Massachusetts, Jesus and Whiskey

[klesh]

So, the Massachusetts House just voted down a bill proposing to allow liquor sales on Sunday. An old set of laws from Puritan times called the Blue Laws outlawed the sale of alchohol on Sundays and a whole slew of other outdated things. Sale of liquor is not prohibited per se, but rather severely restricted on Sundays. If a town is 10 miles from the border of New Hampshire or Vermont (2 states that allow Sunday liquor sales), then their package stores are allowed to be open. Also, package stores throughout the state are allowed to be onpen on Sundays between Thanksgiving and New Year's.



What the hell kind of BS is this? I mean really. What does Jesus have to do with me wanting to get a sixer after a hard day's work on a Sunday. What if there are people spontaneously arriving to your house, and you need to do a little on the spot entertaining? What if you want the freedom to buy alchohol any day of the week you damn well please?

So I read an article about the vote, its pretty interesting. Lots of spoecial intrest groups ploying in this one. The Christians had a hand in it, as well as town who are 'privaledged' to be able to make extra tax $ by their favourable location to the border.


Boston Globe article.

Does your state or province restrict liquor sales on Tuesdays or anything like that?

[SlowwHand]

Texas went through a couple of years of Blue Laws.
Some stores closed on Saturday rather than Sunday.
Not JUST booze. Most consumer goods not related to food and essentials.

[MrFun]

The colonial Blue Laws were also used to give Amerindians in that region, the choice between converting to Christianity or being burned at the stake.

[Shi Huangdi]

Pennsylvania also has some of the most severe alcohol laws in the country, its really annoying.

[klesh]

But the fact that this law has no basis in reality leads me to think it should be outed, no?

[Arrian]

I live in CT. No beer/liquor sold after 8pm Monday - Sat, no sales at all on Sundays. Not ideal, but really, one can plan ahead.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

MrFun, you're bastardizing history again.

http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm


Origins:
The term "blue laws" originally applied to laws enacted by the Puritans in seventeenth-century Connecticut to regulate moral behavior (especially what people must or must not do on the Sabbath), laws which often called for rather harsh punishments to be applied to offenders. Blue laws typically specified penalties for moral offenses such as failure to attend church on the Sabbath; lying, swearing, and drunkenness; and the playing of games (such as cards, dice, and shuffleboard) in public. They also mandated more severe punishments for crimes committed on the Sabbath and regulated the sale and consumption of alcohol. Violators of blue laws might be assessed monetary fines, be whipped, be forced to spend time in the stocks, have body parts burned or cut off, or even receive the death penalty. As the influence of the colonial Puritan theocracies declined after the American Revolution, blue laws were generally abolished or went unenforced, although the temperance movements which began in the late nineteenth century brought a new round of legislation intended to regulate private conduct by banning the sale of cigarettes and alcohol, prohibiting amusements and "unnecessary labor" on Sundays, and providing for local censorship of arts and entertainment (such as books, plays, and films).

Many remnants of "blue laws" survived into the late twentieth century as seemingly nonsensical patchworks of regulations about which types of businesses could operate on Sundays and what items they could sell. Thus various jurisidictions might have regulations which, on Sundays, prohibited the sale of hammers but not nails, forbade trading in horses while allowing automobile dealerships to remain open, or prohibited the purchase of alcohol at liquor stores but not grocery stores.

Also puzzling to latter-day Americans was the term "blue laws" itself. Why were these regulations called "blue laws"? With no obvious explanation at hand, we invented a satisfying one: these types of laws had originally been printed on blue paper or bound in books with blue covers.

Not so. No one has turned up seventeenth-century sheets of blue paper or blue-bound books containing these laws, nor has anyone found any seventeenth-century references to these regulations as "blue laws." The earliest recorded use of the term didn't appear until well over a century later, when the Reverend Samuel Peters' 1781 book, General History of Connecticut, described onerous colonial laws in the following manner:

Blue Laws; i.e. bloody Laws; for they were all sanctified with whipping, cutting off the ears, burning the tongue, and death.

(A variant of this tale posits a self-referential origin for the term by claiming that Peters' book itself was printed on blue paper!)

