OCC 2003 Comparison Game #2

[solo]

There was not much discussion beyond that thread, which is why most players do not know (or remember) that Paul decided to ban the use of this trick in his subsequent fortnightly OCC comparison games.

[duke o' york]

Could anyone bump, or even just link to, the thread with a summary of the rules decided for these OCC comparisons. I'm going to play it this weekend and would like to keep things above board, even if the Celts decide to wipe me off the globe through no fault of my own.

[solo]

Below are the set of rules from Paul's Guide, which is the standard. I think that for this game the size one settler trick is perfectly okay to use, because the Guide was never formally updated to prohibit its use. For future OCC games, I think it should be up to the person starting them to define any extra rules for their particular game.

(from Paul's OCC Strategy Guide)

1.2. RULES
You are allowed to settle one city. You are not allowed to settle more cities or to get cities through conquest or bribery. It is of course not allowed to access the cheat menu. It is also not allowed to reload a game to change anything that did not go as you wanted it to go. There is only one occasion where reloading is allowed which is explained in section 1.2.2 (advanced tribes).

1.2.1. GAME SETUP

A game must be started with the following options set: random map, raging hordes, 7 civilizations. You may also start a game by loading a one city comparison game. Results of comparison games will only be recognized if they are made at the first attempt on the game. See section 3 (comparison games) for more details.

1.2.2. ADVANCED TRIBES

If a goody hut results in an advanced tribe you should reload. The easiest way to handle this is to save the game just before you enter the hut. You can then just reload that save and enter the hut again. If you forget to save you may reload the autosave from the beginning of the turn. In that case you must move your units the same as the first time, you must handle all diplomatic contacts the same way as the first time, all battles must have the same outcome (not only the winner, but also the amount of damage) and any huts you entered before the one that gave the advanced tribe must also give the same results as the first time you played the turn.



1.3. COMPARISON GAMES
In order to be able to compare results of players in similar circumstances comparison games may be distributed. In order to prevent players from getting advantages by knowing the map and the other civilizations in the game results of comparison games will only be recognized if they are made at the first attempt. Results of second and later attempts at the same game will not be recognized.

1.3.1. COMPARISON GAME SETUP

A comparison game must be started with the same options as set in section 1.2.1 (game setup). The game may be saved in 4000 BC, but if you want to give players more equal circumstances from goody huts you may also save at a later year. In the second case the following restrictions apply: the game may not be saved later than 3000 BC, you may not yet have settled a city and you may not have made contact with other civilizations.

1.3.2. COMPARISON GAME DISTRIBUTION

A comparison game must be made available to all players who want to play it either by e-mail or by making it available for download from the internet. The existence of a comparison game must be published on the Apolyton Civ2 Strategy forum where you must also announce how players can get a copy of the comparison game. You can find some comparison games in section 3 (downloads) where you can also find my email address if you have a comparison game you want to make available for download from this site.



1.4. TRICKS AND CHEATS
Civilization II has some features that are not described in the manual. Some players consider the use of these features as cheating, others don't. We have had a vote among OCC players at Apolyton to decide how to deal with these features. This vote has resulted in the following results:

1.4.1. AIRBASES ON HILLS

Besides their official effects airbases also work as farmland and railroads. This gives players extra food on mined hills. The majority of the voters decided that it should NOT be allowed to build airbases on hills in the city radius.

1.4.2. "SUPERSTACK"

Bombers can only be attacked by (stealth) fighters. This means that if you let a bomber end its turn on the same square as one of your units that unit can't be attacked by other units except fighters. The majority of the voters decided that you may use this feature in OCC games.

1.4.3. MINING THE CITY SQUARE

If you build your city on a hill you can't mine that hill. However, if you start mining the hill and build a city on that hill before the mine is finished you can get a mine on the city square. The majority of the voters decided that you are allowed to mine your city square.

1.4.4. INCREMENTAL RUSHBUYING

Rushbuying a unit is cheaper if you first buy the cheapest unit you can build, then switch to the next cheapest, buy that and so on until you buy the unit that you wanted to build. This incremental rushbuying may be used in OCC games.

1.4.5. FOOD CARAVAN TRICK

It has recently been discovered that a city can use food caravans to set up food trade routes with itself. Using this trick it is also possible to get your city to grow in population even if you have a food shortage. It is not known exactly in what circumstances this will work and it may be version specific. This use of food caravans is NOT allowed in OCC games. You are of course still allowed to use caravans to help build wonders or to disband them to contribute to whatever you are building.

[Elephant]

Thanks, Solo, for reposting Paul's rules. Some are obviously designed for the Fortnightly Games. For the purposes of this round I was assuming a continuation of the rules SG(1) set up. Just to clarify, though: FCT and Airbase on Hill are OUT, Size 1 Settler is IN, though the starter of the next round may change that. Personally I think the challenge of OCC should extend to the "in flight" period as well; if not then it would be much easier to defend with multiple conquered or fast-grown cities. The no-palace trick would also then be available too.

My goal in this game was to encourage those who are new or rusty with OCC to give it a go.

[duke o' york]

I wouldn't consider myself either new or particularly rusty, but I still didn't manage to win it!
I have to admit to some Gittish consumption during the game, and foolishly played it in one sitting, which meant that I was doing really well until the late game when the wine started to take it's effect.
I had a Hides repeater to Berlin, which paid out vast amounts and set me up really nicely, but I threw it all away at the end by forgetting where I'd put the sheet showing how many SS sections I needed, getting all mixed up, and also foolishly giving Fusion Power to the Germans just because they turned up outside my city with three dragoons and demanded it as the price of maintaining our alliance. The barbs decimated my farmland later on, but by then I was just trying to buy SS parts. I forgot to sell my library, uni and research lab when I got Fusion Power, and just generally made a hash of the ending.
Got what I deserved though. Doubt that I'll go back and play the game from one of my middle ages saves, when I was doing well. I'll just start another from scratch!

[Grigor]

Solo, thanks for the clarification. I didn't recall the OCC discussion here that you bumped, but I do remember a later one at CFC where it was decided that it was OK. It might be difficult to get a meaningful group opinion now - polls are easier now but posters are rarer. I think the comparison game poster (in this case Solo) should be able to decide the rules. If you prefer I will eschew my favorite opening ploy from future OCC games.

In my defence, I did have to work the gold mountain in this game for several turns in order to achieve the size one settler, which I thought qualified as a strategy decision (...)

[solo]

Grigor,

I agree that whoever starts the game should decide the rules, and this game was started by Elephant who has permitted use of size one settler. It's fun to use, when allowed, and I guess I was just lamenting my lost opportunity. No need to make a defense when none was needed.

[Elephant]

Wish I had thought of it too. But I think I went Rep in 1650 too (I'm at the wrong machine right now) so it may not have mattered.

[solo]

OCC 2003 Comparison Game #2

I have finished typing my log. My arrival date was 1797, so was able to slip in before the 1800’s in spite of some minor bad luck and some OCC rust.

BC years

4000 hut – archer, Tenochtitlan founded
3850 warrior, hut – 50g
3750 Alphabet
3450 Size 2
3400 contact Germans – peace, trade for Ceremonial Burial

This allowed Monarchy right after Code of Laws, so my original plan of going straight for Republic was discarded.

