Quarterback versus the Pass "Rush"

[Ned]

McNabb is hard to defend because of his running ability. He is big and fast. One has to keep a MLB spying the guy, thus weakening the defense overall. Just looking at the QB rating does not tell the whole story about McNabb.

However, that said, the only run-effective quarterback to win a SB is Steve Young, AFAIK. But Steve Young always was near the top in QB rating as well. McNabb is nowhere near the top.

[Imran Siddiqui]

McNabb is hard to defend because of his running ability.

Same with Kordell Stewart .

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
McNabb got into the play-offs last year. He can't be that overrated.

Doug Williams was the only black QB to win the Super Bowl.

That doesn't make him a great QB, although he was better than he was given credit for.

ACK!

[Dis]

why is it conservatives are almost always drug using racists?

[Drake Tungsten]

why is it conservatives are almost always drug using racists?

I've often wondered the same thing.

[Ned]

Did anyone see the ESPN NFL preview show today. I did. It was remarkable. Just to put what happened into context, Rush Limbaugh resigned from show because he wanted to save his fellow cast members from the controversy. He had nothing but kind things to say about them. But the ESPN cast did not return the favor. They angrily denounced Rush Limbaugh to a man. They said they had never been consulted about having Rush on the show and seem to resent Rush deeply. I have never seen its like, ever.

I wonder how Rush will respond to this? Tune in Monday at 12 pm Eastern, or go to his site and listen in over the internet.

[Berzerker]

why is it conservatives are almost always drug using racists?

This thread shows without a doubt that Limbaugh's comments were not "racist", I expected better from you...

No I didn't

[Tingkai]

From Sports Illustrated:

If the Eagles' season eventually goes down in flames and they go 6-10 and McNabb stinks, we'll write about it. But to suggest, as Limbaugh did on ESPN, that we in the media have even deep-background or off-the-record discussions in press boxes or magazine offices about propping up black coaches and quarterbacks is incredible.

Maybe, I thought, I'm being naïve here. Maybe someone here has an agenda I haven't heard of. I called Reuben Frank of the Burlington County (N.J.) Times. He has covered the Eagles' beat since 1987. He's covered quarterbacks white (Bubby Brister, Bobby Hoying, Ty Detmer, Koy Detmer) and black (Randall Cunningham, Rodney Peete, McNabb), and coaches white (Rich Kotite, Reid) and black (Ray Rhodes).

I wondered in the past 17 seasons whether Frank had ever heard in the press room or on the practice field, or while having a few beers the night before games, a colleague talking about how great it was to see a black quarterback or coach succeeding. I wondered whether Frank had ever heard a fellow journalist say that he and his peers should write nice things about the black people and not such nice things about the white people. "In all the years I've covered this team,'' Frank said, "nobody I've heard has ever said anything remotely along those lines. I don't think of Donovan McNabb as a black quarterback and I didn't think of Rhodes as a black coach. They're a quarterback and a coach. Maybe someone in our business thinks the way Limbaugh said, but I haven't met him.''

Now, there is something that Limbaugh said that I do agree with. He stated that McNabb had gotten credit for the defense playing so well and winning games. Welcome to the real world. When you win in football, the quarterback gets too much credit, unless he's Spergon Wynn or Trent Dilfer. That's just the way life is. Quarterbacks get too much credit if the team wins and too much blame if the team loses. That's why they make the big dough.

The bottom line is that yes, I agree McNabb is overrated. He would have been on my top 10 list of quarterbacks in 2001 -- when he played two terrific playoff games and had a good regular season -- but he's been too inconsistent since then to be called a premier quarterback.

Last week, I pitched a story idea to my editor, Mark Godich, about how rookie quarterbacks should be developed. I told him how well I thought Titans coach Jeff Fisher had done in developing a raw but potentially great quarterback, Steve McNair, who happens to be black. My point was that Fisher thought it best to spoonfeed McNair slowly -- not because he was black, but because he thought a quarterback coming from relatively small Alcorn State to the NFL needed a couple of years to get adjusted to playing big-league football. In Limbaughworld, Godich would have said, "Let's do it, and let's blow it up big. McNair's the top-rated quarterback in football, and he's black!'' But in the real world, Godich took a pass, and I'll write about something else this week.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...nnsi&type=lgns

[Dis]

I think it's time to point out that I never liked Donavan McNabb either. But I was always to scared to say how much I hate him, for fear of being deemed a racist

But seriously, I never really liked the Eagles, their style of play, or McNabbs style of play.

I've always liked Steve McNair much, much better. I was hooked on him after Tennessee beat Buffalo with the music city miracle in 2000. I really thought they could win the superbowl that year. I made money on them because at least they ensured the Rams didn't cover the spread.

I'll take Mcnair over Mcnabb anyday.

I used to like Aaron Brooks over Mcnabb as well. But lately Brooks has been horrible. And I like Culpepper over McNabb as well

I think it's safe to say McNabb sucks

[Dis]

and you have to admit the sportscasters had to denounce Rush. They were being slammed for saying nothing after Rush said those comments last week. With Rush gone it was easier to denounce him.

