Thoughts on the next AU scenario

Rhothaerill · September 26, 2003, 17:29

Theseus brought up the point in another thread about starting the next standard Apolyton University course. AUSG101 is by design a slow moving scenario with it's week long turn blocks. So to that end, starting a new AU course sounds like a good idea to me.

This thread is for everyone to post their ideas about what they would like to see from the next AU course (i.e. type of scenario, nation choices, etc.). So please tell us what you want.

PeaSoup · September 26, 2003, 17:42

how about one with very limited resources for all civs, and especially the human player?

for my last few games, the map generator always generated resourceful maps, thus taking away the strategy involved with resources..

maybe clump them together like some lux are so that one civ on each continent will control most of a single resource

there'll probably be some balance problems, and definitely some KAIs that a resource poor human can't handle..

I donno, your thoughts?

Rhothaerill · September 26, 2003, 17:49

That's actually similar to the game Theseus is currently playing...Ottomans with no horsies around.

Too bad he gave us a map or we could use that game.

It's a possibility, but there is one thing too. While designing this new scenario I'll try a little harder to strike a balance between "easy" and "hard". Some of the last few AU scenarios have been difficult to beat on higher levels (fun though...I AM going to beat AU209!

), while the start I created for AUSG101 might have been a little too generous. I want to be able to challenge everyone, while not making something so difficult that people don't want to play it. I will probably set the game up to be able to be played on all regent and above difficulty levels.

BTW, this game will possibly be the last AU course before Conquests arrives so let's make it a good one.

TheArsenal · September 26, 2003, 17:50

I think it would be interesting to set up a situation where the goal is - in addition to winning, of course - that one must ensure that every civ that starts the game, ends the game.

GodKing · September 26, 2003, 20:22

Some general ideas - haven't tried out hardly any of them, so if they are not feasable, shoot some other messenger please.......

- WAIT 2 MONTHS FOR CONQUEST (someone had to say it).
- All UU are available to all civs
- All non used UU are available to all civs (this is what the GoW PBEM#2 is about, Ghengis Farb set it up and has played several games with this)
- All Units are hidden nationality and the same colour (did I just attack the greeks or the spanish?)
- limited resources, only 1/2 the normal amount of resources are in (this will result in a large number of AI's killing off eachother, particularly those w/o iron and horses)
- no iron (or coal, but iron would be harder)
- super number of resources, like say 10 times as many as usual, so it will be very hard to take a civ out by denying resources (and will also make several super cities)
- remove all wonders
- remove the GA
- NO RCP (which will be gone soon anyways - thank you)
- naval (but will need a naval mod probably)
- OCC (I know I know....)
- Super barbarians (gurillas and tanks, or use the dino animations....)
- modern start
- industrial start
- no UU
- lethal bombardment (air and or artilery or a combo)
- Resources located in clusters (one civ has 6 iron, but no horses, Saltpeter or coal.... can also apply to lux)
- Small map with lots of civs
- big map with few civs
- earth map
- mediterian map
- some other pre mad map
- a common mod, DyP, TETs, etc.
- no civ traits (expan, scientific, indust, etc)
- all civ traits

Hope this helps (instead of just giving you too much to think about)

Hot_Enamel · September 26, 2003, 20:41

Big Brother scenario is interesting.

The first civ you meet, is your big brother.
Objective of the game, is to let your big brother win.
The human player must come second.

Trick is to keep your big brother from attacking you...Generous diplomacy is required.
Play strong enough to limit civs from becoming too strong.
Yet play conservative enough so that you dont win the game, and small enough that Big Brother does not attack.

Be put in the middle of the map with civs all around.
Everyone will have a different big brother depending on where they move first.

Konquest02 · September 26, 2003, 21:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
Big Brother scenario is interesting.

The first civ you meet, is your big brother.
Objective of the game, is to let your big brother win.
The human player must come second.

Trick is to keep your big brother from attacking you...Generous diplomacy is required.
Play strong enough to limit civs from becoming too strong.
Yet play conservative enough so that you dont win the game, and small enough that Big Brother does not attack.

Be put in the middle of the map with civs all around.
Everyone will have a different big brother depending on where they move first.

That is really nice and original.. I'll be willing to try that anytime!

--Kon--

Beta · September 26, 2003, 22:22

Meet and Greet

You are the Babs in the middle of an X shaped continent (huge map) where a plethora of neighbors exist. How will you play this game? Can you get used to the Jones' crossing your front yard each turn, and the Smiths' your back yard every second?

