PEACE-CyCon War Preparations thread

Corellion · October 15, 2003, 16:55

All of our war preparations information is scattered amongst a miriad of different, and often unrelated, threads. Thus, this thread is to collect and further discuss the upcoming war as it relates to internal affairs. Even though unit building is under my control, it is so closely tied in with the duties of the External Affairs Function that this thread will also serve as a place for us to make proposals and receive input.

Impaler[WrG] · October 15, 2003, 17:03

Well first off what our our goals in this war, is it more of a quick tec raid inwhich we capture a few bases and thanks to our lovely tec steal eat up all the PEACE tecnologies that we do not yet have and then call it quites before resistance hardense?

Or is this an atempt to perminently cripple PEACE to the point of irelivance?

Will we just play it by Ear? Do we want to force them into a submisive pact (I doupt they would except it)?

Corellion · October 15, 2003, 17:27

As far as I know, our intention is to force them into a submissive pact, however part of our ideology is to be very flexible and utilitarian. If something changes, we will not hesitate to alter our strategies/goals.

And this thread will not be for military planning, merely for discussion of unit builds, etc.

Maniac · October 15, 2003, 17:59

Since we didn't get NonlMath right now, I believe most of us agreed our first priority would be to visit PEACE with a transpot full of probes and obtain whatever we can. Once we have infiltrator information and hopefully NonlMath, we can then decide on further actions, hopefully the building of many impact marines to execute the plan mentioned earlier: invading via Alexandria.

Drogue · October 15, 2003, 19:04

Our plan was:

Aurora finishes Rec Commons then builds armoured cruiser transport. Pi Square builds probe cruiser. LL finished MCC and then builds probe defenses. AP builds probe defenses.

Once we get Non Math, sea bases build impact cruisers, and AP/LL build impact rovers/squads and probes.

Drogue · October 15, 2003, 21:22

ATM I am making a map of PEACE territory. I have Alexandria, the base to our west, and 2 other bases around it done. I also have another sequence of 3 that fit together, and a few that I know where they are in relation to those. However I cannot find where on the map it goes yet.

Tomorrow, I will do a detailed plan of builds and things, that I was alluding to in my last post. It doesn't have to be used of course, but can be an example to give us some direction.

Edit: Am having a little trouble doing any more to the map. Here is the most important part, the bits that we know are next to us:

Here's a bit that goes together, but I'm not sure where to place it:

And another bit:

This one was much harder to do as there was no overlap. I matched the ripples in the sea in the middle of the picture. I'm 99% sure it's right, but there's always a possibility that another place could match

Sorry about the colours, still haven't found a way to fix it

Corellion · October 15, 2003, 23:36

Bravo... I have the same problem with the colours. I'm going to try and get a different graphics programme (other than paint) to try and do it.

Drogue · October 15, 2003, 23:50

This are guessing now, but I looked at this logically. Tripoli is their capital, and is size 3. The only other size 3 base is Margaritaville. Since it has no special nutrient resources more than any other bases, I'm guessing this is their second base, and thus, is probably close to Tripoli. Since it matches, the little bit we can see, I have put Margaritaville next to Tripoli.

Looking at our position on the map, I am pretty sure that the others are futher to the West and North. This is comfirmed by the fact that the bases get smaller. I think that far to the West of Margaritaville will get us to Liar's Lair and that set. To the South West there would be Pamplona and Atlantis. North from Liar's Lair, would be Calipso Island. Also in their somewhere, I'm guessing near the North of their territory, is Sealurk Channel and the Sargasso Sea.

This is all speculation, and this could be vastly wrong, but here is an idea of what I think it could be:

I think Margaritaville is in the right place, and I'm pretty sure the bits in my post above this are correct. The rest is pure speculation.

Corellion · October 16, 2003, 01:43

Congratulations... you've done quite well. Hooray for CyCon logic and ingenuity!