3350 Code of Laws
3250 temple
3100 Babylonians destroyed by barbarian raiders
2950 hut – Monarchy
2900 revolution
2850 govt. to Monarchy
2750 settlers; Germans – give tech, 50g tribute
2650 warrior
2550 Bronze Working, warrior, Germans – give tech, 100g tribute
2100 Currency
1650 Size 3, Germans – give tech, alliance
1250 Size 4
1050 contact Romans – peace, Trade
1000 Marco Polo’s Embassy, Romans – trade for Writing

MPE was so useful in early landing games, it was given preference over the Colossus, which is usually the first OCC wonder. Since OCC games last longer than EL games, MPE is even more effective because the AI have more time to learn techs that can be traded for. So researching Trade took priority over early Republic and SSC growth.

Delaying SSC growth has other benefits: A pathetic power rating allows more alliances, resulting in more gold in the form of gifts. Also, by delaying my own research speed early on, the AI gain more time to acquire techs, allowing more of the non-essential intervening ones to be skipped. For example, in this game I never needed to acquire Masonry or Map Making, which helped reduce tech carrying costs later on.

850 dye
750 Zulus – give tech, alliance
700 gold caravan, Literacy dye(d) to Berlin, 84g
675 Germans – agree to alliance against the Romans for 150g
650 library
600 marketplace, Republic, English – trade for Mysticism, alliance, 100g gift; gold(d) to Berlin, 132g

550 Germans – trade for Construction, 25g gift; revolution
525 govt. to Republic
475 Banking
450 hides
400 hides
375 Americans – peace, give tech, alliance, trade for The Wheel; Indians – peace, alliance, 200g gift; silk to berlin, 66g, third trade route established

325 Philosophy, Medicine

Now with alliances in place, it’s time to grow. Eight turns after each alliance is formed, allies can be pumped for gold as long as my power rating is lower, so it’s best to ally with the strongest AI.

300 hides, we love begins
275 Size 5; Zulus – give tech, 50g gift
250 Size 6; hides; Indians – trade for Iron Working; Zulus – 50g gift; Germans – trade for Mathematics, give tech, 50g gift

225 Size 7; Germans – 25g gift
200 acqueduct
100 Americans – 125g gift
75 Shakespeare’s Theater, we love resumes; Engineering; Americans – 125g gift
50 Size 8
25 Size 9, Germans – give tech, 50g gift

AD years

1 Size 10
20 Size 11, Indians – trade for Bridge Building, 100g gift; Zulus – give tech
40 Size 12, food
60 Americans – 50g gift
80 food, road complete to Berlin for trade route bonuses

By skipping non-essential techs this AI connection allowed the possibility of 1 turn advances later in the game when science was maxed out. Usually techs can only be acquired every two turns in OCC. Not too many one turn advances occurred in my own game, since I ended up with a Moderate power rating when my SSC reached full size. I inadvertantly became my own key civ, making techs about 200 beakers more expensive than what they might have been. One turn advances were only possible a few times and on turns when a freight could be delivered to supplement SSC beakers. The other thing I missed out on was building the Colossus, which the Indians beat me to. I expect other players may have had fewer minor misfortunes and managed more one turn advances for a better landing date.

120 we love resumes, Sanitation
140 Americans – trade for Seafaring, 50g gift
160 sewer system, Size 13, English – peace, give tech
180 Size 14
200 harbor, Size 15
220 Size 16, Zulus – give tech; Americans – 50g gift; English – give tech
240 Size 17, wool

At this time the Romans were getting the better of my German ally in “our” war, and I was starting to wish I hadn’t allied against them. The German power rating and bank account took a dive and the Romans ones grew, as did my longing for their untapped horde of gold and their knowledge of Astronomy. So I decided risk German ire by contacting the Romans. It turns out the Germans had become so weakened by the Romans and appeased by my tech gifts that they never became a threat. In fact, they reformed another alliance with me later in the game.

260 Size 18, Romans – trade for Astronomy
280 Size 19
300 Size 20, food, university; English – give tech, Americans – 50g gift
320 Size 21, we love ends
360 food, Zulus & Indians – give tech
420 food, Theory of Gravity
440 Copernicus’s Observatory
460 Romans – trade for Invention; Americans – 50g gift
480 Chemistry
500 university, Size 22, we love resumes
540 Gunpowder, Americans – 50g gift
560 wool, Size 23
580 Germans – give tech
600 food
620 Explosives, Romans – trade for Democracy
640 Engineers, English – give tech
660 Americans – give tech, 100g gift
680 Engineers, Navigation
700 bank, govt. to Democracy
720 food, we love resumes
740 food, Size 22
760 Physics, Size 23, Zulus - trade for Economics, 50g gift
780 food, Zulus – 50g gift, Americans – 100g gift
800 coal, Steam Engine, Germans – give tech
840 food, Zulus – 50g gift, Americans – 100g gift
860 food
880 Railroad
900 food
920 Sir Isaac Newton’s College, Industrialization
940 Romans – give tech, alliance, 75g gift
960 factory, Magnetism, Germans – give tech, new alliance!
980 Zulus – give tech, 100g gift, Americans – give tech 150g gift
1000 stock exchange, The Corporation
1040 coal, Atomic Theory, Indians – give tech
1060 food, Refining
1120 food, Metallurgy
1160 copper, Electricity, Germans – give tech, coal(d) to Rome, 302g
1180 Combustion
1200 oil, Steel
1220 Germans – give tech
1240 food
1260 Automobile, copper(d) to Neapolis, 186g, Romans – trade for Leadership, 150g gift
1280 superhighways, Mass Production, Germans – trade for Conscription
1300 mass transit, Romans – give tech, Zulus – give tech, 50g gift, Americans – 100g gift
1340 food
1360 Flight
1380 food
1400 Machine Tools
1420 food
1440 Electronics
1460 wool, Romans – give tech, Zulus – give tech, 50g gift, Americans – give tech, 100g
1480 Nuclear Fission
1500 gems
1510 hydro plant, Nuclear Power
1520 diplomat
1530 Radio
1540 food, Romans – 150g gift
1550 Miniaturization, Zulus – 50g gift, Americans – 100g gift
1560 offshore platform
1570 food, Computers, wool to Rome, 153g
1580 research lab, Laser
1590 food, Advanced Flight, gems to berlin, 91g; oil to Berlin, 91g
1600 food, Rocketry, Romans – trade for Mobile Warfare; Americans – 100g gift
1610 food
1620 food, Space Flight
1630 Apollo Program
1640 coal, Plastics, coal(d) to Berlin, 232g
1650 coal, Superconductor, coal(d) to berlin, 232g
1660 oil, Robotics
1670 manufacturing plant
1680 SS Module #1, Fusion Power
1690 M #2, Romans – 150g gift
1700 SS Component #1
1710 SS Structural #1
1720 C #2
1730 S #2
1740 S #3
1750 S #4
1752 S #5
1754 S #6
1756 S #7
1758 S #8
1760 S #9
1762 S #10
1764 S #11
1766 S #12
1768 S #13
1770 S #14
1772 S #15
1774 M #3
1776 C #3
1778 C #4
1780 C #5
1782 C #6, launch 15-3-3-1-1-1, ETA 1797
1783 armor
1784 armor
1785 armor
1786 engineers
1787 coastal fortress
1788 SAM missile battery
1789 SDI defense
1790 engineers
1791 Manhattan Project
1792 SETI Program
1795 Hoover Dam
1797 Arrival on Alpha Centauri

OCC is still a lot of fun. Many thanks to Elephant for starting this game.

