...the next Rome thread

BeBro · August 5, 2000, 08:43

Ok, same subject, new thread and new preview

The pic is close to the playable version of Imperium Romanum V2.0, in the very first turns of the scn. You can see some Etruscans and Samnites (green) as well as some Greeks, Gauls and the first of three different Legion units.

Stefan, if you read this: Your map about Hellas in the time of the royal peace was very useful, but I´ve a question about it. Some of my books say that the Ionian Greek cities were again under Persian control that time, but the map shows many of them in yellow=independent, so they are currently also independent in the scn. Is this correct?

Another question: have you an idea about Egyptian leader names during their independance from Persia?

Stefan Härtel · August 5, 2000, 10:08

There is a red dotted line marking the western borders of the Persian empire determined on the Antalcidas Peace, 386 BC. This includes Ionia. I don't know why Ionia is independent on this map.

Amyrtaios 404/01-399
Nepherites I. 399-393
Hakoris 393-380
Psamuthis ("Gegenkönig"?) 393-392
Nepherites II. 380
Nektabenos I. 380-362
War against Persia
Teos 364/62-360
Nektabenos II. 360-342
Persians conquer Egypt under Artaxerxes III. Ochos (359-338)
Chababash (Revolting against Persian rule under Arses and Darius III.)

Awesome screenshot!!!

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[This message has been edited by Stefan Härtel (edited August 05, 2000).]

SCDARS · August 5, 2000, 11:00

Wow! I could not belive that the graphic could be much better than it had been before, but now I know I was wrong...

Really Excellent!

Some progress regaring the first beta version? I hope "close" means a release date of tomorrow or this evening

Leonidas · August 5, 2000, 13:58

It looks very nice - hope it will be ready for release soon

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C0ckney · August 5, 2000, 21:14

Blimy,
it looks amazing can't to play it,

P.S will there be an English version?

C0ckney · August 5, 2000, 21:18

sorry that should have read

"can't wait to play it"

its 3am gimme a break

Shadowstrike · August 5, 2000, 22:02

Speaking of Rome, isn't Rome misspelled? Looks great. Better then the last preview. Will playtest if allowed.

BeBro · August 6, 2000, 02:52

Thanks for the comments!

The work goes well at the moment, but this time a lot depends on the events, so I have to assure that they basicly running before I send the scn to the testers.

Shadowstrike and Cockney: currently the scn is only in German (therefore: Rom - its the German spelling

), its easier for me when I haven´t to fight against spelling errors during the creation. But the translation starts when most things runs fine, so that both the German and the English version will be released at the same time...

Prometeus · August 8, 2000, 00:13

Neat preview, BeBro...

BeBro · August 11, 2000, 09:54

Hi again, I need some ideas for the Rome events in the beginning. Currently, Romans receive a new units for killed Samnites and Etruscans so that they are able to survive (and more

). This means also that this support is only available to conquer Italy, because Samnites and Etruscans are created in Italian cities only, so the player get this help only in the beginning of the scn...

But what units should I give the Romans? Currently they get a new Legion for Samnites, but what for Etruscans? Also Legions seems stupid, so I changed it to Velites but they are to weak to provide real help.
Question: were defeated Etruscans part of the Roman army (as Auxilia)? I´ve read that these Auxilia units were mostly heavy cavalry but also light infantry (as archers or spearmen)...suggestions? Thanks

Shadowstrike · August 11, 2000, 10:26

The Romans learned the useage of chariots from the Etruscans and the phalanx from the Greeks (for a while legions were composed of hoplites). Other then that, I don't know too much about the history of early Rome.

BeBro · August 11, 2000, 13:33

Thanks!

So I think I´ll create some heavy cavalry for the killing of Etruscans. I can give the player a text message like: "Rome´s allies providing new cavalry" or so...

BTW, I´ll support the Macedonians in the same way with additional units. And with separate events files for Romans and Macedonians the AI controlled civ of them will receive much more support...

