Carthage and Parthia??

[BeBro]

As far as I know, Parthians ust mostly two types of cavalry: mounted archers (as you already know), but also heavy armoured (even the horses were armoured) with lances. I´ve read that they had even helmets with vizors(?sp), but I´ve never seen a pic of them. I´ve also read that Romans used later similar units, clibenarii or cataphractii (?sp)

For carthage: a lot of different mecenaries (for instance Spartans, Iberians, Libyans) as heavy infantry, Numidian (light?) cavalry, but also heavy cavalry and of course their elephants...

Perhaps Prometeus or Stefan Härtel can help?

Ah, I forgot the link: its about miniatures and I found some Carthagians in the ancient section...perhaps they are useful for you.

http://www.aeroartinc.com/milmin/default.htm

( the site is great, but sometimes terribly slow)

[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited August 04, 2000).]

[SCDARS]

For Parthian history, try http://www.parthia.com/

Concerning the Carthaginian Army:
Their usage of mercenaries is widely known, they were recruited throughout the western mediterranian, to quote my Carthaginian book: "Marusians, Iberians, Balearians,Celts, Ligurians. Etruscans, Campanians, Siculians and Greeks" or from Corsica and Sardinia.
I'll try to sum up further: "Heavy infantry built up the main part of the Army, light infantry played a supporting role. The equipment of the different infantry groups was no way uniform, but depended on regional customs."

Carthaginians also used the chariot for a while, until it was -more or less- replaced by a new weapon the imported from the leading hellenistic powers: the war elephant.
You also should note that the systematic use of war elephants did not start before the outbreak of the first Punic War. Around the beginning of the 3rd century BC the hellenistic art of warfare exerted decisive influence on the Carthaginian Army. For instance, they relied on a greek Strategoi during the war against Agathokles 310 BC(referring to Polyainos) and as well on the Spartan Xanthippos in 255.

For hellenistic style soldiers you should take a look at the excellent HELLAS:NET, http://cal044202.student.utwente.nl/~marsares/

Also useful about the Carthaginian Army: http://fanaticus.jiffynet.net/DBA/dba31ab.html
Notify me if you want to have more links...


Bernd, nice page you discovered! I'll add it to my bookmarks... BTW, under naval warfare it mentions the super-warship built under the rule of Ptolemy IV, do you remember? Are you going to use it in Imperium 2.0?
[This message has been edited by SCDARS (edited August 04, 2000).]

[BeBro]

Ingo, thank Sloth and Hendrik the Great for the link... But where is this naval part there, I can´t find it?

BTW, a new test report follows tomorrow.

[Civfan]

Hello everyone. I've been looking and haven't found much about the armies of these two civs. What I know is Carthage's armies were mercaneries and Parthia's was mostly archers on horseback. Can anyone direct me to a website or have any info about these two civs....thanks....Civfan.....

[Stefan Härtel]

Alrighty then...

According to hints that ancient authors and parthian sources (bas-reliefs and archaeological excavations) gave, the backbone of the Parthian army was the cavalry, divided into the heavy cavalry (cataphracts) and the mounted archers. The mounted archers were supposed to hold the enemy with flying arrows, while the cataphracts attacked in close combat.
The infantry was not so important. According to some Christian chronicle, Great King Vologeses III. had about 20,000 men in his infantry squadrons when he marched into battle against the Alanes in 135 AD. There were also mercenaries, who also had some political power.
The light cavalry was armed with the famous Composite bow; the kataphraktoi had heavy armour, both horses and men almost entirely armed. The Romans named these warriots clibanarii. They were armed with a lance that was able to bore through two men according to Plutarch.
The Romans were very impressed and shocked by the Parthian army, as the battle of Carrhae in 53 BC proved.
The Parthians also had squadrons of camel riders, although the camels were mostly used as something like an "arms depot". They were sent around the battle field, carrying arrows and so, and the Parthians picked them up from the camels.
You might have already heard of the "Parthian Shot". This was a special tactic: Riding away on their horses, the men sometimes turned around on the running horse, shooting behind them with their bows.

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[Prometeus]

Huh, weelll...
About Carthage's mercenaries, let me say you a few words...
Carthaginians enroled a lot of mercenaries, mainly from these ancient peoples:

1. the Lybian tribes near Carthage ( mainly equipped as heavy infantry )
2. the Celts ( first mention: a celtic people named "Elisukoi" gave them mercenaries who fighted against Syracusians at Himera - 480 B.C. ); also Celtiberians fighted as Carthaginian mercenaries.
3. the Iberians tribes from southern Spain, equipped with falarica and coetra, or with the heavy sword called falcata
4. Renegade Greeks ( Xantippos - the spartan who managed to defeat Attilius Regolus ) and several Italic populations ( such as Samnites )
5. Balearics ( mainly slinger troops )
6. the decisive Hannibal weapon: the numidian light cavalry
7. the elephants ( they discovered them after the diadocus general Ophella's attack

Remember, Carthaginian troops went in battle divided into ethnical formations ( also Hannibal adopted this tactical order of battle - river Ticino, river Trebbia, lake Trasimeno, Cannae, Zama, all these battles followed the same ethnical scheme ). Better if you can make separated pictures for everyone of them...

[Prometeus]

quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel on 08-05-2000 10:27 AM The Parthians also had squadrons of camel riders, although the camels were mostly used as something like an "arms depot". They were sent around the battle field, carrying arrows and so, and the Parthians picked them up from the camels.

This trick is mentioned in ancient sources only once, Stefan... it was the Suren's trick i told you in a previous thread, remember? With this, Parthian general Surne defeated Crassus at Carrae...

[Prometeus]

Huuuuuuu, what a stupid i am...
I forget to tell you about the carthaginian Sacred Squadron, an elitè heavy cavalry mainly composed by high society members...