Googlie · October 16, 2003, 02:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Drogue
I'm guessing this is their second base,

Bases listed in an F4 screen are listed in order of foundation (unless the option of re-ordering via the "best minerals base" "best labs base" etc button has been selected.) The default is always order of foundation, so that's what comes up when you open the screen

Quote:

Originally posted by Corellion
I'm going to try and get a different graphics programme (other than paint) to try and do it.

I use Microsoft Photo Editor - works like a charm

G.

DeathByTheSword · October 16, 2003, 05:15

i was working on it too and i agree with all of them except sealurkchannel i believe it is more to the East closer to us..at the same height as apolyton Prime... i am about 65% sure of this...or that there is another base around that part..I dunno when or how...but i remeber something said about a bases there...

Drogue · October 16, 2003, 10:42

DBTS: Could well be true. This is just a guide.

Good news though, I have finished my detailed plan for preparations

This doesn't have to be used, but I think is the best way to do it:

The last plan I did missed out a few crucial points. Firstly, we need to change out of Wealth before our offensive troops are built. Secondly, we need to defend our most vulnerable bases against both probe attacks and surprise military action.

This method gets our most vulnerable bases (the western coastal bases) defended against both normal attacks and probe attacks by plasma sentinels and probe defences. It gives us a probe on the transport to infiltrate PEACE. It gives us an impact squad and rover, on a transport, and an impact cruiser to attack PEACE.

mpt=minerals per turn
ept=energy per turn
ih=in hand
(p)=prototype

During 2142:
SE slider set to 80-0-20. I know this seems extreme, but it means we get the 150ec we need for Non Math in 2144 rather than 2145, having it at 60-0-40. Build orders set as below.

Start position 2142:

PS – 4mpt – 0ih – anything.
LL – 8mpt – 232ih – MCC (240).
AP – 7mpt – 0ih – probe defence (16).
Aurora – 5mpt – 14ih – RC (32).
Ec – 29ept – 92ih (150).
Treatied with PEACE.

During 2143:
Logic Loop builds the MCC and sets production for a 1-3-1 plasma sentinel (p), for defence and to prototype it ready for transports/cruisers. Laser cruiser is rehomed to DBTSverse Portal.

Position at end 2143:

PS – 5 – 4 – anything.
LL – 13 – 0 – plasma sentinel (p) (24).
AP – 7 – 7 – probe defence (16).
Aurora – 5 – 19 – RC (32).
Ec – 29 – 121 (150).
Treatied with PEACE.

During 2144:
Trade 150ec for Non Math with the Believers and change sliders back to 50-0-50, but making sure we get at least 20ec per turn (we need to change from Wealth in 2146, to stop the –2 morale effect before our decent troops are built, costing 40 ec). Pi Square grows and gains 1 min and 1 nut per turn (IIRC). Pi Square production changed to 4-1-6 impact cruiser (p).

Position at end 2144:

PS – 6 – 9 – impact cruiser (p) (48).
LL – 13 – 13 – plasma sentinel (p) (24).
AP – 7 – 14 – probe defence (16).
Aurora – 5 – 24 – RC (32).
Ec – 20 – 0 (40).
Treatied with PEACE.

During 2145:
Aurora grows, worker made into doctor until RC is built. Apolyton Prime builds probe defence, which is sent to Binary Bastion to defend, and continues to build another one. Logic Loop builds plasma sentinel (p), which is sent to Pi Square to defend. Build is set to a 4~1-1 amphibious impact squad (p).

Position at end 2145:

PS – 6 – 15 – impact cruiser (p) (48).
LL – 12 – 2 – impact squad (p) (36).
AP – 7 – 5 – probe defence (16).
Aurora – 5 – 29 – RC (32).
Ec – 20 – 20 (40).
Treatied with PEACE

During 2146:
Change SE value setting to Simple from Wealth, at a cost of 40ec. However it does mean we go from +2 Industry to +1 Industry, so costs go up by 10% of original value (thus 16 – 18, 24 – 27, 32 – 36, etc.). Aurora builds Rec Commons, puts worker on forest that will be built by then, giving another 1 nut, 1 energy and 2 mins, and changes production to a 0-3-5 cruiser transport.