[TimTheEnchanter]

Heard about this game from Elephant over at CFC and finally got a chance to play it out.

Summary
Launch 1784, Landing 1799

Government changes with dates
Republic 1850 BC
Democracy 220 AD

WoWs with dates
Colossus 775 bc
Copernicus' Observatory 350bc
Shakespeare's Theatre 20ad
Isaac Newton's College 520ad
Darwin's Voyage 1380ad
Apollo Program 1660ad


Dates of first three trade routes
1450 bc - hides Berlin
1250 bc - Wool Berlin
1200 bc - Silk Berlin

Landmark techs with dates:
Trade - 1850 bc
Construction - 675bc
Sanitation - 1ad
Refrigeration - 880 ad
Automobile - 1100 ad
Computers- 1440 ad
Space Flight - 1650 ad

Dates of Population landmarks
8 - 40ad
12 - 120 ad
28 (max) - 1440 ad

General Comments
- Got a great start thanks to cash in huts and barb leaders
- Used extra settler "feature" to speed growth to size 3. Then went for early republic to celebrate. The only citizen who came from filling food box was the 2nd. #3 was the free built-in settler and all others were from celebrations. I think the early republic approach was quite useful in getting going fast.
- Did very little exploring/meeting others after initial adventures finding germans and romans. Eventually got alliance with Germans and never lost it.
- Berlin was trading partner for all routes. Roads and RR established on the prime route as early as feasible. Trade routes maxed out at +40 each because berlin never grew beyond size 8.
- Not making contact with other civs probably cost some on trading opportunities and beaker costs, but I'm not sure I could have gotten 1 turn techs at any point either way.
- It was interesting being short on Vans when it was time to build the ship (Only 14 or 15 available when Apollo completed). However, once techs were done, I quickly made more than enough cash to finish everything. I had to take 2 turns off from building the spaceship to build Stealth fighters to knock back a significant horde of barb fanatics and artillery. They were never a real threat but they posed a nuisance and could have potentially pillaged my improvements.
- Occupying the 1 square isthmus just below Berlin made it very easy to keep my city safe at the end when the Romans got a little pissy.
- Techs I did not need to research/obtain : Combined Arms, Environmentalism, Feudalism, Fundy, Gen Eng., Monarchy, Monotheism, Polytheism, Pottery, Recycling, Theology, Warrior code. Amphibious warfare was completed after launch, but was completely unnecessary. (I was messing around with tax rate and forgot to zero out science for a few turns)
- This is by far my earliest OCC finish, and also my first early republic bid. Not sure if the two are directly related or not.
- I left out early fighting (primarily barbs) from the log, and tried to limit discussions of diplomacy to techs I received, money changing hands, and changes in status (peace, war, etc)

Log to follow...

[TimTheEnchanter]

