Welcome To Bitterfrost! - Page 2

gerryandersson · October 13, 2003, 06:22

Super scenario! Great work!

Mercator · October 13, 2003, 06:41

Quote:

Originally posted by curtsibling
I think the fact that the harpies are flyers is making the AI restrict them from builidng more cities.

But making them ground dwellers sort of defeats their purpose...

How about domain 3?

Quote:

I was toying with the idea of removing the Undead ability to make cities, and make them a solely military force...
Would this be wise?

Not unless there's still some way to defeat them. But a regular attack shouldn't really be able to defeat them in the first place, considering they're undead.

So maybe you could create some sort of a special quest (a special unit to kill, wonder to build, city to capture or so) that would either make them disappear, or make them mortal again.
(have you seen Pirates of the Caribbean?)

I haven't played the scenario by the way.

@Asmodean: It requires MGE.

Paul Hanson · October 13, 2003, 06:41

/me realises he forgot to bring his Civ2 CD with him to uni

Palaiologos · October 13, 2003, 09:53

Errr....Curt, you have made the "Just Once" trigger apply to the "Change money" event too.....

when an urzit village is killed that is....

curtsibling · October 13, 2003, 11:27

@Pericles:
Worry not, that is fixed for the next zip.

@Mercator:
Interesting idea, about the undead fighting to be freed from undeath...

I forgot about domain 3, I will give it a try...Good call!

curtsibling · October 13, 2003, 11:31

I am also thinking of restricting government changing.

As the AI are carrying out chaotic government changes that make no sense...

Also the Undead and Ancients are meant to stay necormantic.

And somehow, tribal council does not fit the Crusaders...

I know you still get the chance to change governments when you find Monarchy and Mercantilism, etc.

So you could change then, but if you miss the chance, tough luck!

curtsibling · October 13, 2003, 12:25

I have uncovered a new and very crappy bug.

I think it has similarities to the infmaous muskeeter/knight bug,
in that a unit gets removed from the AI build list, if a more capable unit is available.

But this is happening with the Settlers!

So this means various civs are unable to even build any cities...INSANE!

Also I feel I should recreate the map for this scen...As the current one has large flaws.

I want to make a new map, that gives the competing colonists the chance to really get going.

As it is, it is hardly fair.

I need a large island map along the same dimensions and format, but with better terrain for all.

I also want to revise the role of the undead, and make them more of a threat than a mere neighbour!

Also, the Ancients are hardly the terror they are meant to be...I am going to go and devise a new cunning plan.

I think their tech advances will be triggered by city capture events.

Both super NPCs for both races are going to be made uber-hardcore!

And a new way to kill both evil civs is in the works...

So, if anyone is playtesting, please continue and relay any suggestions here, so I can adopt them.

For now, I am going map-hunting!

gerryandersson · October 13, 2003, 14:08

Make the map alittle smaler.

Maby the player culd build new walls? And maby even destroy old walls.

Palaiologos · October 13, 2003, 14:19

I second Mr anderrson on the map size.

In my game even the AI eventually got tired of expanding!!

St Leo · October 13, 2003, 15:33

/me is also rooting for a much smaller map

tanelorn · October 13, 2003, 19:36

This is a very addictive scenario, congratulations Curt!

I am playing as the Bursars with the original upload files and the undead are quite well established on the north-eastern sub-island with a dozen cities or so by the fifth year. At least the coven and the crusade are building cities of their own, a handfull each, so things may turn out different.

Discovery:
However, just because I am always a fan the naval approach to things, I noticed that ships sailing from the east coast end up in the west coast= the map isn't flat, and Bitterfrost isn't actualy an island but a mini planet with poles on the north and south. This goes for the latest upload as well. Kinda funny.

Fix: Open the scenario file with civtweak and tick the "flat map" box.

How to make the undead more agressive, fast and easy:
Add a Necromanic spell to raise skeleton armies from their slain enemies.
In CIV terms, create an event by which, for every enemy unit they kill, they get a free skeleton.
Or, being undead, some of their units are reanimated at the Lich'es castle, if they get killed, followed by a suitable spooky message ("return to undeath...death to the living etc.)

Are people building navies in this scen? Add an incentive:
The Imperion is sending supplies (Ships of Barb nationality) to its vassal colonies. If the player civs intercept them, they get a money bonus. So they have to maintain a fleet, and keep it afloat in the brine.

The colonies are still Imperion's vassals. Remember Hispaniola by Alex Morr? Add a random event by which the Imperion comes to collect taxes from its three vassals. The sum is deduced from their treasury, and then they may "kiss his royal pinkie"...

Why not?

Palaiologos · October 13, 2003, 20:23

Excellent ideas Timoleon!

That undead rising is particulary sound!It can very well solve the undead non aggression thing!

Catfish · October 13, 2003, 21:47

Looking great, Curt.

I converted it over to ToT, but haven't had a chance to play it, yet. I suspect your beta updates will outstrip the pace of my conversions, anyway.

Art of War · October 14, 2003, 00:06

Curt, tell me again why you don't write novels or something? You've got the coolest ideas! I'm not big on fantasy, but you're scenarios never cease to amaze me.

curtsibling · October 14, 2003, 04:15

@Art of War: Many thanks!

@Catfish:
Now that you mention it, I have been making a ToT version...Fancy helping me with some terrain or your amazing effects?

If you are too busy, it is cool, but otherwise, this could be a good scen to increase support for ToT!

