The modified scen, contact info, and Rule thread (be prepared to browse)

EmuGod · October 7, 2003, 19:29

Alright, seeing as how we are having problems with chaos and insulting here, I think it is time to lay down some ground rules.

1. NO INSULTING OTHER POSTERS! - I doubt this rule needs explaining. Please don't insult others even as a joke, it seems that once something like this starts we cannot stop ourselves from making comebacks which appear to degenerate the threads into flame wars. So as of now, no more insults, whether they are jokes or not.

2. Please....Read Existing Threads and Post Appropriately - I know you all want to express your opinions on the subject at hand, but please don't start making multiple threads about the same things. Read existing threads and post where appropriate. I'm going to start cleaning up useless threads soon (I've already begun to lock some down).

For now, that is all but I will add rules here when necessary. Please do your best to behave and be nice. I'm not going to single out anybody, you're all old enough to figure out what I'm talking about. Let's start getting this in order and stop bickering like little children. I'm going to sticky this thread so none of you have any excuse not to have read it.

H Tower · October 7, 2003, 19:54

Quote:

Originally posted by EmuGod
1. NO INSULTING OTHER POSTERS! - I doubt this rule needs explaining. Please don't insult others even as a joke, it seems that once something like this starts we cannot stop ourselves from making comebacks which appear to degenerate the threads into flame wars. So as of now, no more insults, whether they are jokes or not.

Boo! : rant :: rant :: rant : (if we all agree it's in good fun and stop if people request it, it shouldn't be a problem)

Quote:

2. Please....Read Existing Threads and Post Appropriately

Doesn't that go without saying?

Quote:

For now, that is all but I will add rules here when necessary.

Don't we get a say in the rules?

Quote:

Please do your best to behave and be nice. I'm not going to single out anybody, you're all old enough to figure out what I'm talking about. Let's start getting this in order and stop bickering like little children. I'm going to sticky this thread so none of you have any excuse not to have read it.

I'll cry if I want to, whine if I want to, you would whine to if it...

H Tower · October 7, 2003, 20:06

you're an elected moderator, not God or ming, I'd say that we do have a say in things

EmuGod · October 7, 2003, 20:13

I know, but somewhere one must draw the line and I feel we have to stop bickering. I have no intention of making this a dictatorship or anything, rather I welcome critiques of the rules or of anything I do. Just keep it positive and on the subject. Constructive criticism builds things up and destructive tears them down. Let's keep things constructive and let's start making our preparations. Feel free to suggest new rules in this thread.

Ming · October 7, 2003, 20:18

If you don't set rules... I WILL.

And after this forums last display... you won't like my rules ONE BIT.

So be civil... or else...

PinkyGen · October 7, 2003, 22:02

Quote:

Originally posted by EmuGod
Alright, seeing as how we are having problems with chaos and insulting here, I think it is time to lay down some ground rules.

1. NO INSULTING OTHER POSTERS! - I doubt this rule needs explaining. Please don't insult others even as a joke, it seems that once something like this starts we cannot stop ourselves from making comebacks which appear to degenerate the threads into flame wars. So as of now, no more insults, whether they are jokes or not.

I think this is silly. Albeit, I did not follow the "disapeared" thread today, and I do not know the full extent to what happened. However, the only insults I saw that went out of hand concerned Panag, on who enough has been said. I enjoyed my verbal bouts with Harmony, and I believe they did the same. This is a Democracy Game simulating Israel and its politics. Disagreement and occasional shouting is to be expected, especially during an elections time. Especially, since this rule is so drastic, I really wish you would have consulted with us first. I realize you are under pressure from the powers that be to bring civility to this game, and I would like to hope. But I don't believe blank censoring by one person is the answer, which is essentially what this leads.

I also don't believe it was proper to "delete" the entire issue. It's not going away, and I think we have a right to state what we believe should happen with what was election fraud that was tampering with the game. (edit, yes I know there are no "rights" on forums, but consdering this is a Democracy Game...)

Will there be at least some way we can address this issue, or will it be decided for us?

