Are You Ready for Some Football - Week 8 - Page 15

Imran Siddiqui · October 27, 2003, 12:08

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Actually, I know Coryell had Fouts as his QB, but that was before my time, so I never got to see it in action.

Neither have I, but at least I know about Coryell and his great offense lead by Fouts and Winslow.

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Walsh's system which worked well with his personnel won Super Bowls. Of course he also needed a defense to pull it off as well.

What makes you think that coaches known for offense disregard defense? In Walsh's first few drafts he concentrated on Defense, especially the famed 1979 one in where he basically picked up half of his dynasty D (including one Ronnie Lott).

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So by your logic, Warner soon will be seen as a bad QB as well.

Obviously you've never taken a logic class

.

Warner had some sustained success, enough so that his starter was traded away. That never happened with Mitchell or Johnson. However, the tide is turning, actually. Warner is being seen by many, now, to be a product of the system and not that good. People forget the stats he put up.

Bulger looks good now. We'll see how he does in the long run.

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Oh and while we're trying to praise coaches here, there is also something called having good quality players on your team that help immensely.

The BEST coaches get the most out of their players, however (like Parcells).

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The West Coast offense isn't working because they don't have talent at the skill positions.

You do realize that it takes time to get the right personell to run complicated offenses, right? Just because Morningweg was there for the years before, doesn't mean Mooch would put the same people there.

Jac de Molay · October 27, 2003, 12:16

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You do realize that it takes time to get the right personell to run complicated offenses, right?

Not with Millen at the controls. Almost every player he hand-picked has been a bust with the exception of DB Dre Bly. The receivers he signed have been injury-prone, and drop as many balls as they catch.

Harrington has made no progression whatsoever, even with a healthy corps of receivers.

-Jrabbit · October 27, 2003, 12:37

With what I learned last week about his draft choices, I totally agree that Detroit will go nowhere as long as Millen is at the controls. Back to the booth, boy!

I almost feel sorry for Mariucci. Harrington seems to be regressing, no hint of a running game. Injuries galore. He looks as confused on the sidelines as Wanny did. Kinda sad...

Imran Siddiqui · October 27, 2003, 17:41

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Not with Millen at the controls.

Which is why you can't say the West Coast offense has failed in Detroit

. Mooch is much stronger personality (and is paid MUCH more) than Morningweg, which means he gets to decide on players much more.

Jac de Molay · October 27, 2003, 18:01

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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Which is why you can't say the West Coast offense has failed in Detroit

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Ok. Not with Harrington, then

The most successful teams using West Coast have typically had elite level QB's (Favre, Young, Montana). Detroit has NEVER had that kind of QB in my 25 years of following the team, and I expect that won't change.

Japher · October 27, 2003, 18:26

West Coast Offenses do not need elite level QBs, because it is the style of the offense that makes them QBs look good. Take Favre or Elway and put them in with an o-line like the Vicking use to have or the Niners have now (left side bashing only) and watch them fall apart. The west coast offense makes a QB look good because it based on a QB that is instinctive (such are the QBs you mentioned) as well as a dedicated running game and receivers that can confuse the secondary... Thus, the 3 step drops and bootlegs by the quarter back... if you can shift the hold feild of play over by 10 yards you open the lanes, or if you can act before the D can react you have holes...

As a Niner fan all I have to say is that are Offense SUcks, oh and LACES OUT!

(I went to the Niner/TB game

, maybe I need to go to more so they will actually play decent, hey! maybe I can be the new place kicker

)

Tuberski · October 27, 2003, 19:09

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Originally posted by Japher
West Coast Offenses do not need elite level QBs, because it is the style of the offense that makes them QBs look good. Take Favre or Elway and put them in with an o-line like the Vicking use to have or the Niners have now (left side bashing only) and watch them fall apart. The west coast offense makes a QB look good because it based on a QB that is instinctive (such are the QBs you mentioned) as well as a dedicated running game and receivers that can confuse the secondary... Thus, the 3 step drops and bootlegs by the quarter back... if you can shift the hold feild of play over by 10 yards you open the lanes, or if you can act before the D can react you have holes...

As a Niner fan all I have to say is that are Offense SUcks, oh and LACES OUT!

(I went to the Niner/TB game

, maybe I need to go to more so they will actually play decent, hey! maybe I can be the new place kicker

)

Elway??????

You obviously didn't follow football in the '80's. Elway carried his team to 2 Super Bowls. Which they lost.