Will you even survive long enough to report on your success, or lack there of? Just how well honed are your single-player negotiating skills?

That is Meet and Greet.

Rhothaerill · September 26, 2003, 23:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Beta
Meet and Greet

You are the Babs in the middle of an X shaped continent (huge map) where a plethora of neighbors exist. How will you play this game? Can you get used to the Jones' crossing your front yard each turn, and the Smiths' your back yard every second?

Will you even survive long enough to report on your success, or lack there of? Just how well honed are your single-player negotiating skills?

That is Meet and Greet.

Ah, that's the one you were telling me about a few weeks ago isn't it?

Did you ever beat it?

fanes7 · September 27, 2003, 00:14

More Technologies ,

more Luxury resources (Coffee , perfume ,
pearl (at coast , need dock ) ),

more Palace ( Summer & Winter & Spring & Autumn
the Potala Palace (the famous palace in Sitsang or Tibet ) ,

more unit ( an upgrade-line from warrior to modern armor ) ,

more city building , ( academy , institute , guild ... )

more Great Wonders , (
The Great Canal . It is from Hang-Chow to Beijing , built in about 550AD , length :1300Km , provided many commerce since Mid-age ,
The Statue of Great Buddha , in Si-Chuan province China , Height 72M , the highest buddha statue in the world , Built at 718AD ,
...

PeaSoup · September 27, 2003, 02:17

the big brother idea is interesting, but I donno about an AU course that teaches you on losing to the AI

we could have an AU course based on the supposed changes coming in Conquests.. specifically, the changes to map making/navigation and trading contacts/printing press

and make the human player play a non expansionist civ.. I think aztecs should be disallowed as well

Rhothaerill · September 27, 2003, 02:57

Quote:

Originally posted by PeaSoup
the big brother idea is interesting, but I donno about an AU course that teaches you on losing to the AI

we could have an AU course based on the supposed changes coming in Conquests.. specifically, the changes to map making/navigation and trading contacts/printing press

and make the human player play a non expansionist civ.. I think aztecs should be disallowed as well

I like this idea. I had been thinking of running something similar to that myself as a test, but then forgot about it. Thoughts?

PeaSoup · September 27, 2003, 05:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhothaerill

I like this idea. I had been thinking of running something similar to that myself as a test, but then forgot about it. Thoughts?

I've been thinking about starting a new game with these changes as well, but it may be much more interesting to compare results with other AU participants..

are the changes 100% confirmed? any other details?

FrustratedPoet · September 27, 2003, 06:16

The Big Brother idea is the most original and interesting I think. Sounds very difficult too.

Thrar · September 28, 2003, 08:16

what about
(1) research everything on your own - ie no trading or extorting for techs, or at least no trading, as it may be too hard otherwise.
or
(2) no research on your own, and maybe no trading away any techs in addition.

about the Big Brother thing, I think it would be quite easy by cutting the BB down to a few cities as early as possible, so you can easily control and defend him, then go for a domination victory, and as you get close to reaching that goal, gift him your cities. That way, he will eventually achieve domination victory, through all the cities you gave him.
Of course there could be an additional rule to prevent this, or make domination very hard to reach, but i think this approach might work with spaceship and conquest as well, for instance. Cultural or timeline would be harder, though.

Hot_Enamel · September 28, 2003, 08:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrar
what about
about the Big Brother thing, I think it would be quite easy by cutting the BB down to a few cities as early as possible, so you can easily control and defend him, then go for a domination victory, and as you get close to reaching that goal, gift him your cities.

Rule #1 ... You dont ever attack your Big Brother. (He is family!)

(Not sure what happens if he attacks you ... perhaps defensive war only ??)

Other rules...
You must gift any researched tech to Big Brother.
(Or if thats too hard.. you must sell it to him at whatever price he asks)

And when buying tech from him, you buy it at whatever price he sets.

Dominae · September 28, 2003, 15:29

Thrar stole my idea: forget Big Brother, conquer the world, then gift Big Brother all your cities. There needs to be a rule against this for the scenario to work.

Dominae

Tassadar500 · September 28, 2003, 21:36

Personally, I don't know how good the Big Brother idea will be but if the majority wants it then so be it

Hot_Enamel · September 28, 2003, 22:10

Just so the appropriate people get the credit ...