Ming · October 7, 2003, 22:12

You had your chance to "discuss" the issues... and you acted like a rabid lynch mob. It was just plain UGLY.

And I don't want to hear about "rights"... while this is a Democracy Game... Apoltyon isn't a Democracy.

I've never seen such a display before in any of the Democracy Games...

So learn to be civil... or forget the game.

There is no problem with heated debates about the issues... That is to be expected... hell, it's a democracy game. There is no problem with minor ribbing... kidding around... having fun... this is a game.

However... the crap some of you posted in "the thread" was appalling and WAY OVER THE LINE.

All of which was against the rules of this site... you know, rules you agreed to follow to become a member here. This is a private site. Civil behavour will be enforced. Lynch Mobs and Witch Hunts AREN'T ALLOWED!

Now prove that you guys are just playing a game... prove you don't need a real moderator looking over your shoulder making sure you don't go nuts again...
Prove to me that you guys deserve your own forum....

Just DO IT!

Dr. Nick · October 7, 2003, 23:28

Excuse me, whether it was a lynch mob or not, the guy was a proved to be cheating correct? Does that mean that The Powers That Be run the game and force us to play with cheaters or what?

Ming · October 7, 2003, 23:33

Quote:

Originally posted by El Awrence
Excuse me, whether it was a lynch mob or not, the guy was a proved to be cheating correct?

No...

So the lynch him response was even worse.

PinkyGen · October 8, 2003, 00:33

Quote:

Originally posted by El Awrence
Excuse me, whether it was a lynch mob or not, the guy was a proved to be cheating correct? Does that mean that The Powers That Be run the game and force us to play with cheaters or what?

I believe the problem is one of definitions.

Panag was caught with a DL, a violation of Poly rules, and thus the two week sentence. He used the DL to vote twice in an election.

However, I think what's wrong is that voting twice is not "cheating" as Poly terms it. Cheating is akin to cheating in an actual game, such as using many methods to cheat in a PBEM. If Panag had messed with an actual game file, then I believe it would have qualified with cheating. However, I guess this does not, and thus the only Poly rule Panag has broken is having a DL.

The problem is that I believe whatever technically may be cheating, I think the definition should include what Panag did, which was fraud in an election for Democracy Game. Assuming he did vote twice, which I thought was true, I must respectfully and sincerely ask why the body on this particular sub-forum cannot decide to exclude Panag from the game? Is it because the thread was considering too much of a lynch job, or is this just something we may not decide?

(As I stated earlier, I did not view the entire thread, so I not know how offensive it may have become. But I know I am not the only confused one.)

Disclaimer: I could be wrong in the above theory, and if so, would not all mind being told what Panag has and has not been found "guilty" of. (For want of a better turn.) In fact, it might help clear up the confusion among the many of us here. What is he "guilty" of, and is the issue more of the "lynch" mob tone of the thread, or the fact we as players were arguing about what could be considered a mod only power.

Additionally, should I be posting the question here, or is there some site feedback forum or PM where I should be asking this. (I'm asking in public because I believe many are confused).

Ben Kenobi · October 8, 2003, 00:46

PMed you Ming.

Pinkygen:

Quote:

He used the DL to vote twice in an election.

This is the point in hand, the lynch mob to which Ming refers. We do not know whether or not Panag used the DL to vote twice in the election.

PinkyGen · October 8, 2003, 00:53

Thank you for clarifying, though it leads to a response I dare not post.

conmcb25 · October 8, 2003, 00:54

Im kind of curious what constitutes cheating as well in a very respectfull way of course.

On another note. I have elected to self censor virtually all of my posts. I am not going to tease, flame or praise anyone any longer.

Since I guess I was considered one of the biggest flamers in "The Thread", I will extend my apologizes to all.

As most of you could tell Im very passionate about "the subject". Ive had more than one game ruined because of it.

With that being said I believe my eventual future will be to join HTower who has decided to leave because of todays "incident".

Im somewhat torn right now because PinkyGen is one of my closest friends in the CIV2/CIV 3 online world. And a friend, well, just as a friend as well.

So for now I will probably at least take a much diminished role.

It just aint the same without H!