Although Peters maintained that early colonists did refer to these laws as "blue laws," he did not claim that the name was taken from the paper they were printed on, nor is there any evidence of an earlier usage of the term than his own. Since parts of Peters' book (such as his list of forty-five putative "blue laws") have since been found unreliable, it's possible he may simply have invented the term "blue laws" himself. If not, the term most likely derived from an eighteenth-century usage of the word "blue" as a disparaging reference to something perceived as "rigidly moral" (a "bluenose," for example, is one who advocates a rigorous moral code), not from the color of the material on which the laws themselves were printed.

[Arrian]

Many remnants of "blue laws" survived into the late twentieth century as seemingly nonsensical patchworks of regulations about which types of businesses could operate on Sundays and what items they could sell.

Yep, that sounds about right.

-Arrian

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
MrFun, you're bastardizing history again.

http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm


Origins:
The term "blue laws" originally applied to laws enacted by the Puritans in seventeenth-century Connecticut to regulate moral behavior (especially what people must or must not do on the Sabbath), laws which often called for rather harsh punishments to be applied to offenders. Blue laws typically specified penalties for moral offenses such as failure to attend church on the Sabbath; lying, swearing, and drunkenness; and the playing of games (such as cards, dice, and shuffleboard) in public. They also mandated more severe punishments for crimes committed on the Sabbath and regulated the sale and consumption of alcohol. Violators of blue laws might be assessed monetary fines, be whipped, be forced to spend time in the stocks, have body parts burned or cut off, or even receive the death penalty. As the influence of the colonial Puritan theocracies declined after the American Revolution, blue laws were generally abolished or went unenforced, although the temperance movements which began in the late nineteenth century brought a new round of legislation intended to regulate private conduct by banning the sale of cigarettes and alcohol, prohibiting amusements and "unnecessary labor" on Sundays, and providing for local censorship of arts and entertainment (such as books, plays, and films).

Many remnants of "blue laws" survived into the late twentieth century as seemingly nonsensical patchworks of regulations about which types of businesses could operate on Sundays and what items they could sell. Thus various jurisidictions might have regulations which, on Sundays, prohibited the sale of hammers but not nails, forbade trading in horses while allowing automobile dealerships to remain open, or prohibited the purchase of alcohol at liquor stores but not grocery stores.

Also puzzling to latter-day Americans was the term "blue laws" itself. Why were these regulations called "blue laws"? With no obvious explanation at hand, we invented a satisfying one: these types of laws had originally been printed on blue paper or bound in books with blue covers.

Not so. No one has turned up seventeenth-century sheets of blue paper or blue-bound books containing these laws, nor has anyone found any seventeenth-century references to these regulations as "blue laws." The earliest recorded use of the term didn't appear until well over a century later, when the Reverend Samuel Peters' 1781 book, General History of Connecticut, described onerous colonial laws in the following manner:

Blue Laws; i.e. bloody Laws; for they were all sanctified with whipping, cutting off the ears, burning the tongue, and death.

(A variant of this tale posits a self-referential origin for the term by claiming that Peters' book itself was printed on blue paper!)

Although Peters maintained that early colonists did refer to these laws as "blue laws," he did not claim that the name was taken from the paper they were printed on, nor is there any evidence of an earlier usage of the term than his own. Since parts of Peters' book (such as his list of forty-five putative "blue laws") have since been found unreliable, it's possible he may simply have invented the term "blue laws" himself. If not, the term most likely derived from an eighteenth-century usage of the word "blue" as a disparaging reference to something perceived as "rigidly moral" (a "bluenose," for example, is one who advocates a rigorous moral code), not from the color of the material on which the laws themselves were printed.

According to the documentary series, "500 Nations" one part of the Blue Laws concerned itself with Amerindians who were violating Christian customs by praticing their own customs.

Blue Laws consisted of a whole range of laws concerning moral behavior -- including killing Amerindians for not conforming to Christian customs.

[mrmitchell]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
If a town is 10 miles from the border of New Hampshire or Vermont (2 states that allow Sunday liquor sales), then their package stores are allowed to be open.

Of course, if that were true, then land 10 miles or farther into Massachusetts would be a barren wasteland, with a mysterous metropolis starting at exactly the border to exactly ten miles in.

