October 13, 2003, 13:49
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#1
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Deity
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Is profit different from unfair tax?
No.
The US was founded on a revolution against unfair taxation. Anger over unfair taxes is part of our national identity. Working people who know very little about economics and politcs find it so easy to critisize the government because of what they percieve as unfair taxes. It's easy to see how taxes hurt you because they come out of your check or you have to pay them directly. Why can't more working people see that profit, rent and interest comes out of their pay too?
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Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
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October 13, 2003, 13:51
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#2
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Deity
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So you perpose that people not make any profits for the services they perform?
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Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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October 13, 2003, 13:53
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#3
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Deity
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communists are dum
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Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
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October 13, 2003, 13:56
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#4
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Oerdin

So you perpose that people not make any profits for the services they perform?
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If you perform a service than you are paid a wage or salary. That's not profit.
__________________
Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
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October 13, 2003, 13:57
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#5
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Deity
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Yes, and it's a dumb question.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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October 13, 2003, 13:58
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#6
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King
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I don't get your point, Kid.
Companies who have more profit should pay their employees more not only to be fair, but to attract even more better employees (and as an incentive for the good work they've obviously been doing).
But it's up to them, of course, where the new money is redistributed. It can go to top executives, it can go to the workers, or it can build huge reserves in banks so that it can pull it all out and cause financial meltdown later. ...
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meet the new boss, same as the old boss
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October 13, 2003, 13:58
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#7
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Emperor
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profit is different from an unfair tax.
why? because an unfair tax goes to enrich the government, while profit goes to enrich the person paid.
if anything, it's more like a kickback or bribe--both of which would be endemic in any stalinist/communist system devised thus far.
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B♭3
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October 13, 2003, 14:00
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#8
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King
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Quote:
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If you perform a service than you are paid a wage or salary. That's not profit.
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The equation:
Value of service = v
Pay for service = p
Profit = m
p-v=m
If a grocery store pays $40/hour to baggers, then does that mean the baggers aren't at least in everything but terminology earning a "profit"?
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meet the new boss, same as the old boss
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October 13, 2003, 14:03
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#9
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Deity
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Have to remember, it's a person who is enthusiastic over the antiquated concept of communism that asks such a question.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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October 13, 2003, 14:07
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#10
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Deity
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October 13, 2003, 14:07
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#11
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Emperor
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mrmitchell you are looking at it from only one side of the ledger.
From the owner of the grocery store the bagger is getting paid for the value of the service as is the checker. Besides, the owner pays the bagger only from it's profit side while for the bagger what he sees it as is earnings.
Unfortunately, everytime money is exchanged there is tax. The grocer is taxed on supplying the service, the buyer taxed on the money they earned plus for par-taking in the service offered, the grocer is again taxed for the buyer partaking in the service, and then taxed again for paying his employees, who are also taxed for making money so that they can be a buyer... It's a vicious loop that has the government seeing money all the time... This is why the buyer can write-off a lot of this as expenses.
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October 13, 2003, 14:57
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#12
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Q Cubed
profit is different from an unfair tax.
why? because an unfair tax goes to enrich the government, while profit goes to enrich the person paid.
if anything, it's more like a kickback or bribe--both of which would be endemic in any stalinist/communist system devised thus far.
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Why would you want to enrich the capitalist, but not the govt? I don't want to enrich either one. I want all of what I earn.
__________________
Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
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October 13, 2003, 14:59
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#13
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Emperor
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yeah, 'cept that in a socialist/communist government, to prevent yourself from being ratted on by the neighbor, or to ensure that the wheels of justice turn in your favor, you have to pay, er, bribe the lawyer/policeman. it's a profit for them, mostly 'cause they don't have to do much other than look the other way.
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B♭3
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October 13, 2003, 15:00
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#14
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by mrmitchell
The equation:
Value of service = v
Pay for service = p
Profit = m
p-v=m
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And the question is that if the value of your service is v, then why aren't you mad because you only get paid p.
__________________
Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
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October 13, 2003, 15:01
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#15
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Just another peon
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Ok, now we have something that might actually be worthy of discussion.