Have a nice day

PinkyGen · October 8, 2003, 01:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Pinkygen:

This is the point in hand, the lynch mob to which Ming refers. We do not know whether or not Panag used the DL to vote twice in the election.

Well, here at the election thread. http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...0&pagenumber=2

Quote:

Originally posted by SABRA
As per request from PinkyGen; One Israel.

Panag also has various posts urging people to vote One Israel as well.

I am sorry so many people are thinking of leaving over this foolishness Panag has caused. It just goes to show how one bad egg can ruin so much.
Both Htower and conmcb25 are valuable players whose skills, rhetoric, and general presence shall be missed if they decide to depart, though I am urging both to stay.

Ben Kenobi · October 8, 2003, 01:26

Pinky, are you interested in keeping this forum?

Inverse Icarus · October 8, 2003, 02:35

have a nice day

conmcb25 · October 8, 2003, 02:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Uber KruX
have a nice day

Except its supposed to be:

hi,

have a nice day

Shiber · October 8, 2003, 06:48

hi ,

tyranny does not work ,

IMHO Ming's action was uglier and more violent than the actions that he condemns

have a nice day

Shiber · October 8, 2003, 06:51

Seriously now,

Ming, your contribution to Apolyton is unquestionable.
Firstly, you've put a lot of your time into your duties, which is already commendable. But if it wasn't for your efforts, there would not be as much respect for the laws and proper netiquette in Apolyton as there is today.
However, sometimes I find your behavior to be too violent. Hey, I realize that often times it works well (this approach has already proven itself in NYC

), and I realize that the management has the right to do everything it pleases because it owns the place, but please forgive me if sometimes (sorry I have to say this to you) I simply detest it.

PinkyGen · October 8, 2003, 08:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Pinky, are you interested in keeping this forum?

Yes, but I also want to know what's going on. I am trying to be as non "lynch" mob as I can be in these questions.

Shiber · October 8, 2003, 08:35

I believe that Ming is fair enough not to take any actions against this game if we continue to discuss the matter in a civil manner (despite what I said about him in my previous post).

Dr. Nick · October 8, 2003, 09:21

Ming said:

Quote:

No...

So the lynch him response was even worse.

PinkyGen said:

Quote:

Panag was caught with a DL, a violation of Poly rules, and thus the two week sentence. He used the DL to vote twice in an election.

How does making a DL to vote twice not prove him to be cheating? I'm not trying to be a facetious *****, but I don't follow the chain of logic. I mean, voting twice is against the law in any democracy by definition, I would guess that voting twice would constitue cheating in a democracy game de facto, whether the Apolyton TOS penalises it or not.

conmcb25 · October 8, 2003, 10:10

hi,

I believe we need to do some major censoring of this thread

have a nice day

PinkyGen · October 8, 2003, 11:11

El, the logic is that we have no actual "proof" that Panag voted twice. Since polls are anonymous, there is no actual game-proof that Panag voted twice, it is not like tracking IP's. The DL was actually made before this game got started, I believe.

However, as I posted above, I have evidence that Panag voted twice, and I find it unlikely that he did not considering our party's vote total.

I will prpose changes to the election system after we get this game going so this kind of stuff doesn't happen again.

Dr. Nick · October 8, 2003, 11:40

We have the DL's confession. Isn't that sufficient?

conmcb25 · October 8, 2003, 11:45

hi,

NO

have a nice day

Dr. Nick · October 8, 2003, 11:47

con, this isn't constructive.

conmcb25 · October 8, 2003, 11:49

Quote:

Originally posted by El Awrence
con, this isn't constructive.

hi,

im sorry

have a nice day

conmcb25 · October 8, 2003, 11:55

hi,

Look guys give it up already OK?

There was not enough "proof" of cheating

End of discussion.

If panag wants to come back, he can.

End of discussion.

Follow the forum rules or else.

End of discussion.

Thats just the way it is, accept that or move on.
Lets start talking about how we are going to form a government and play this **** game already, OK?

Have a nice day

yaroslav · October 8, 2003, 16:00

Yes, end of discussion. Ming's actions are not to be discuted.