Personally it wasn't a good move. Mixing politics and sports is a really dumb thing imho.

this was even worse than Fox news using Dennis Miller. You should not be mixing comedy and news either.

What's wrong with these network people?

one thing I will disagree with is the need of the broadcasters to slam Bush. The politically correct lobby is basically saying they have to slam Rush when he is entitled to his opinion. The politically correct people seem to want it so you can't express your opinion in this country

[Tingkai]

Limbaugh is free to express himself and free to portray himself as the victim. People are also free to criticise his comments.

Freedom of speech does not mean you're free from criticisms.

[Ned]

On today's show, Rush's audience expressed extreme disappointment in Rush for resigning. Some callers said they found the ESPN cast member's denunciation of Rush to be unacceptable. But Rush came to their defense, saying they had to do what they did because they were taking heat from others and had to do what they did to maintain credibility, etc.

Rush also said that the producers recently had asked him to punch up his opinions to make them "edgier." He said he had been trying to keep them non controversial.

Also, the straw that broke the camel's back was Tom Jackson, a black reporter on the show. Tom was a founding member of the ESPN show, and had been there 17 years. He has great credibility. The show's producer said that he did not believe that he could "save" Tom Jackson. In other words, it was either Rush resign or Tom Jackson would quit. Tom, on Sunday, said he had been taking a lot of heat for not questioning Rush's race comment at the time.

Rush said he understood the kind of heat the cast was under and wanted to spare them. He said that he had been taking the heat for years, but that it was clear that his fellow cast members did not want to deal with it.

Looking back, it would have been better not to bring Rush on a show without the full cooperation and consent of the original cast. Cosell was just as edgy as Rush, but IIRC, Cosell was an original cast member of Monday Night Football. The people that joined Cosell knew what they were getting into.

[Japher]

Tom, on Sunday, said he had been taking a lot of heat for not questioning Rush's race comment at the time.

That's because;

a) They weren't racist.

or

b) Black people are so dumb that it takes a white man to point out when they are being made fun of.

You take your pick.

[Ned]

From the noted leftist web site, Salon.com, a racist comment?

"While both McNabb and Stewart have improved in the art of reading defenses -- their teams wouldn't be on the verge of going to the Super Bowl if they hadn't -- much of their passing success is still due to the fact they haven't had to pass much. Playing on teams with strong defenses, they can usually count on having the score close. So their teams build simplified offensive schemes around their talents. However, that's also often the reason why they are less effective against good defensive teams the second time around: opposing defenses get used to their limited number of plays rather early. Satisfying as it was to watch Stewart running rings around and embarrassing the fat old defensive linemen on Baltimore last week, Pittsburgh fans have learned over the past few years that the Steelers are never going to be a dominant team until "Slash" learns to spot the guy getting single coverage."

http://archive.salon.com/news/sports...002/01/23/qbs/

[Dis]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Limbaugh is free to express himself and free to portray himself as the victim. People are also free to criticise his comments.

Freedom of speech does not mean you're free from criticisms.

yes but people shouldn't be forced to critisize him if they don't want to. This is what the PC people insisted the sportscasters do.

[Dis]

But what about Steve McNair.

That guy is amazing. He can actually pass. Though he doesn't have a deep ball like some QB's. But he does have many short passing schemes. I like McNair because he is a passing QB who can run if need be.

I never liked running QB's (Except Randal Cunningham who went to UNLV ). Being able to scramble is good- like Jake Plummer yesterday. But you aren't going to win superbowls by running. You need to be a good passer. The exception may be Trent Dilfer. But even he was a good passer- not great, but good. Underrated in my opinion. He made the throws when he had to.

[Ned]

It is also clear that if you are a liberal, you can say exactly what Limbaugh said and not be criticized at all. If you are a liberal, your comments, as I excerpted from the Salon.com article, will be discussed seriously. If, in contrast, you are a conservative, you will be defamed and denouced as a racist. You will suffer demands from leading Democrat political figures for your head to be placed on the end of a stake.

What all this shows is that the attacks on Limbaugh have nothing at all to do with race. They have everything to do with politics - everything. It is just one more example of how the left tries to win the contest of ideas by defamation.

[Dis]

well you have to admit, alot of conservatives have been proven to be racist

[Japher]

a lot of liberals as well... I think more conservatives, only because liberals are so quick to yell "racist" at any conservative who blinks... The liberals do this to hide how racist they are, it's a magicians trick; drawing attention away from the illusion.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
They angrily denounced Rush Limbaugh to a man. They said they had never been consulted about having Rush on the show and seem to resent Rush deeply. I have never seen its like, ever.

They are the reason Rush had to resign. My understanding is that most of the crew was no longer prepared to work with him.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher


That's because;

a) They weren't racist.

or

b) Black people are so dumb that it takes a white man to point out when they are being made fun of.

You take your pick.