Stefan Härtel · August 12, 2000, 00:29

The cavalry was the most important unit in early Rome's army, and the men were also on the most highly regarded social level.
The Etruscans taught the Romans the Greek march formations. After they learned this, the infantry became more important than the cavalry, thus the most important warriors were the peasants. The aristocrats were still members of the cavalry.
The infantry was divided into 3 units of 1,000 men, commanded by people of their level, so-called plebejans.
Then, at the end of the 4th century, the army was reformed again but the author of my book doesen't mention in what way.
Hope this helps.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

Prometeus · August 12, 2000, 10:32

Stefan, you're wrong about the infantry's legion composition... The hastati were composed of 1200 men, same for the second line ( the principes ), then the third line ( the triarii ) that was composed of 600 mens... So 3000 men for legion.

Shadowstrike · August 12, 2000, 13:07

Funny, I always thought a legion was 6000 men. Furthermore, the composition of the legions changed often in the early period of Rome. At least that's what I think I know.

BeBro · August 12, 2000, 14:08

To make the confusion complete:

I think 3000 was the number of the heavy infantry in a Legion, but there were additional 1200 men of light infantry and 300 horsemen in a republican Legion.
I think the strentgh of 6000 is from Ceasars or Augustus times?

Prometeus · August 13, 2000, 00:49

The light infantry ( or velites ) disappeared after the second punic war, and often they were used just for opening the fight.
And for the cavalry, it was composed mainly by italics socii ( = allies ), such as Veneti or Latini.
I think you BeBro are making a little confusion with the whole Roman first republican army's number, because it was composed by two legions, after the reform Stefan was talking about, so 6000 men was the right number for wo legions.

Anyway, after the civil wars the consistance of the Roman army increased deeply.

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[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited August 13, 2000).]

Hendrik the Great · August 13, 2000, 05:03

Actually there was no fix on the size of a Legion. It could range from 3000 to 6000 or more men depending on the location where they were stationed and the purpose of their asignment. The Legions on the frontier with the Germania were almost about 6000 strong whereas in North Africa it could drop down to barely 3000.

6000 is from the later period after AD when units in endangered areas where often strengthens but also it was common for Legions to be reduced in size because of economic reasons. Usually the Auxiliari forces where not counted with the Legions but seperate. Thier number could be as strong as 2000.

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Prometeus · August 15, 2000, 17:53

Updated news... the 6000 men legion was created by Caius Marius in the italic Social war period

Shadowstrike · August 15, 2000, 21:59

That would be sometime around 100 B.C. BeBro, if you still have event space to spare, you can swap two rules files and increase the HP of legions to represent this.

BeBro · August 16, 2000, 15:34

Yeah, I´ll include three different types of Legions to show developments in Roman warfare, for instance Manipel (-sp?) or Cohort (-sp?) tactics, which improved the strength of the Legion.

Hendrik the Great · August 17, 2000, 00:11

It was? I should have paid more attention in my Latin class...

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Stefan Härtel · August 25, 2000, 14:34

My childhood source of Roman history said a legion consisted of 5000 men

But I believe you with the 6000.

Q.E.D.

Prometeus · August 25, 2000, 16:41

quote:

Originally posted by Stefan Härtel on 08-25-2000 02:34 PM
My childhood source of Roman history said a legion consisted of 5000 men

But I believe you with the 6000.

The early legion ( the one using phalanx close order tactics ) was composed of 1200 hastati, 1200 principes, 600 triarii and - optionally - 1200 velites. the Cavalry "turmae" or "alae" were not considered as legion's parts...
Velites disappeared at the end of second Punic War.
After the social wars, every single part' strenght was increased, except for "triarii"'s number that still remained of 600 men.

[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited August 25, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited August 25, 2000).]

BeBro · August 25, 2000, 17:39

Let´s have a ancient Roman Warfare forum here at Apolyton...

Prometeus · August 28, 2000, 18:26

Yeah, it's our duty to increase the world chaos ...

September 2, 2000, 00:13

does it work here?

September 2, 2000, 00:15

it does!