October 19, 2003, 04:16
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#31
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Settler
Local Time: 04:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Posts: 18
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130 - Decided to build the Forbidden Palace in Chicago - the hard way, since I haven't fought any wars and so have no Leaders. My civ really isn't all that large, so the FP probably isn't a necessity, but I figure it can't hurt - and Chicago is pretty decently located if I end up having to take away some Mongol cities.
360 - The last bunch of turns have just been building, nothing much happening. The Indians build the Great Lighthouse, and the Germans are moving an army to the east - not sure who is going to be on the receiving end, but it's a bunch of pre-Swordsmen units so no one should die. After getting Invention, I waited a few turns and then traded it to everyone for tons of gold and gold-per-turn - which lets me pump science so I get Gunpowder in 4 more turns.
410 - Got Gunpowder and did another round of trading for tons of money. Normally I wouldn't trade a tech like Gunpowder right away, but with no war options, I don't really care if everyone can see the Saltpeter deposits. Science slider is now at 100 with +40 g-p-t still coming in, plus I have enough luxuries to keep everyone more or less happy.
500 - Finally lost the Great Library with the discovery of Education. I'm pretty happy with the return on my initial investment in building it - I'm the tech leader (although not by a lot) and I got a ton of cash out of the deal as well. The Ottomans built Sun Tzu's Art of War and a whole bunch of other cities switched Wonders - I forsee a cascade in the near future with Leonardo's Workshop and Sistine Chapel. I'm building the Chapel myself, but have 20 or so turns to go.
510 - One of the Mongols' cities revolted to my side. I now have another of their cities completely surrounded, so haopefully I get that one as well in the near future. The Romans got the Chapel - I'm trying for the Workshop, although with the money I have right now it's not really all that important.
520 - Forbidden Palace is now complete - big bonus in corruption reduction for Chicago, Miami, and Atlanta. I now wish that I'd used Miami instead, since the Mongol cities started revolting, but this will be good enough.
530 - Discovered Chemistry and decided to go next for Music Theory. Usually I don't bother researching that tech myself, but JS Bach's Cathedral is a very tempting target, and the tech is only 5 turns away.
550 - The freakin' Mongols got Leonardo's Workshop, 3 turns before I was able to switch to JS Bach's Cathedral. That'll teach me to build Wonders in my capital. Lost 250 shields when I switched to build a Cathedral, the next biggest thing on the menu.
570 - The Babylonians are getting tag-teamed again - the Germans, Mongols, Spanish, and Ottomans are all making war. Judging from what I can see, the Babylonians are holding their own pretty well, so they can play all they want.
650 - More war with the Babylonians, with the Iroquois getting into the act. Spain signed a peace treaty, so it's still four on one. That surrounded Mongol city finally defected, so my empire is contiguous again.
750 - The last hundred years have been fairly uneventful for me, although the rest of the world is at war again. The Germans and the Ottomans are at war now, and the Babylonians on putting the hurt on the Mongols. A lot of the fighting is actually in my territory, as I've been giving right of passage agreements out occasionally, and I'm right in the middle of the continent. Good thing Civ doesn't have collateral damage from fighting.
810 - Built Copernicus' Observatory in Philadelphia. I like the science wonders, helps to keep up with those Scientific civs. I'm also building Newton's University.
860 - Got JS Bach's Cathedral and moved into the Industrial Age. I'm going for Steam Engine over Nationalism first, as I always do unless I'm in serious need of a major defense boost. Things aren't looking too bad - I'm number 1 or 2 in most of the statistics, and all the other civs like me well enough. The Babylonians are ahead of me in score, but I should be able to overtake them in the Industrial Age.
__________________
"It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black."
-- despair.com
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October 19, 2003, 22:48
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#32
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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A quick, point-form recap of my game thus far:
1. I am finally able to build the Forbidden Palace after near-total subjugation of the Mongols.
2. I've just entered the Medieval era.
3. Through extortion of the Mongols, I've reached Invention and have just rushed Leonardo's Workshop.
4. Also through Mongol-extortion I've just switched to Republic.
5. The year is ~250BC.
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All appears fine and well, until I check the diplomacy screen: all the AI civs are now "Annoyed" with me!? I must have broken my Alliance with the Indians versus the Mongols on the last turn before its expiration. Darn, there's goes my reputation for the rest of the game!
This pushes me to concretize "the plan", that is, my general strategy for the entire game. It's a little different from what most of you have been doing, because it's not really within the "spirit" of the peacekeeping scenario. Still, I'm playing by the rules.