4000bc Hut 100 gold
Timotitlan Founded
3800 Alphabet->Code of Laws
3700 Hut gold 50
3600 Hut horse supported
3350 Code of Laws->Writing
3150 Build settler into city, Size 3
3000 Writing->Ceremonial Burial
2950 Mine silk special
-- Library built
-- Find Berlin, meet germans. Exchange pottery for writing? No. Peace. Alliance? No.
2850 Hut - none horse
2700 CerBurial ->Literacy
-- Meet romans - peace, give Cer Bur. No ally
-- Timotitlan diplomat
-- hut 100g
2350 Literacy->Republic
2300 Kill barb leader - 150g!!
-- Germans offer alliance! Yes!!
-- Temple
2050 Embassy with Germans
-- Pheasant chopped down, buffalo show up
1950 Republic ->Mysticism
1900 Revolution
1850 Republic Govt. Tax 2/6/2
-- Ger: Exchange Literacy for Trade, Republic for Currency
1800 Carvan: Hides
1750 WLTCD
1700 Wool Caravan
-- Size 4
1650 Size 5, can't celebrate Tax 1/6/3
1550 Silk Caravan
1500 Mysticism ->Masonry
1450 Hides van to Berlin (nd-62)
1350 WLTCD
1300 Marketplace
-- Masonry->Mathematics
-- Size 6
-- Tax 1/6/3
1250 Size 7
-- Wool to Berlin (D-140g) Route 2
1200 Gold Caravan
-- Mathematics ->Astronomy
-- Silk to Berlin (nd-74) Route 3
1100 Settler
1050 WLTCD
1000 Astronomy -> Bronze working
975 Food Caravan
-- Romans - exchange trade for Bronze working, they demand masonry, give it,
-- back to size 7
925 Research->Philosophy
-- Give masonry to Germans (researching it)
900 Food Caravan
-- Gold Van to Berlin (nd-78g) demand dried up en route
875 Philosophy->Golden Age (University)-> Medicine
850 Food Caravan
800 Food Caravan
775 Colossus
725 Food Caravan
675 Romans - philosophy for Iron working
-- Germans - philosophy for Construction, University for Banking
650 Barb leader killed 150g.
625 Barb leader killed 150g.
-- Food Caravan
575 Bank
550 American ship attacks city, Caravan promoted to vet status
525 University
475 Food Caravan
450 Medicine ->Bridge Building
-- germans-50g
425 Food Caravan
375 Food Caravan
350 Cope's
300 Dye caravan (Berlin demand)
-- Bridge Building ->Theory of Gravity
-- Bridge flash built near Berlin completes road bonus up to +9 routes
250 Food Caravan
-- Kill barb leader 150g
200 Food Caravan
-- Theory of Gravity ->Horseback riding
-- Dye to Berlin (d-196g)
-- Romans - trade construction for HBR
175 Research -> The wheel
150 Dye caravan (Berlin demand)
-- The Wheel ->Engineering
100 Food Caravan
-- Enginering ->Sanitation
75 Food Caravan
-- Dye to Berlin (d-200g)
25 Food Caravan
1ad Food Caravan
-- Sanitation->Chemistry
20 Shakepeare's Theatre
-- WLTCD
-- Germans 150g
40 size 8
60 Aquaduct
80 Chemistry ->Invention
100 Sewer
120 size 12
140 Dye caravan (Berlin demand)
160 Invention->Democracy
180 Food Caravan
200 Germans talk to dye carvan - gift 50g
-- Dye no longer demanded
220 Food Caravan
-- Democracy->Economics
-- Revolution (instant)
-- Democracy Government
260 Food Caravan
-- Germans - Trade democracy for seafaring
300 Harbor
-- Economics ->Gunpowder
340 Size 23
360 Gunpowder->explosives
380 oops WLTPD Cancelled
-- Explosives ->Map Making
-- Give up on dye demand, deliver to berlin (nd-87g)
-- germans:Give invention for map making
400 Research -> Navigation
420 Food Caravan
460 Food Caravan
-- Navigation->Physics
500 Food Caravan
520 Isaac Newton's College
-- Physics->Atomic Theory
540 Engineer
560 Atom Theory->Steam Engine
580 Engineers
-- Begin terrain improvments around Berlin
600 Steam Engine->Railroad
620 Engineer
640 Railroad -> Industrialization
660 Stock exchange
680 Industrialization->Magnetism
700 Food Caravan
720 WLTPD
740 Food Caravan
-- size 21
760 Metallurgy->Electricity
-- RR to Berlin complete - Routes +26
-- Roman Diplomat Expelled
800 Factory
-- Electricity->Conscription
-- 2 turn camels possible with no RB
840 Meet Indian Horsemen, demands gunpowder. Give it. Peace. Give Navigation, Ally? 50g, War on Germans? No
-- Romans steal Mathematics. War? No
-- Food Caravan
-- Conscription ->Refrigeration
880 Refrigeration->The Corporation
900 Food Caravan
940 Supermarket
-- Corporation->Refining
980 Freight Food
-- Refining->Steel
1000 WLTPD
1020 Freight Food
-- Steel->Combustion
1060 Freight Food
-- Combustion->Automobile
1100 Automobile->Electronics
1120 Superhighways (routes +40)
1140 Electronics->Communism
1160 Hydro Plant
-- WLTPD Cancelled
1180 Communism->Mass Production
1200 Freight Food
-- Fort completed on isthmus south of Berlin to control access
-- Germans: Exchange Communism for Chivalry, Give theory of gravity
1220 Mass Production->Nuclear Fission
1240 Mass Transit(no Triangles)
1260 Nuclear Fission->Leadership
1280 Freight Food
1300 Leadership->Tactics
-- Kill barb leader 150g
1320 Freight Food
1340 Tactics->Machine Tools
1360 Freight Food
1380 Darwin
-- Machine Tools ->Nuclear Power ->Miniaturization
-- Transform non-gold mountain to hill
1400 Miniaturization->Computers
1420 Freight Food
-- WLTPD
1440 Computers->Mobile Warfare
-- Size 28 Max
1460 Research Lab
1480 Mobile Warfare->Robotics
1500 Armor built, deployed to Fort Berlin
1510 Robotics-> The Laser
1520 Offshore platform (production >50)
1530 Dye van
-- Laser ->Flight
-- dye van to berlin (d-348g)
-- Damn, even with dye payment, can't make 1 turn tech.
1540 Freight Food
1550 Freight Food
-- Flight->Radio
-- Flight cancels colossus
1560 Freight Food
-- begin reforestation of river valley
1570 Freight Food
-- Radio->Advanced Flight
1580 Freight Food
-- Forest added to river - start hunger
1590 Freight Food
-- Advanced Flight->Espionage
1600 Freight Food
1610 Freight Food
-- Espionage->Rocketry
1620 Freight Food
1630 Freight Food
-- Rocketry->Space Flight
1640 Freight Dye (berlin demand - should give > 200g, plus extra beakers)
-- Dye to Berlin (d-182g, Damn!)
1650 Manufacturing plant
-- Space Flight ->Plastics
-- 78 shields availiable, flash one more forest into river valley now over 80s
-- hunger a potential problem - will disband one engineer
-- only 14 vans available, save 9 to start components and modules. Will have to make some more cash along the way
-- Put in 3 vans, RB to SofL (400s) add 2 more vans and 1 engineer, production will complete it.
-- Apollo Program
1670 Structural 1
-- Plastics->Guerrilla Warfare
1680 Germans talk…give 100g
-- S2
1690 S3
-- Guerrilla Warfare -> Superconductor
1700 S4
1710 S5
-- Superconductor->Fusion Power
1720 S6
1730 S7
-- Fusion Power -> Labor Union
-- With Fusion in hand, tax 10/0/0 for a few turns to secure funding for spaceship
1740 S8
1750 S9
1752 Major Fanatic uprising near Timotitlan!
-- S10
1754 S11
1756 S12
1758 Romans talk, demand 450g. No. War
-- S13
-- Labor Union->Stealth
1760 S14
-- Armor kills Barb fanatic
-- Armor comes closer to home for a turn or 2 to fight barbs
1762 S15
-- Stealth->Amphibious Warfare
-- Armor kills Barb fanatic, but badly wounded
1764 Stealth Fighter
-- SF Kill Barb Artillery, 2 fanatics Vet
1766 Stealth Fighter
-- SF kills 4 barb artilleries - vet
-- Put van into wonder, RB to structural, let production finish Component
1768 C1 -F1
1770 C2-P1
-- Kill Barb artillery, 2 fanatics
1772 C3-F2
1774 C4-P2
1776 Kill Barb fanatic, artillery
-- Barb attacks armor (vet)
-- C5-F3
-- Barb leader "captured" by stealthfighter 150g
1778 Roman Dips show up near fort berlin
-- C6-P3
-- Kill 2 roman dips
-- Put 1 van in, RB remainder of Module
1780 M1-Solar
-- Toast Roman Crusader
1782 M2-LifeSupport
-- Last freight used
-- Roman musket killed at Ravenna
1784 M3-Habitation
-- Kill roman Diplomat, Ravenna Musket
-- LAUNCH 15-3-3-1-1-1
1785 Airport
-- Amphibious Warfare ->Combined arms (darn, recycling not offered)
-- Nail roman cannon
1786 Running low on food
-- Vet Stealth fighter
1787 Barracks
-- Kill roman Diplomat, Ravenna Musket
1788 Mech infantry
1789 Famine - engineers lost
-- new Engineer built to replace
1790 Engineeer lost, replaced
-- Ravenna musket killed, city razed
1791 Indians and romans sign alliance against Aztecs
-- City Walls
1792 Mech infantry
-- Roman cannon shot
1793 Stealth Fighter
-- Kill roman settler
1794 Coastal Fortress
-- Bab diplomat shot
1795 Romans and English sign alliance
-- Spy
-- English settler, cannon stack killed
1796 Spy
-- Roman dip killed
-- English transport (empty) sunk
1797 Indians - peace treaty forced by senate
-- Sam battery
-- Bab freight killed
1798 Stealth fighter
-- Fun time…
-- ...Kill english Cannon, 2 crusaders where ravenna used to be 2 roman dips, Bab camel-plane goes down
-- ...pompeii, pisae emptied (musket, 2 rifles) and english explorer killed along the way.-plane goes down
-- ...Kill english transport with 1 other unit on board, empty nottingham. Plane goes down

1799 Land spaceship. End Game.

[Elephant]

Nice games, everyone! I'm tempted to make a comparison chart like Solo made for the EL games. Come to think of it, both of these OCC starts could have made decent EL games too. I've been looking for a small-island start for another OCC game in November; anyone else want to jump in and post an OCC/EL Comparison Game start? Required: Classic/2.42, Deity, Raging Hordes, 7 civs, Restarts On, Normal/Medium Map, no starting techs.

BTW, I launched a 15-3-3-1-1-1 in 1792, landing 1807. I kept my alliance with Germans throughout the game, had one with Romans too most of the game, and had both Oil and Gems unblocked at the end.