Elway made Denver what it was for a long time until Shanahan and Terrell Davis showed up.

Elway had no supporting cast in the '80's and still made it to 2 Super Bowls.

ACK!

Japher · October 27, 2003, 19:11

Shoot, I meant ol' what's his face from Dallas, I always confuse them... uh, Aikmen... Hate 'em both the same.

Tuberski · October 27, 2003, 19:19

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Originally posted by Japher
Shoot, I meant ol' what's his face from Dallas, I always confuse them... uh, Aikmen... Hate 'em both the same.

Sure make me waste a rant.

I agree with you there.

Same with Emmitt Smith, give him the Detroit line for 10 years.

:P ACK!

Japher · October 27, 2003, 19:25

Or the Arizona line for 1

I think a QB can make a difference, of course, but halfway decent QBs can be made into superstars with the right supporting cast... Did Elway ever get Superbowl MVP/MVP of the NFL?

Tuberski · October 27, 2003, 19:32

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Originally posted by Japher
Or the Arizona line for 1

I think a QB can make a difference, of course, but halfway decent QBs can be made into superstars with the right supporting cast... Did Elway ever get Superbowl MVP/MVP of the NFL?

He won Super Bowl MVP in their second Super Bowl win.

ACK!

Japher · October 27, 2003, 19:33

They just threw him a bone... Not like he deserved it!!

Dis · October 27, 2003, 19:51

Elway is god!!

And yes he deserved it. If you seen him run and scramble for that firt down. And I think he ran for a TD didn't he?

Great game. Or I might be thinking of their first superbowl win against Green Bay.

badams52 · October 27, 2003, 19:55

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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What makes you think that coaches known for offense disregard defense? In Walsh's first few drafts he concentrated on Defense, especially the famed 1979 one in where he basically picked up half of his dynasty D (including one Ronnie Lott).

I don't. My point was that if Walsh didn't have the defense he had, having a great offense alone wouldn't have won him 3 Super Bowls. The Chargers of the Coryell era are the prime example. And the same thing goes for Martz. You can be an offensive genious all you want, but if you don't have a defense, you're not going to win many if any Super Bowls.

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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The BEST coaches get the most out of their players, however (like Parcells).

Never denied that coaches don't have impact. But even Barry Switzer was able to win in Dallas with the team he had around him. Of course he made a self fulfilling prophecy when he said something to the effect that when he has the better players, he is the better coach. Where is he now?

And Jimmy Johnson wasn't able to reproduce the magic with the Dolphins he had with the Cowboys, and time will tell, but now that Spurrier doesn't have the talent advantage he had in the college level, his fun 'n' gun is just aweful. Lastly, Walsh did horrible when head coaching Stanford after he retired from the Niners. Just tryin to say that even the geniuses with the best schemes have trouble without the proper personnel to carry out their plan.

And even the best coaches can't win with **** for players.

And it's funny how the year after Parcells left the Patriots, they won the Super Bowl.

badams52 · October 27, 2003, 19:56

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Originally posted by Dissident
Elway is god!!

And yes he deserved it. If you seen him run and scramble for that firt down. And I think he ran for a TD didn't he?

Great game. Or I might be thinking of their first superbowl win against Green Bay.

That was the first one. The second one was a laugher.

Dis · October 27, 2003, 19:57

But he did have 2 or 3 TD passes.

And it looked like it might be halfway close when Tim Dwight ran a kick return back for a touchdown for the Falcons.

Zopperoni · October 27, 2003, 19:59

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Originally posted by badams52
And it's funny how the year after Parcells left the Patriots, they won the Super Bowl.

Parcells led the Patriots to Super Bowl 31. Belichick won Super Bowl 36.

badams52 · October 27, 2003, 20:01

Okay, we're down to just one undefeated team left in the NFL, and you all know what that means. It's time to decide which week will the Kansas City Chiefs lose their first game and the surviving '72 Dolphins will uncork the champaign as being the only team ever to go undefeated (they were a great team but damn I hate the pride of the '72 Dolphins. Now if they instead took the winning team out to a steak dinner, then that would be something.)

So enter the Kansas City Chiefs first loss challenge!!!