"The Plan": peacekeeping through military conquest.
Let's forget real-world parallels to modern-day America (although they're so plentiful in my game it's almost unreal). The idea here is simply to knock each civ down to one city, then protect that city from destruction by the other AIs. This is rather easily done as the screenshot below demonstrates. I was originally only planning to do this with the Mongols and maybe the Indians, but why stop there?
The fact that my reputation is shot actually helps the plan significantly. The major restriction in this scenario is not being able to conquer cities without your enemy declaring war on you first. But if all the AIs are Annoyed or Furious with me, it should not be too hard to get them to declare war: a failed steal tech attempt or a demand to leave my territory should do the trick. There are difficulties with this, however. First, trading with the AIs will be very difficult; I cannot expect to sign any gpt deals other than for Luxuries. Second, I will have to constantly make sure that I'm getting the right civs to declare war on me: if some irate neighbor decides that I'm just too much trouble, I may find myself in trouble (remember, I'm still significantly behind in tech after artificially keeping myself back in the Ancient era).
Below is a screenshot of what Mongolia will basically look like for the rest of the game. Notice that the Babs really want to put the nail in the coffin here, but cannot because of my slave shield. The Babs are bombarding the heck out of that city, but that's fine with me as long as they do not capture it (yup, I'm Evil Abe!). I will have to set up a naval screen before Amphibious Warfare comes around.
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And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
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October 19, 2003, 23:12
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#33
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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Take a brief look at my minimap (which undoubtedly looks similar to yours!).
By controlling the entire central part of the continent, I can conceptually and logistically split the AI civs into two groups: East and West.
In the East, the Japanese and the Romans are (probably by design) rather evenly matched, so I can safely pit them against one another without too much worry that one will take the upper hand too fast. They're far enough that any Alliance I sign will not require me to actually fight any battles. The Iroquois and Babylonians are my neighbors, and therefore I must deal with them a little more carefully. The Babs are way beyond the Iroquois, and so I cannot afford to let them go to war. However either civ could probably hold out against the Romans or the Japanese, as so long as no additional Alliances are signed.
In the West, the Germans are the major power, and I must be very careful that they do not swallow up either the Ottomans or (more likely) the Spanish. Since I border with Spain I can always rush in and do some actual peacekeeping when the Germans knock Spain down to one city, but I would rather just keep Germany small for now. The Ottomans can probably hold their own (did you know that the Play the World AI is actually good at defending chokepoints?). The Indians are stronger than I thought they would be, too.
"The Plan" therefore becomes a little more concrete: I'll get the Iroquois to go to war with some other eastern civ, and the the Indians to do the same with some western civ. When attrition starts taking its toll, I'll swoop in with Cavalry and claim all their lands, save one city, in the name of "peacekeeping".
Things work out as planned. The Romans declare war on me in 50AD, capturing two of my smaller military production cities. They do this with only a couple of units, and my stack of 30+ Horsemen easily handles the situation. I then get the Iroquois to ally with me against the Romans.
I even lend the Iroquois a little helping hand, because they're quite a bit weaker than the Romans and my big Horsemen stack is not really doing anything. Below is a screenshot of this. I end up pulling my forces back when Roman Knights arrive one the scene and starting cutting into my Calvalry-to-be.
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And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
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October 19, 2003, 23:22
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#34
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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Things also do not go as planned: the Indians declare war on the Iroquois too, and the Babylonians ally with the Iroquois against the Indians! Then (just to complicate things and therefore make this report difficult to follow), the Germans declare war on basically everyone! Essentially what's going on is that the whole world is Very Angry, and is jumping on any opportunity to fight fight fight. And then there's little me trying to pull the strings in the background!
Too many civs ganging up on India (especially the two strongest, Babylon and Germany) will simply not do, so I'm forced to set up a super screen to stop the Babs from reaching the Indians.
Below is a screenshot of this. Who says stack movement is the way to go?!
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Last edited by Dominae; October 20, 2003 at 00:04.
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October 19, 2003, 23:46
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#35
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,468
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Dominae, if I remember correctly you are not allowed to attack a city passed the ancient age. You are only allowed passed the ancient age is if you are attacking your own city to gain it back from it's captors.
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October 19, 2003, 23:50
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#36
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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Apart from the AI civs going at each other's throats, the Medieval era is rather uneventful. I simply spend it all gearing up my economy to for a massive Cavalry upgrade. I focus entirely on commerce improvements, because it's better to buy and steal techs when you're behind in science (the Babs being Magellan's Voyage in 10BC!). I want to beeline for Military Tradition to start my conquests as soon as possible, but certain trades are just too sweet. With all my Marketplaces and Banks I am also lured my Economics, and I end up rushing Smith's with a Great Leader.