[Zenon]

OCC 2 Aztecs 1819 AC Landing

I finished my game finally. This one was more difficult to play. The Barbarians took Berlin somewhere around 1350 BC and I could not count on good bonus trade routes. Only in the end game I managed to build a road railroad connection to Leipzig but I could only replace one of my former trade routes to the English. A trade route to barbarian Berlin would have been easier, but in the beginning it was not possible and later the city was to weak to replace one of my older trade routes. Even later I lost riflemen when building the road along Berlin. The Barbarians didn´t like my activity. The other major problem: In this game all AI except the Americans were weak and I could never establish more than one alliance and never received a gift. Under the circumstances the Landing date was still much better than I expected in between. Very different from my last game but almost the same landing date.

The log:

BC
4000 hut horse, Tenochtitlan
3800 Alphabet
3450 Code of Laws, Germans peace
3000 Writing, Romans trade for Bronce Working, peace
2650 Tenochtitlan library
2550 Literacy
2300 hut Currency
2200 Germans demand tribute, war
2050 Republic
1900 hut Barbarians
1800 Germans peace, no alliance
1600 Babylonians start Colossus
1350 Berlin is now barbarian
1250 temple, start celebration
1200 Mystizism, Romans alliance
1050 size 7
950 Trade
900 hut 50g
800 Philosophy, Medicine
700 MPE, Romans Cartography, Germans Mathematics maps
650 barbarian leader 150g,
575 English peace maps, Indians war, Americans next to english, no contact, I want to spend my gold first
450 Americans peace maps, no alliance,
425 hides to London (d) 200g
400 Astronomy
300 silk to washington 207g
275 University
175 Colossus, Barb leader 150g
150 trade for Construction
75 Theory of Gravity
50 dye to London (d) 346g
25 trade for Horse Riding
AD
20 hides to London (d) 381g
80 The Wheel
120 hides to London (d) 414g
140 ST
160 Engineering, barb uprising: 4 Horses 3 Chariots
220 wine to London (d) 432g
240 Sanitation, size 12, trade for seafaring, Bridge Building
260 sewerage, Romans end Alliance, English Alliance
320 gold to London 348g
360 Invention
420 size 21
460 Democracy
540 Navigation
580 wool to Washington 348g
600 Copernicus physics, size 24
640 Steam Engine
660 trade for Iron Working
680 Railroad
720 Magnetism
760 Industrialization
800 Chemistry
820 treasury down to 10g, Indians end war, peace maps (about time), English trade for Gun Powder, give Industrialization, no gift, Germans give Gun Powder (still hoping they will free Berlin one day), still strong, no further Alliances
840 Factory
860 Atomic Theory
920 Explosives
980 Metallurgy, Berlin now produces Barb Musketeers,
1000 INC
1020 Corporation, Engineer
1060 Conscription
1100 Electricity
1120 Engineer, Americans develop Communism
1140 Refrigeration
1160 Engineer, oil to Leipzig 94g, finally a trade route with the Germans (London replaced)
1180 Steel
1220 Electronics
1240 Supermarket
1260 Refinery
1300 Combustion
1340 Automobile, trade for Feudalism
1380 Mass Production, Barb Riflemen bribed
1420 Chivalry
1460 Leadership
1480 back to size 24
1500 Nuclear Fission
1520 Tactics, trade for Monarchy
1540 Machine Tools, Bank
1560 Mobile Warfare
1580 Miniturization
1590 Stock Exchange
1600 Computers, trade road to Leipzig comleted, the most difficult I ever built
1610 Research Lab
1620 Robotics, gold to Leipzig 205g (tried to replace a Washington trade route, but it didn´t work)
1630 Mass Transit, Production at 52, start building Freights (very late )
1640 Flight
1660 Nuclear Power
1680 Radio
1700 Advanced Flight
1710 Manufacturing Plant, Railroad to Leipzig completed, power rating to mighty, still no alliance, Americans key civ
1720 Advanced Flight, Offshore Platform, production at 85
1740 Rocketry
1752 Space Flight
1754 Apollo Program
1756 S1
1758 – 1786 S2 – S 15, one freight
1760 Plastics
1768 Superconductor, trade for Polytheism
1770 dye to Leipzig (d) 218g
1776 Fusion Power
1788 – 1792 M1 - 3
1802 C1 - C6 finished 188g left
1804 Launch 15 – 6 – 3
1809 Barbarian Berlin bribed – my little revenge
1810 Germans declare war
1811 Leipzig captured
1812 Hamburg captured, Germans destroyed
1817 pay tribute to Americans

1819 AC Landing

Zenon

[solo]

Interesting games, and each one so much different, but still with most player landings clustered around 1800.

Elephant,

I have found a small island start with an SSC site having four trade specials, if you want to use it for another OCC game. It might also be suitable for another EL game, if players vote to give that kind of game another go.

[Scouse Gits]

1809 Barbarian Berlin bribed – my little revenge
1810 Germans declare war
1811 Leipzig captured
1812 Hamburg captured, Germans destroyed
1817 pay tribute to Americans

1819 AC Landing

Eh!?

Is this yet another rule change that I slept through?

Stu

[Straybow]

Well, after launching we can kick buttocks… no?

1768 Superconductor, trade for Polytheism

Why trading (which adds one to your tech total) instead of giving it away to your key civ? Unless you had no other choice but Polytheism and trading got it out of the way?

[Elephant]

Usually after Sup (occasionally after Pla) there has to be an off-path tech in order to get to FP. I like to trade for Cmn earlier (after someone ELSE kills off my Marco Polo) when I am forced off-path, so I can do Esp and be ready with some Spies when the time comes. If I have cranked down the research I will trade for a dumb tech instead. I traded for Pottery recently between Sup and FP, wondering if it would change the SSC commodities: it was so late in the game there was no discernable effect.

Solo - My "vote" is post your game in a new thread, call it OCC/EL Challenge, and we can let players decide which they want to try, then we'll compare results. Sounds fun.

[Elephant]

OCC 2003 #2

PreGame Analysis:
Hut(74,58)=seed 16
nearby Huts (80,58-close!), (88,54), (75,41), rest water
draw on MapEdit: seed=48, hidden is Whale, 2nd 4x (79,57)
continent #13
no free techs
Raging Hordes
restarts on
TOP5: #1/White=Rome, #3/Blue=German

Start Plan: pop hut & 2nd east, check other 4x plus SE, settle
Build Plan: Warrior-Library-Diplomat-Colossus
Tech Plan: Alp/Wri/Bro/CoL/Lit/REP/Cur/TRA/Map/Mas/Cst/Cer/?