KC has a bye week this week, but here is their remaining scheudle:

Nov. 9 Cleveland 1:00 PM ET
Nov. 16 @Cincinnati 1:00 PM ET
Nov. 23 Oakland 4:15 PM ET
Nov. 30 @San Diego 4:15 PM ET
Dec. 7 @Denver 4:15 PM ET
Dec. 14 Detroit 1:00 PM ET
Dec. 20 @Minnesota 5:00 PM ET
Dec. 28 Chicago 1:00 PM ET

Pretty weak schedule isn't it? The first half wasn't much more difficult, but I'm betting on San Diego to be the team to pull off the upset! What do the rest of you think?

Zopperoni · October 27, 2003, 20:03

Nah, I think the Chargers are just too weak on defense to beat the Chiefs.
Denver on the road should be a good one.

Japher · October 27, 2003, 20:04

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And even the best coaches can't win with **** for players.

It takes time for coaches to build a team... Yes, build a TEAM.

Good Talent + Bad Coaching does not mean a good team
Bad Talent + Good Coaching does not mean a good team
Good Talent + Good Coaching does not mean a good team
Bad Talent + Bad Coaching? Yeah, that's a bad team.

Heck, look at the Raiders this year! Best of all worlds and the don't amount to a hill of beans. Why, no TEAM. They aren't behaving like a team and that is the coaches fault. Why?

It is the coach's job to fill in the wholes. Sometimes it takes years, when those wholes are on the field. Yet, when they are off the field (like having to deal with sheity owners) it is up to the coach, and only the coach, to handle them.

Parcells is an excellent coach. The Pats won because he built them too.

Same with Tampa Bay and Dungy.

Seatle is good because of great coaching.

Niners were good because of great coaching and great front office.

Browns will be good because they have that front office, now all they need is to get rid of the coach.

Rams are skidding because of bad coaching (IMO).

It ain't one thing going right, it's everything going right... at the right time.

Tuberski · October 27, 2003, 20:04

Oh, btw, Elway won the AP MVP in 1987 as well.

ACK!

Japher · October 27, 2003, 20:06

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So enter the Kansas City Chiefs first loss challenge!!!

That's a tough one... Every week each team looks so different. It could be Cincinnati for all I know! They sure showed the Seahawks what for.

Zopperoni · October 27, 2003, 20:08

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Originally posted by Japher
Rams are skidding because of bad coaching (IMO).

It seems they've found the winning groove again.

I'd like to add Bill Belichick to that list as well. Fourteen (semi-)starters injured, and still 6-2. That's not bad, not bad at all.

badams52 · October 27, 2003, 20:12

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Originally posted by Zopperoni

Parcells led the Patriots to Super Bowl 31. Belichick won Super Bowl 36.

Okay so I remembered it wrong, it wasn't the year after he left, but Parcells didn't win the Super Bowl with the Patriots.

Dis · October 27, 2003, 20:14

Minnesota or Denver. Both away games. If not there, then they may go undefeated. Cincy is dangerous though

badams52 · October 27, 2003, 20:16

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Originally posted by Japher
Same with Tampa Bay and Dungy.

But they needed Gruden to win the Super Bowl

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Nah, I think the Chargers are just too weak on defense to beat the Chiefs.
Denver on the road should be a good one.

Might I remind you of the year Denver was 13-0?? (can't remember the exact record) in 1996 (I think, it was the year before their first Super Bowl win) and were playing the Giants 1 week before the show down against the Dolphins. That was when the Giants were pretty bad, but somehow managed to beat the Broncos making next week's showdown against the Dolphins moot.

Oh, and though they talked about the last 6 years, 5 of the teams who lost last went on to the Super Bowl stuff. Well they don't take it back any farther than 6 years because it must not be that good of a predicter.

badams52 · October 27, 2003, 20:18

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Originally posted by Dissident
Minnesota or Denver. Both away games. If not there, then they may go undefeated. Cincy is dangerous though

I would put money down saying it will be one of the 4 games before Denver. Just remember Minnesota of this past week.

Zopperoni · October 27, 2003, 20:20

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Originally posted by badams52
Okay so I remembered it wrong, it wasn't the year after he left, but Parcells didn't win the Super Bowl with the Patriots.

He lost to the Packers who were superior in that period.

He still did an impressive job as coach: the Pats were 2-14 after the 1992 season. Parcells came in and they went 5-11, 10-6, 6-10, and eventually 11-5 and a trip to the Super Bowl.

Dis · October 27, 2003, 22:12

boy, the Chargers really suck

-Jrabbit · October 28, 2003, 09:36

I say KC makes it to the Denver game, then lose.
(Check my pathetic Lombardi standing for the likelihood that this prediction is worth anything...

)