@Tanelorn:
I think you have inspired me! Those are some fine ideas!

An annual tax of a few hundred gold may be fun!

I love the boat idea...They could even be bucaneers, came to prey on the new colonies...

Superb!

And I am think you all may like the new map I am making!

curtsibling · October 14, 2003, 04:21

@St. Leo:
@Pericles:
@gerryandersson:

I hope to have addressed the giant map problem, with breaking the island up some...

I have made it a bit smaller, with individual continents.

tanelorn · October 14, 2003, 16:57

I am very pleased at these news.
I did some thinking on the undead rising thing. If the skeletons rise within the undead capital hex itself, the city will be unbeatable, cause its defenders will resurrect instantly, each time they are slain. But if they resurrect nearby, there will be no such issue.

I am even more so looking forward to a possible ToT version with full unit descriptions and claustrophobic multi-map level undeground tunnel fighting, ToT style!
Please????

Palaiologos · October 14, 2003, 17:21

If i read your post corectly Timoleon your idea was that for every unit the undead kill they get an extra unit......

Of course that would take a ton of events space.........

curtsibling · October 14, 2003, 18:07

I have a system in place for the undead now..

A skeleton warrior or vile skeleton will be ressurected.

A spectre, wight or lord wight must be rebuilt from scratch.

(A ToT version may have a skeleton version for each human victim, a paladin will become a wight lord, etc)

And remember, the city will be protected by the best defence unit...In this case the King Lich!

Also, vile skeletons and skeleton warriors are attackers, these guys will debark from the city as soon as they are re-animated...

Watch out!

PS
I am about to test the latest (new map) version!

I'll be back soon with my findings!

curtsibling · October 14, 2003, 18:09

And the undead Lich and Ancient Soceress are MUCH harder to kill...

techumseh · October 14, 2003, 18:19

Nice one Curt. I'm glad to see you take a break from WWII/Cold War scns.

I'd be happy to assist with a ToT version, esp. with fine tuning inter-map movement and/or events. Consider the possibilities!

curtsibling · October 14, 2003, 18:33

@techumseh:

It would be an honour to have your assistance!

I think a ToT version of this scen would be a winner.

Imagine:
A seperate map that is the Ancient's evil world, accessed from a ruins area in the centre of the map...

A transport to the map of the Undead doomlands...

A map that leads to the Imperion's kingdom...

Wow!
This has got my mind going!

If you are up for it, I would be happy to create some new maps and units!

Hey!

Perhaps you can help me with a problem that has just begun to appear...

Whenever I load a game, it has the cheat mode on, I suspect it must be something to do with the game.txt...

Any ideas?

tanelorn · October 14, 2003, 18:38

@ Pericles & Curt, it slipped my mind that :

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=ANYUNIT
attacker=Undead Empire
defender=ANYBODY
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Vile Skeleton
owner=TRIGGERATTACKER
veteran=no
homecity=Doomridden
locations
189,57
endlocations
@ENDIF

is only possible in ToT. I could swear I had seen the ANYUNIT parameter somewhere, unfortunately that was in the Midgard scenario, Damn. Is everybody certain ANYUNIT is not possible in MGE? That would really save space.

Boco · October 14, 2003, 18:44

Quote:

I did some thinking on the undead rising thing. If the skeletons rise within the undead capital hex itself, the city will be unbeatable, cause its defenders will resurrect instantly, each time they are slain.

In ToT, maybe you can use a delay=1 modifier.

Mercator · October 14, 2003, 18:55

Quote:

Originally posted by curtsibling
Whenever I load a game, it has the cheat mode on, I suspect it must be something to do with the game.txt...

Any ideas?

That's not a game.txt issue.

Have you tried restarting Civ2? Sometimes, I think especially after you completed a game in cheat mode, the cheat mode "sticks" and all subsequent games have the cheat mode turned on. Restarting Civ2 fixes that.

If that isn't the problem, it must be something in the savegame/scenario. But I don't think that can happen, because saving as a scenario will turn cheat mode off.

Quote:

Originally posted by tanelorn
[...] is only possible in ToT.

No it isn't. ANYUNIT appears in my FW macro.txt as well. Palaiologos must've forgotten.

curtsibling · October 14, 2003, 19:17

Mercator, you are right, the problem righted itself!

Only to be replaced with a crazier problem.

The system I have now in the scen is that colonists (workers) appear in your city every year.

No problem there...

Except that the crazed, insane AI will not build any cities!!!!

The Zatarn are happily building a huge flea-covered empire, the Harpies are even expanding a bit...

The undead are embroiled in a conflict with the evil Ancients (who are definitely a bit deadly in this version)

But the Coven and Crusaders have a ton of settlers, but refuse to use them...Despite an abundance of plains and grasslands near them...What gives????

Someone help!
EEK!

curtsibling · October 14, 2003, 19:18

@tanelorn:

Nice event, I'll add it in...

Palaiologos · October 14, 2003, 19:23

I am certain that ANYUNIT killed doesn't work in MGE.
Just tested it and the game crashes.It is obvioulsy looking for a unit called "Anyunit".

But i thought the events language of both FW and MGE were identical...

Hmmm....?

Palaiologos · October 14, 2003, 19:26

You can have

MOVEUNIT
unit=ANYUNIT

though...

Palaiologos · October 14, 2003, 19:32

Curt if it isn't to hard send me those scenario files.Perhaps i can help you with the settler problem.

Are you sure they are settlers(have they the settler flag i mean)?