4000BC- 1st Settler: Hut(74,58): Horse(NONE); Horse east
...2nd Settler southeast
...(79,57) 4x is grass! and (77,63) 3x too
3950BC- Hut(80,58): 50g (rats)
...TOP5: #2/Green=Babylon
DECISION:
(75,59) is Gold-Whale-(Buff)-(Silk),11grass,4ocean,6river,19Shields
(79,57) is Gold-(Buff)-Buff-Fish,7(+2?)grass,3ocean,20-22Shields
(77,63) is Gold-Whale-(Silk),12-14grass,2n-ocean,10river,19Shields
(+4 rivers,+1-3grass offset by Buffalo+ocean access?)
...found TENOCH at (75,59)+2F,4T,3Sh: start Warrior
start Alphabet
3800BC- Hut(88,54): Archer(TEN)- nobody nearby
3750BC- ALPHABET; start Writing
3400BC- TENOCH size 2, switch Pheasant to Gold: 4t@6b
3350BC- WRITING; start Bronze
3150BC- RB Library
3100BC- BRONZE; start CodeLaws
2850BC- meet Icy German: 6Sp,dem Wri for peace,Neut,exch Bro for Mas?no,gift Bro to Recep,ally?nothing2offer,end (Aztecs are Mighty=Orange)
2800BC- 1st Diplomat; CODE LAWS; start Lit
2500BC- Dip embassy Germans: Desp,62g,1city,5techs(got Cer,Mas),res CoL,WAR ROME! re-contact Enth Germ: 5Sp,gift CoL (pres res) to Worsh,ally?YES!!!
2450BC- LITERACY; start Republic!
2250BC- TOP5: Washington(2) is Barb!
2100BC- Barb uprising east of TENOCH: 2xHorse,Ldr disappeared
2050BC- REPUBLIC (missed by 2b!); start Currency
2000BC- Worsh German: 5Sp,exch Lit for CER-BUR,gift Rep,end
1950BC- Temple
1900BC- REVOLT: REPUBLIC T20S80
1800BC- German govmt Republic!
1600BC- Barbs land SW: 2xArcher+Ldr; CURRENCY; start Myst
1500BC- Germans get Maps from Romans, peace treaty
1350BC- Horse "captures" BarbLdr: 150g! RB Mktplace
1200BC- MYSTICISM; start Philosophy!
1150BC- Germans develop Iron! kill BarbLdr!
1100BC- TENOCH size 3
975BC- contact Roman Leipzig Cordial: 6Sp,dem Rep for peace,Enthus, gift CodeLaws to Worsh,ally?no use,end; Dip makes embassy Romans: Desp,172g,4cities,11techs,res Phil!
925BC- PHILOSOPHY; freebie TRADE; start Maps
900BC- TENOCH supplies Hides/Silk/Dye! contact Worsh Germans: 5Sp,exch Philos for MAPMAKING, Tra for MASONRY,sh maps, gift? 150g! contact Enth Romans: 6Sp,gift Philos to Worsh,sh maps,ally? dem Tra,YES!,gift?sympathy,goodbye
1st Dye caravan!
WLTCD in TENOCH!
start Construction
850BC- TENOCH size 4
825BC- TENOCH size 5
2nd Hides caravan
800BC- TENOCH size 6
775BC- TENOCH size 7, cancel WL
3rd Silk caravan
750BC- caravan meets Worsh Germ settler: 3Sp,exch?no,sh maps,gift?100g
725BC- 4th: Hides
700BC- Dye to Berlin(5/Dye/Cop/Wool): 160g/b,+5 (frees GOLD!)
(Berlin now Wool/GOLD/Silver);CONSTRUCTION; start Bank (vs Math-Astron)
675BC- 5th: Gold!
650BC- delay Hides delivery to preserve Gold demand
625BC- 6th: 2nd Hides
575BC- 7th: 3rd Hides
550BC- ARGH! Gold arrives, Berlin switches to (Dye)Cop/Wool! Hides to Berlin(6(Dye)Cop/Wool): 80g/b,+5
Berlin again Wool/GOLD/Silv! BANKING; start Medicine!
525BC- Gold to Berlin(6/Wool/Gold/Silv): 209g/b,+5(3rd!)
8th: 1st Food
500BC- MEDICINE; start Math
475BC- contact Worsh German: 3Sp,gift Cst,gift?50g,goodbye; Enth Roman: 6Sp,gift Cst to Worsh,gift?patience thin,goodbye (misers)
Germans report war with Romans!
425BC- Romans lose Neapolis to Barbs!
375BC- Silk caravan stumbles into Neapolis! between turns: Roman Legion wipes out Neapolis!
350BC- Germans get Bank from Romans for Iron, PEACE!
MATHEMATICS; start Univ
325BC- Romans start Marco Polo (uhoh)
300BC- Enth Rom: 6Sp,gift Med to Worsh,gift?75g,goodbye; Enth Ger: 2Sp,gift Myst to Worsh,gift?patience thin,goodbye; Indians start Colossus!!!
275BC- Silk to Rome(5/Dye/Cop/Silk): 240g/b,nochg!
UNIVERSITY; start Astron
250BC- start Shakes, 6 Food caravans (frees Silk!); chg T0S70L30 for WL
200BC- TENOCH size 8; RB Aquaduct; free Silk chgd to Wine!
175BC- TENOCH size 9; Roman govmt othro (finally!)
150BC- TENOCH size 10, Wine caravan
125BC- TENOCH size 11; Enth Rom: 6Sp,gift Univ to Worsh,gift?50g,goodbye; Enth Ger: 2Sp,gift Univ to Worsh,gift?patience thin,goodbye
100BC- TENOCH size 12, chg T20S80; Germans get Bridge!!!(hut?)
50BC- ASTRONOMY; start Chem (20th!)
25BC- Enth Ger: 2Sp,exch Ast(gulp) for BRIDGE,Worsh,gift?no,goodbye
1AD- (hey- what happened to Cumae's demand for Wine?)
20AD- Wine to Leipzig(3/Dye/Silv/Silk): 106g/b,nochg
60AD- Indians near Colossus!
80AD- KeyRd to Berlin finished: +7->+10! chg to Colossus, 4 Food caravans (Wool freed); CHEMISTRY; start Theory Gravity
120AD- Romans near MarcoPolo!
140AD- start MarcoPolo,1Food & 2 Hide caravans, disband Dip +140g
160AD-
==============
Marco Polo Analysis:
Enth Rom: Rep,300g,7cities,21techs,Res Econ,Peace Germ,War Ind
Neut Bab: Desp,323g,5cities,10techs,Res Cst,War Ind
Enth Ger: Rep,408g,1city,23techs,Res Sea,Peace Rom
Icy Amer: Desp,288g,3cities,11techs,Res Cur,War Engl(got Sea,Wheel)
Icy Engl: Desp,261g,4cities,10techs,Res Wri,War Amer(got Sea,Wheel)
Icy Indi: Mon,313g,4cities,12techs,Res NON,War Rom,Bab(got Iron)
Aztecs want Wheel and maps, give away Republic
==========================
...Icy Amer: 0Sp,dem Lit for peace,gift Rep,Tra,Cst to Worsh,
exch? too busy,sh maps,nomore
(Amer got 2 Settlers, Trireme out; Barb Wash size 4!)
...Neut Bab: 3Sp,dem Lit for peace,gift Rep,Tra,Cst to Worsh,
sh maps?no use; gift Phil,Wri,Map,sh maps,end
(Babs got 3 settlers,Indians landed NE coast)
...Icy Ind: 5Sp,war Bab?no,dem Cst for peace,gift Rep,Tra,Mys,
Phil to Worsh,sh maps,end
(Indians got 3 ships, no visible Settlers, lotsa trees)
...Icy Engl: 1Sp,war Amer?no,dem 50g?no,WAR (sigh)
(looks like English are closest...)
===================================
180AD- Enraged Engl: 0Sp,war Amer?no,dem Cst for CF,gift Rep,Wri to
Worsh,exch Tra for WHEEL,sh maps,end
200AD- THEORY GRAVITY; start Eng
280AD- Enth Germ: 1Sp,gift Wheel to Worsh,gift?patience thin,goodbye; Enth Rom: 6Sp,dem Ast to Worsh,gift?75g,goodbye
300AD- Recep Engl: 1Sp,dem Philos,gift Bridge,Bank to Enth,peace,end; Romans start Copernicus!
320AD- ENGINEERING; start San!
400AD- start Copernicus,6 Food caravans
420AD- Enth Ind: 4Sp,exch Univ for IRON,gift lots,sh maps,nomore; Enth Amer: 0Sp,exch Eng for SEAFAR,sh maps,nomore; SANITATION; start Invent
460AD- RB Sewers
480AD- Enth Rom: 6Sp,gift Eng to Worsh,gift?200g!,goodbye; chg T0S80L20 for WL