[Japher]

We have a lot of Armenians here in California, they're nice people I wouldn't want to kill them... Laws here are good; alcohol, beer in wine sold in the gorcery stores (unlike most states), and sold everyday from 6am-2am, no sales after 2am... You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here..

[SlowwHand]

Where do you see that, MrFun?
Cite me something. You'd ask me if I didn't do it voluntarily.
I'm not trying to harrass you, I'm just saying I think you bend the truth in history a lot.

[MrFun]

Read the book titled "500 Nations" or watch the part of the documentary video, "500 Nations" discussing the colonial period of the northeast.

There, they discuss how one of the Blue Laws sought to eradicate Amerindian cultural traditions.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Arrian
I live in CT. No beer/liquor sold after 8pm Monday - Sat, no sales at all on Sundays. Not ideal, but really, one can plan ahead.

-Arrian

Does that apply to bars and clubs?

[Dr Strangelove]

Perhaps the term "blue nose" was used to indicate the coldness of puritanical abstinence in contrast to the cheery red warmth of a good toddy quafed by a warm hearth as enjoyed by CofE types?

[SlowwHand]

Sawbones, you've evolved into quite the little jokester, haven't you?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by MrFun


According to the documentary series, "500 Nations" one part of the Blue Laws concerned itself with Amerindians who were violating Christian customs by praticing their own customs.

Blue Laws consisted of a whole range of laws concerning moral behavior -- including killing Amerindians for not conforming to Christian customs.

Had nothing much to do with Christian customs - practiciing their own cultures/customs was for both sides a defiance of white order and authority. It was about a very secular issue of domination of the territory.

However, since the term "Blue laws" is of such vague and generally valueless and non-contemporaneous origin, you can apply it to whatever floats your boat.

[SlowwHand]

It's not vague. It originated in Europe and was brought here.
All it takes is enough gumption to look it up.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by MrFun
Read the book titled "500 Nations" or watch the part of the documentary video, "500 Nations" discussing the colonial period of the northeast.

There, they discuss how one of the Blue Laws sought to eradicate Amerindian cultural traditions.

So they take an imprecise term of uncertain origin and attribute one of many aspects of colonial policy towards the Indians to it?

Cool. I love editorial history.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Japher
We have a lot of Armenians here in California, they're nice people I wouldn't want to kill them... Laws here are good; alcohol, beer in wine sold in the gorcery stores (unlike most states), and sold everyday from 6am-2am, no sales after 2am... You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here..

Developing a touch of dyslexia are we? Or was it just a slip of the fingers on the keyboard. Amerinds are the native peoples of the Americas. Armenians are one of the nations inhabiting the Caucasus Mountain region.

[Verto]

It would be a shame if you had to go an entire DAY without purchasing alcohol.

[SlowwHand]

Japher. He be confused a lot.

[klesh]

Originally posted by Verto
It would be a shame if you had to go an entire DAY without purchasing alcohol.

What if Sunday is the only day I want to buy it?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


So they take an imprecise term of uncertain origin and attribute one of many aspects of colonial policy towards the Indians to it?

Cool. I love editorial history.

It's not editorial history.

But then again, maybe any historical scholarly work that is not WASPish or Anglophilic does not entail serious scholarly work, eh, MTG?

Do you play along the old cliche that any historical work that portrays relations between European colonists and Amerindians more accurately as just left-wing, political correctness, mumbo jumbo?

[mrmitchell]

I can see it now: Huge migrations from the inner state to the borders where alcohol sales is legal. Busses filled with people ready to purchase some booze. I could start a transport company and become rich in days! I'd better start before anyone else catches on to my scheme.

[Drake Tungsten]

Japher. He be confused a lot.

I'm confused by that ungainly and racist word as well.

[DanielXY]

"No more booze! Aaaargh! Evacuate the citys!"

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

I'm confused by that ungainly and racist word as well.

Do we really need to go down this road again?

If you don't like the word Amerindian, then just revert to the racist word that confuses people with people of India -- Indians.

[Drake Tungsten]

I prefer American Aboriginal Persons.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Mr Fun, just admit you've been schooled and move on .