Or C, they didn't want to start an on air fight.

[Japher]

Or C, they didn't want to start an on air fight.

response:

Tom, on Sunday, said he had been taking a lot of heat for not questioning Rush's race comment at the time.

Rush said he understood the kind of heat the cast was under and wanted to spare them. He said that he had been taking the heat for years, but that it was clear that his fellow cast members did not want to deal with it.

I don't think an on air fight was in Jackson's mind at the time of the comment.

Still, I think you may be on to something in that ESPN used this comment (and the heat) to get rid of Rush. His "firing" had nothing to do with any of it, most networks love attention like this... He was probably just really hard to work with.

[Berzerker]

Diss -

But what about Steve McNair.

That guy is amazing.

Limbaugh has said McNair is one of the best in the league. And you're ignoring what Limbaugh said, he said McNabb was hyped from the get go, meaning from when he entered the league. Limbaugh was not stating an opinion about all black QB's at this point in time. Imran posted an article from Slate here showing that McNabb was hyped by comparing him to Brad Johnson of Tampa Bay...

But don't let his actual words get in the way of your "critique"...

[Berzerker]

He was probably just really hard to work with

I don't believe that for a second.

[Japher]

Round 1 of the 1999 NFL Draft

1. Cleveland -- Tim Couch, QB, Kentucky
2. Philadelphia -- Donovan McNabb, QB, Syracuse
3. Cincinnati -- Akili Smith, QB, Oregon

Who the heck is Akili Smith!!!??

Anyway, also in this draft is Aaron Brooks, drafted in the 4th round, 36th pick.

In the 4.5 years they have been playing Brooks has a 79.3 passer rating, Couch a 75.9, and McNabb a 77.0... All of these rating are not worthy of any attention... Yet, if you look at McNabb's las year he had a 86.0, but this year a 51.3... Man, how right is Rush!? Couch is currently throwing a 102.4!!!

Brooks has almost all of the Saints passing records and has taken the Saints to the playoffs 2 of the 4 years he has been in the league...

If the media wants to tout someone it should be Brooks, he is a much better black QB... Or, tout Couch, he may be white, but he's on the Browns!

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident
well you have to admit, alot of conservatives have been proven to be racist

More defamation.

I could also say that a lot of liberals are anti-religious bigots.

[Ned]

If that Salon.com clip is right, McNabb and Stewart are actually very limited passing quarterbacks that have to operate with a simplified offensive schemes in order to function at all. What they lack in passing skill is made up in scrambling ability when receivers are not open, or the pass blocking breaks down.

However, McNabb clearly has been hyped while Stewart has been villified. Why the difference? McNabb's high draft slot?

I was very impressed by Michael Vick. He seems to have it all. As well, Carter on the Dallas team is doing quite well this year. Very impressive.

(And, speaking of racism, note the media refers to black quarterbacks by their first names.)

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't think of Donovan McNabb as a black quarterback and I didn't think of Rhodes as a black coach.

He might be right on the first part of that statement (black QBs), but I don't believe for a second on the second part of the statement. He definetly thinks of Rhodes as a black coach when there is a vacancy and it is filled by a white coach. This is why the NFL has a minority coach interview program and teams get in trouble if they hire a white coach without interviewing black candidates. Sportswriters are notorious for going off on teams that don't serious look at 'black' candidates (ask Detroit or Jacksonville). So they definetly look at coaches as black coaches.

However, McNabb clearly has been hyped while Stewart has been villified.

Not always. Stewart was very hyped as 'Slash' and then in 2001, where he was being promoted as an MVP candidate. It's only lately that he has been seen as an average QB (maybe it was because Tommy Maddox showed what an above average QB could do with the Steelers offense last year).

[Verto]

We all know it's just easier to denounce Rush as a crazed, sexist and racist, than to give what he said any serious thought. As said before, Rush did not say anything racist, nor do I believe he himself has racist beliefs.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ned
It is also clear that if you are a liberal, you can say exactly what Limbaugh said and not be criticized at all. If you are a liberal, your comments, as I excerpted from the Salon.com article, will be discussed seriously. If, in contrast, you are a conservative, you will be defamed and denouced as a racist. You will suffer demands from leading Democrat political figures for your head to be placed on the end of a stake.

What all this shows is that the attacks on Limbaugh have nothing at all to do with race. They have everything to do with politics - everything. It is just one more example of how the left tries to win the contest of ideas by defamation.

Oh yeah, the poor persecuted conservatives.

Don Cherry, a TV hockey commentator, is definitely not politically correct.

People attack him all the time for what he says, and he still has his job. Why? Because he has credibility (He's a former coach of the Boston Bruins).

About six months ago, Cherry went on a rant, attacking the Canadian government for not supporting the US invasion of Iraq. CBC executives wanted to fire him, but they couldn't because he's got tonnes of support from hockey fans. Even the fans who disagreed with him, like me, said he should stay.

Limbaugh has no credibility. He's just a racist loud mouth.