520AD- TENOCH size 14 (FBF)
540AD- TENOCH size 15; bribe Rom caravan 110g: Hides; produce Silver caravan! INVENTION; start Nav
560AD- TENOCH size 16
580AD- TENOCH size 17; RB Bank; GreatLibrary in Babylon
600AD- TENOCH size 18
620AD- TENOCH size 19; RB Harbor; Germ dev Nav! govmt othro (uhoh)
640AD- TENOCH size 20; Enth Germ: 0Sp,exch Invent for NAVIGATION,gift?no symp,goodbye; German govmt Monarchy (RATS)
start Physics
660AD- TENOCH size 21, cancel WL; RB Univ
680AD- PHYSICS; start Democracy!
720AD- 1st Caravel takes Dip&2xCamels
740AD- DEMOCRACY; start Mag
760AD- REVOLT (T20S60L20)
DEMOCRACY: T0S80L20
780AD- German govmt othro; 1st Settler in TENOCH; WLTPD!
800AD- German govmt Republic! (+16->+18!)
820AD- TENOCH size 21 again; bribe Roman camel 147g: Gems! Enth Ind: 4Sp,exch Invent(pres res) for ECONOMICS,sh maps,nomore; Wool caravan; MAGNETISM; start SteamEng
840AD- TENOCH size 22,+0F chg T10S90; Barb Frigate approaches!
860AD- 3xBarb Legions land (also near Berlin)
880AD- bribe 1st BarbLegion 82g, kills 2nd: deep red; bribe 3rd Legion 82g,Frigate 102g, load Hides; STEAM ENG; start RR
900AD- Hides to Ashur(8/Cop/Dye/Silk): 360g/b,nochg
920AD- RAILROAD; start Indust
940AD- Silver to Babylon(8/Cop/Silv/Silk): 567g/b,nochg
INDUSTRIALIZATION; start AtomTh
960AD- start RRing to Berlin, gift RR to all
980AD- Hides to Nottingham(6/Cop/Dye/Hide): 339g/b,nochg
ATOMIC THEORY; start Corp
1000AD- start Newtons, 8 Food caravans (Oil,Cloth freed!)
1020AD- Enth Bab: 5R,exch Dem for GUNPOWDER,nomore
CORPORATION; start Metal
1040AD- Cloth freight
1060AD- METALLURGY; start Explos
1080AD- Barb Frigate approaches TENOCH; Babs dev Explos; Oil freight
1100AD- disband Caravel; 3xBarbLegions land from BarbFrigate
Germ govmt othro (again?)
EXPLOSIVES; start Elec
1120AD- bribe BarbLegion 82g (other doubled); kill other 2: yellow; gift Explos to all; German govmt Monarchy (again?); 1st Engineer in TENOCH
1140AD- disband new Legion for Transport
ELECTRICITY; start Refine
1160AD- 1st Transport takes Wool,Gems,Oil
1180AD- REFINING; start Steel
1200AD- Cloth freight to Hispalis(4/Dye/Wine/Cloth): 240g/b,nochg
1st POLLUTION
1220AD- STEEL; start Combust
1260AD- bribe Barb Crusader 82g; Enth Rom: 6R,exch?no,sh maps,gift?200g!,goodbye; German govmt othro again!
COMBUSTION; start Auto!
1280AD- RR path finished: +24ea!!! Wool caravan to Ellipi(6/Cop/Dye/Wool): 382g/b,nochg (Ellipi now Coal/Wool/Silk); Gems caravan to Ur(8/Dye/Cop/Coal): 215g/b,nochg (Ur now Coal/Cop/Wool); Oil freight to Ur(8/Coal/Cop/Wool): 322g/b,nochg
Hmmm: German Eng on my RR,extension appeared suddenly...
1300AD- ah: Frankfurt just off bend of my RR...
AUTOMOBILE!!! start Refrig
1320AD- RB Superhighways; Enth Germans: 0R,gift Auto!,sh maps,goodbye
1340AD- Germans near Darwins! REFRIGERATION; start Conscr
1360AD- bribe Rom caravan 147g Wool; Enth Germ: 0R,gift all but Combust,gift?no,goodbye; WonderBread frees Oil&Gems!
Darwins in Berlin! get Conscr & Chivalry! chg to WomSuf
Gems freight; CONSCRIPTION; start MassProd
1380AD- disband Settlers for Eng, chg T0S80L20 for WL, 2nd Eng in TENOCH, WLTPD
1400AD- capture BarbLdr west of German-land: 150g; Oil freight
MASS PRODUCTION; start E2
1420AD- TENOCH size 21 again, cancel WL; Worsh Germ: 0R,exch MassProd(pres res) for CHIVALRY,goodbye
Germ chg to SunTzu, GOVMT OTHRO!
ELECTRONICS; start Ldrship
1440AD- bribe Rom transport 157g (supp), bribe Barb Crusader 82g NONE; RB MassTransit
SunTzu in Berlin; Germ chg to WomSuf; govmt Democracy!!!
LEADERSHIP; start Tactics
1460AD- bribe Eng transport 185g:NONE!
TACTICS; start MTools
1480AD- bribe Eng transport 272g:NONE; RB Factory
1500AD- disband supported Transport, RB Hydro
MACHINE TOOLS; start MobWar
1510AD- disband 2nd supported Transport, RB SuperMkt; bribe Amer Transport 175g, bribe Amer Destroyer 291g, bribe Barb Ldr/Dip 61g
MOBILE WAR; start Min
1520AD- ...bribe Rom Eng 736g NONE!
1530AD- Oil freight to Ur(8/Dye/Cop/Silk): 660g/b,nochg; chg T80S0L20 1Sci for WL
MINIATURIZATION; start Computers!
1540AD- bribe 2nd Rom Eng 792g; Wool caravan to Ur(8/Coal/Cop/Wool): 880g/b,nochg; Gems freight to Ur(same): 660g/b,nochg
COMPUTERS; start Rob
1550AD- TENOCH size 22, RB ResLab
1560AD- TENOCH size 23; bribe 3rd Rom Eng 492g; RB OffPlatform
Babs dev Combust (uhoh)
ROBOTICS; start NucFission
1570AD- ...TENOCH size 24,+1F, chg T20S80 (time to start Foresting)
WonderBread frees Oil&Gems! Gems freight
NUC FISSION; start NucPower
1580AD- GERMANS DEV COMMUNISM (rats); Oil freight
NUC POWER; start Laser
1590AD- start Mining Riv-Grass/Plains for Forests; RB ManufPlant
LASER; start Flight!
1600AD- FLIGHT (cancels Colossus); start Pottery (chg commodities?)
(Trade dropped from 227 to 176)
1610AD- Dip embassy English; Oil to Ur(8/Coal/Cop/Wool): 336g/b,nochg; Enth Bab: 5R,exch MobWar for POTTERY,sh maps,end; Dip embassy Babs
start Radio
1620AD- Oil freight!
RADIO; start AdvFli
1630AD- Gems to Ur(8/Coal/Cop/Wool): 336g/b,nochg
Gems freight
ADVANCED FLIGHT; start Rocketry
1650AD- Worsh Ger: 1R,exch(Radio-no)AdvFli for COMMUNISM,sh maps,end
ROCKETRY; start SpaFli!!!
1660AD- Oil to Ur(same): 336g/b,nochg; Gems to Ur(same): 336g/b,nochg
SPACE FLIGHT; start Plastics
1680AD- PLASTICS; start Super
1690AD- RB StockExch; chg T70S10L20 8t&WL
1700AD- start Apollo, 2 trucks, RB 2000g (Oil&Gems freed!)
1710AD- TENOCH size 25; Gems freight
1720AD- TENOCH size 26; bribe Rom Dip 139g; Oil freight!
1730AD- TENOCH size 27,+0F; disband 2 supported Eng
1C:Prop
1740AD- TENOCH size 28,-1F,chg T90S10L0 all Taxmen; Rom em: dem SpaFli(NO),end alliance,Settler in Germany returned
2C:Fuel
1750AD- bribe Rom Dip 141g (hey: Transport at Bab-land returned too!)
3C:Prop
1752AD- 4C:Fuel
SUPERCONDUCTOR; start Esp
1754: 5C: Prop
1756: 6C: Fuel
1758: 1S
1760: 2S
1762: 3S
1764: 4S
1766: 5S
1768: 6S
ESPIONAGE; start Fusion
1770: 7S
1772: 8S
1774: 9S
1776: 10S
1778: 11S
1780: 12S
1782: 13S
1784: 14S
1786: 15S
1788: 1M
1790: 2M
FUSION; start Stealth
1792: 3M,LAUNCH: arrival 1807
avoided contact, built Spies,Armor,Fighter
1807 Landing AC

