Kingdom

So... from that I think that UK citizens currently don't need a visa.

MikeH · September 24, 2003, 08:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
ssshhh! I don't really want to go... I really want proof that I won't be let in so I can get out of it.

Oh... sorry.

MikeH · September 24, 2003, 08:25

Quickly get convicted of a drugs related offence.

Oerdin · September 24, 2003, 11:12

You could always grow a beard, tell them your name is Mohammed, and keep screaming about "Allah" and “infidels” all of the time. That ought to get your visa application denied.

Then again remembering how screwed up our system is they might just let you go on in.

Japher · September 24, 2003, 11:28

MikeH: I saw that line before and it seems to say that you only need a machine readable passport if it was issued after Oct.1, 2003, but that is not how it is being interpreted or inforced...

Oerdin: I think Rogan would have a better chance of getting in if he just says his name is Jose

MikeH · September 24, 2003, 11:36

Yeah but you don't need a machine readable passport, just be part of a country that will be issuing them... that's the way I understood that anyway.

SpencerH · September 24, 2003, 11:49

Thats the current rule that will be changed Oct 1/03 (or maybe 04) to require machine read passports or visa.

MikeH · September 24, 2003, 12:24

It doesn't say that on the official site.

It says it requires that the government of the country must start to issue machine readable passports by that date.

MikeH · September 24, 2003, 12:26

BTW. How can Rogan Josh have a non-machine readable passport if we started issuing them in the '80s?

They scanned my passport at LAX now I think about it.

Rogan Josh · September 24, 2003, 12:47

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeH
BTW. How can Rogan Josh have a non-machine readable passport if we started issuing them in the '80s?

It is because my passport was issued by an embassy abroad, not by the UK passport agency. My old passport was machine readable but it expired last year. The embassy hadn't the equipment to make machine readable passports but declined to tell me, which is why I didn't notice until this week.

I am rather pissed off about it because now I have to pay an extra $60 to get a machine readable one.

(Even more annoying - I got my passport in April and in May they got the equipment to make machine readable ones.)