Which form of government requires the most "GREASE" to be effective?
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The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
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October 13, 2003, 15:02
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#16
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Q Cubed
yeah, 'cept that in a socialist/communist government, to prevent yourself from being ratted on by the neighbor, or to ensure that the wheels of justice turn in your favor, you have to pay, er, bribe the lawyer/policeman. it's a profit for them, mostly 'cause they don't have to do much other than look the other way.
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That's not exclusive to communism. It's more related to culture.
__________________
Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
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October 13, 2003, 15:22
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#17
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Warlord
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Read up here all you need to know about profit
http://www.dmwright.com/html/ferengi.htm
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October 13, 2003, 15:26
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#18
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Dissident
communists are dum
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Yep, some more than others.
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October 13, 2003, 15:26
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#19
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Deity
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I hope none of you people espousing the evils of turning a profit never try and start a company of any sort.
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Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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October 13, 2003, 15:31
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#20
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Deity
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I like Rule 42: What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine too.
__________________
Obedience unlocks understanding. - Rick Warren
1 John 2:3 - ... we know Christ if we obey his commandments. (GWT)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am ... the truth." (NKJV)
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October 13, 2003, 15:36
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#21
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Warlord
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seeing "unfair tax" is some obscure qualification of the idea of taxation. and profit is not. I'd say yah they are.
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October 13, 2003, 15:47
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#22
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Prince
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I spend my money on what I choose.
I have very little choice if the govt. decides i have to pay 70% income tax cos I am earning over a certain amount (something Lefties loved to do in britain in the 60's and 70's)
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eimi men anthropos pollon logon, mikras de sophias
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October 13, 2003, 15:50
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#23
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Prince
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anyway, the 'profit' a company makes are the wages of the 'owner' (ie, all the profits a grocery store make are what contribute to the owners well being, his food, mortgage etc), in a big company the profits are a little more complex, but the principle is the same.
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eimi men anthropos pollon logon, mikras de sophias
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October 13, 2003, 16:27
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#24
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kidicious
If you perform a service than you are paid a wage or salary. That's not profit.
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Assuming you work for someone else. I guess your assumption is everyone should work for the state.
And profit has nothing to do with a tax. Or have you never heard of businesses losing money and going out of business?
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When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
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October 13, 2003, 16:29
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#25
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kidicious
And the question is that if the value of your service is v, then why aren't you mad because you only get paid p.
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1) Because it's a dumbass simplistic equation.
2) Because the "value" of a service is different for different parties in the employer-employee-customer transaction.
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Bush-Cheney 2008. What's another amendment between friends?
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When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
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October 13, 2003, 17:14
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#26
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King
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Only once, Kidicious should look into an actual balance sheet of an ordinary grocery and compute the increase in net salary that would result of all the profit being allocated to the employees.
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Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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October 13, 2003, 18:28
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#27
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kidicious
If you perform a service than you are paid a wage or salary. That's not profit.
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WTF?
What is profit then? If profit is not, as I have been taught, money which exceeds your overhead, then what is it?
Were you drunk when you posted this thread?
So, if profit is the money that is added on to allow vendors to be renumerated for their services then what is taxation?
Taxation is the monies seized by the state, or the monies paid to the state in order to maintain services that the state provides.
So taxation and profit are alike only if the company who is making the profit is a large monopoly with armed thugs, maintining their monopolistic status with said thugs. Otherwise profit is a system by which vendors and workers maintain their lifestyles. What light does this shed on the sacred government.
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October 13, 2003, 18:34
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#28
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Dissident
communists are dum
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Capitalists, however, can't spell
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[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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October 13, 2003, 18:37
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#29
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kidicious
And the question is that if the value of your service is v, then why aren't you mad because you only get paid p.
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p > v in most cases. When p < v, you just don't sell your service.
Why would you be pissed?
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[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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October 14, 2003, 11:04
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#30
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Prince
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Quote:
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What is profit then? If profit is not, as I have been taught, money which exceeds your overhead, then what is it?
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but those over heads don't include feeding the guys family, or the amount of effort he put in to run a succesfull company
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eimi men anthropos pollon logon, mikras de sophias
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