[Scouse Gits]

1.2. RULES
You are allowed to settle one city. You are not allowed to settle more cities or to get cities through conquest or bribery. It is of course not allowed to access the cheat menu. It is also not allowed to reload a game to change anything that did not go as you wanted it to go. There is only one occasion where reloading is allowed which is explained in section 1.2.2 (advanced tribes).

where does it say - upto launch?

[Zenon]

Originally posted by Straybow
Well, after launching we can kick buttocks… no?

Quote:

1768 Superconductor, trade for Polytheism

Why trading (which adds one to your tech total) instead of giving it away to your key civ? Unless you had no other choice but Polytheism and trading got it out of the way?

I thought I could after launch. Thanks for the confirmation, Straybow! But I think I would have violated rules just to kick Barbarian Berlin. 3000 years of barbarism just had to come to an end in this once beautiful city.

About the tech exchange: Elephant allready gave the answer.

Zenon

[Zenon]

It´s good to see you back playing civ 2, Solo! And I think it´s time to congratulate you to the earliest landing. TimTheEnchanter and Elephant had very good games, too.

Originally posted by solo
Interesting games, and each one so much different, but still with most player landings clustered around 1800.

Exactly! One more reason for Elephant to complete one of these nice charts.

It might also be suitable for another EL game, if players vote to give that kind of game another go.

please go ahead

Zenon

P.S: I think I could provide some interesting starts, too. BTW, is there any reason why not to take a start on a created map (other than the unwanted knowledge of the creator)?

[solo]

It's fun to be back among the Civ 2 faithful. I found something lacking in RoN and the RTS genre. I will post a new thread shortly for another EL game, but hope that Zenon would follow that with one of his own starts. As for using edited maps, it was done more often than not in Paul's OCC games, so I can't see any objection to using one.

[Elephant]

I hate to buck the trend of these "blood-thirsty" OCC gamers, but I find myself agreeing with SG (MAJOR suprise!) that the time between launch and landing is not meant to be a release from the One City restriction. Certainly a lot of AI "retribution" can be permitted (I personally like to see how well I can preserve the AI's attitudes while adequately protecting my city), but the addition of extra cities changes the danger level of that in-between time. I have had at least two memorable deaths to overwhelming AI attack (well, in all honesty my defenses were a little weak) during that period. I think a valid OCC finish is the landing, not the launch. Otherwise we could be sending 15-1-1-1-1-1 ships off earlier and ignoring 30 in-between years...

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Elephant
I hate to buck the trend of these "blood-thirsty" OCC gamers, but I find myself agreeing with SG ... I think a valid OCC finish is the landing, not the launch. Otherwise we could be sending 15-1-1-1-1-1 ships off earlier and ignoring 30 in-between years...

I think Elephant "sticks the landing" with this comment.

Monk

[Scouse Gits]

Ah elephant - to paraphrase Clint Eastwood, "Just because we agree on something doesn't mean I want to stick my tongue down your throat."

Even my unquenchable thirst for infidel blood knows that OCC is not the place to enjoy it

Stu

[Zenon]

Well, if even the RAR Philosophy is begging for peace in this case I better give in!

No conquest after launch, then (unless, of cause, these bloody Barbarians take my trading partner again to spoil my game )

Zenon

[duke o' york]

No conquest after lunch!
I agree totally with this idea. Also no taking of cities whatsoever after lunch. Bribery's out too. It'd be easy to protect your city by buying another one close by and weathering the AI storm there, leaving your capital to see out the rest of the game peacefully. Once the launch has been made then you should be hurriedly buying up defenders to ensure you're still around to make that triumphant TV broadcast to your expectant citizens. :b

Now OCC conquest is another matter entirely.....

[Elephant]

Originally posted by duke o' york

No conquest after lunch!

Bad Pun Alert!

Now OCC conquest is another matter entirely.....

I've only seen one or two decent OCC conquest games; for one thing, Restarts would have to be Off. I've done some city reduction myself in OCC, but it is tedious killing the only defender and waiting till the flag goes up to kill it again.

[Elephant]

Up late trying to get the youngest to stay in bed...



EDIT: Grigor's stats updated (with some interpolation...)

[Old n Slow]

Hmmm,

I have some room to improve -- looks like I'm weak in a number of areas -- foremost the earliest game.