Here's are the highlights of my trading sessions:
280AD: Trade 1449 Gold to Indians for Chemistry
Trade Chemistry to Spanish for Theology
Trade Chemistry to Ottomans for Education
350AD: Babylonians, Romans and Germans enter Industrial era
370AD: Trade 1023 Gold to Babylonians for Economics
Trade Economics, 27gpt and 240 Gold to Iroquois for Physics
Trade Physics and Economics to Spanish for Navigation and Printing Press
510AD: Steal Steam Power from Babylonians "Safely" for 3068 Gold
540AD: Trade 89gpt and 6 Gold to Romans for Military Tradition
Spanish offer Chivalry for Military Tradition!
As you can see, I obtain Military Tradition just after advancing to the Industrial era. I'm still debating whether or not a pure beeline would have been better: although I would have attacked the Iroquois or Indians earlier, there's nothing really faster in terms of conquest than Cavalry + Railroads (which are right around the corner).
I'm just going to finish this DAR off with the extinction of the Iroquois, because I reduced them to one city within four turns of reaching the Industrial. The Iroquois declare war in 450AD when I demanded they give me some useless tech (Chivalry, I believe).
Here's my log of my campaign against the Iroquois, which took 6 turns total. Below is a screenshot of turn 3.
550AD: Upgrade 51 Horsemen to Cavalry for 3050 Gold
560AD: Great Leader from skirmish with Germans! (Army)
Upgrade 12 Horsemen to Cavalry for 600 Gold
Conquer Mauch Chunk, Akwesasne, Tyendenaga and Grand River (Iroquois)
580AD: Conquer Salamanca (Iroquois); Copernicus', Sistine
590AD: Conquer Niagara Falls, Centralia, Gayagaahe (Iroquois)
600AD: Conquer Oil Springs, Cattaraugus, Allegheny, Gandasetaigon (Iroquois)
Salamanca flips to Iroquois
610AD: Conquer Salamanca, Caughnawaga, St.Regis (Iroquois)
Sign Peace Treaty and Right of Passage with Iroquois
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Last edited by Dominae; October 20, 2003 at 00:08.
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October 19, 2003, 23:52
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#37
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Nuclear Master
Dominae, if I remember correctly you are not allowed to attack a city passed the ancient age. You are only allowed passed the ancient age is if you are attacking your own city to gain it back from it's captors.
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Ah-ha! I made sure that this was not correct.
You can capture cities past the Ancient age, as long as the other civ declared war on you. So basically my plan was to make sure everyone would always declare war upon me.
Dominae
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And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
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October 19, 2003, 23:54
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#38
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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Just to make sure I've covered my butt here, this is a quote by Rhoth:
Quote:
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Keep in mind what I had said about "Machiavellian tactics" though. If you can get the other civ to declare war on you, then you're free and clear to take his cities until a peace accord is worked out.
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Dominae
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And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
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October 20, 2003, 00:00
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#39
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,468
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I guess you won't win by UN, huh? Unless you bribe the other civs in a alliance
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October 20, 2003, 00:02
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#40
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Nuclear Master
I guess you won't win by UN, huh? Unless you bribe the other civs in a alliance
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I guess this ruins the surprise, but I plan to (hopefully) be the only one to win this thing by Domination, just to add a little variety to these DARs.
Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
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October 20, 2003, 00:07
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#41
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,468
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I can see it now.
"The #1 peace keeper, Dominae has now killed every other culture in hopes of preserving the American race."
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October 20, 2003, 00:12
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#42
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
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One thing to mention: it is possible to get the AIs very angry at you by simply demanding stuff repeatedly in the Diplomacy screen. However, I (and many others) consider this an exploit. It is surely even worse of an exploit under the rules of this course. I never resorted to this in my game (not that it was necessary: with a horrible rep, other civs are all-too-willing to go to war with you...like I said the difficult part is convincing them not to attack you!).
Dominae
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And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
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October 20, 2003, 01:24
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#43
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Deity
Local Time: 05:51
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
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"Things also do not go as planned: the Indians declare war on the Iroquois too, and the Babylonians ally with the Iroquois against the Indians! Then (just to complicate things and therefore make this report difficult to follow), the Germans declare war on basically everyone! Essentially what's going on is that the whole world is Very Angry, and is jumping on any opportunity to fight fight fight. And then there's little me trying to pull the strings in the background!"
I don't know why, but this cracked me up.
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