I was lurking on CFC 6 months ago, and followed the following SG's.

It has the rules for BB and is good read.

CFC Big Brother Link

I obviously for the Big Brother / Little Brother mixed up

Rhothaerill · September 28, 2003, 23:02

Let's give another day or two to gather ideas and then put it to a vote to see what happens.

So far the main ideas are:

Limited resources - from PeaSoup
UN Peacekeepers - from TheArsenal
Big Brother - from Hot Enamel
Meet And Greet - from Beta
Contact from Conquests prelude - from PeaSoup
No extortion/no research - from Thrar
Multiple ideas - from Godking and fanes7

Tassadar500 · September 28, 2003, 23:10

My vote...... UN Peacekeepers

Mountain Sage · September 29, 2003, 06:42

Standard (or large), archipelago, 12 civs, all islands (lots of!) smaller than 5 squares, no continents, half resources, the human civ is NOT a seafaring one (no English, no Scandinavians...).
Win by domination.
The naval game.

Konquest02 · September 29, 2003, 08:19

UN peacekeepers and Big Brother seem like fun games....

Harovan · September 29, 2003, 09:03

I'd say the peacekeepers. I have played peacekeeper in my SP games on occasion and it's great fun. Especially when you get sneak attacked by the civ you're trying to keep in the game, and suddenly your forces are attacked by both sides. (As Aztecs and Iroquois in my game "Rise and Power of Uncle Sam")

Or in another game, I remember, I (Russia) placed a wall of mechanized infantries around the Chinese capital, so the Germans couldn't wipe them out. Until the Chinese didn't want to prolongue my RoP and told me to get the hell out or declare war. I then have chosen the wrong solution. I pulled my units out, and the Germans wiped the Chinese out the very next turn. The right solution would've been to declare war and stay, even though this would've starved the city.

Peacekeepers is an interesting concept.

Arrian · September 29, 2003, 10:26

Peacekeeping. Hmm. You mean I can't kill them all? Awww, comeon, can't I just kill some of 'em?

No "deception" in that game, eh?

-Arrian

Beta · September 29, 2003, 10:51

I like the Peacekeepers idea as well. I presume it is on Pangaea. Otherwise - some civs may be gone by the time you even meet them.

AJ Corp. The FAIR · September 29, 2003, 11:05

What about this one:

real world map, correct starting locations, free civ choice
standard to large

goal: become the main power; this means: control all 8 luxuries and resources (no monopoly required, just have at least one of them all) and have a foothold on all continents (2 or 3 metropolises).

What civ would you chose, why?
How would one proceed to accomplish?

Seems like a fun game to me and, hey, we haven't played an AU real world map scenario so far, have we?

Come on guys, give me your votes !!!!

AJ

Dominae · September 29, 2003, 11:14

Could someone describe the "peacekeeper" idea in detail?

Dominae

TheArsenal · September 29, 2003, 12:09

Pretty straight forward: use whatever means are available to you to make sure no civ is destroyed by rampaging others before the game ends. I’ve tried it a couple of times as a secondary goal on a large map*, as opposed to a full game-play commitment, and was not actually able to pull it off. It would be an interesting exercise to see how it would play out as a primary goal and to see how some of the more experience players went about it.

As I played it, in one game in particular, the term peacekeeper is deceptive. At one point it required dismantling a belligerent and constantly warring German Empire to three cities and surrounding it with my own empire. It also required fighting the Mongols again and again over time, and weakening their cities without actually taking any. I kept several “mobile forces” of horseman then knights “stationed” at various places throughout the continent and even had a floating mobile force. In diplomacy, I strived to keep global tech parity, and even traded extra iron away cheaply to try to keep some level of essential resource parity.

My problem was that this style of play meant civs remained annoyed with me throughout the game, and I had two civs attack me via an alliance. As the “peace keeping” was secondary, as I said, I was not committed enough to defend my own turf and keep China (I think it was) from eating up England - who was in terrible shape any way by the time I even had horseman - on the other side of the continent.

* I think this game would have to be on a large map, where AI civs looking to expand always do so at the expense of others and love to pile on the weak, or a standard map seeded with particularly aggressive civs.

Dominae · September 29, 2003, 12:27

How about making it a little tougher and requiring that you cannot capture enemy cities (only recapture your own)? Seems to me like the best "peacekeeper" game is to just beat each other civ down to one city, which is not really anything new for some (most?) of us.

Dominae