Position at end 2146:

PS – 6 – 21 – impact cruiser (p) (54).
LL – 12 – 14 – impact squad (p) (41).
AP – 7 – 12 – probe defence (18).
Aurora – 7 – 2 – cruiser transport (45).
Treatied with PEACE

During 2147:
Apolyton Prime builds probe defence, which is sent to Boolean Bay to defend, and continues to build another one. Logic Loop buys 3 mins. Pi Square buys 3 mins.

Position at end 2147:

PS – 6 – 30 – impact cruiser (p) (54).
LL – 12 – 29 – impact squad (p) (41).
AP – 7 – 1 – probe defence (18).
Aurora – 7 – 9 – cruiser transport (45).
Treatied with PEACE

During 2148:
Logic Loop builds impact squad, production set to a 4~1-2 amphibious impact rover. Impact weapons now prototyped. Pi Square builds an impact cruiser, set to build a 1-3-1 plasma sentinel.

Position at end 2148:

PS – 5 – 0 – plasma sentinel (18).
LL – 11 – 0 – impact rover (36).
AP – 7 – 8 – probe defence (18).
Aurora – 7 – 16 – cruiser transport (45).
Treatied with PEACE

Position at end 2149:

PS – 5 – 5 – plasma sentinel (18).
LL – 11 – 11 – impact rover (36).
AP – 7 – 15 – probe defence (18).
Aurora – 7 – 23 – cruiser transport (45).
Treatied with PEACE

During 2150:
Apolyton Prime builds probe defence, which is sent Aurora to board the transport. Build set to a 1-3-1 plasma sentinel. Logic Loop buys 3 mins.

Position at end 2150:

PS – 5 – 10 – plasma sentinel (18).
LL – 11 – 25 – impact rover (36).
AP – 7 – 4 – plasma sentinel (18).
Aurora – 7 – 30 – cruiser transport (45).
Treatied with PEACE

During 2151:
Aurora buys 1 min. Logic Loop builds an impact rover, which is sent to Pi Square to board transport.

Position at end 2151:

PS – 5 – 15 – plasma sentinel (18).
AP – 7 – 11 – plasma sentinel (18).
Aurora – 7 – 38 – cruiser transport (45).
Treatied with PEACE

During 2152:
Pi Square builds a plasma sentinel, which is sent to Boolean Bay to defend. Apolyton Prime builds a plasma sentinel, which is sent to Binary Bastion to defend. Aurora builds a cruiser transport.

As soon as the impact cruiser is ready, send it to attack Alexandria, and the laser cruiser to take the base once the pitiful defence have been crushed

Send the transport to Casablanca, the land base nearby (that was undefended in 2141) to take it. Then the two forces together, or the cruisers on their own if they are there early enough and we think they can manage it, attack Tripoli, their capital.

We need to defend our Western coast against PEACE, in case they try anything, as it only has 1 scout per base. However I think we can take Alexandria and Casablanca early enough not to have to bother defending much, since we will move the war front far enough away not to matter. Or we can use the laser cruiser to patrol the Western coast, to destroy any transport that tries to deploy troops.

Opinions?

Phenix · October 16, 2003, 10:53

I don't think we need too worry too much about our own defense:

When we broke off pact Peace didn't have any offensive units

. Maybe they'll have build a few in the meantime or they'll rush some if we declare war, but Peace will certainly concentrate their efforts on defense and maritime units.
By the way, I think we have sufficient Plasma garrisons under construction in case they do try a sneak attack.

EDIT: If after our initial assault (and infiltration) it's clear Peace is solely focusing on getting back their own bases, we can transport some of those 1-3-1 garrisons to their bases, for extra defense. The plasma armour will be perfect vs. their lasers

Drogue · October 16, 2003, 11:05

I agree completely

Impaler[WrG] · October 16, 2003, 11:20

Its sertanly a well thought out plan. Not being a war monger myself I cant realy coment on how effective I think it will be.

I think the only potential monkey Wrenches that could get thrown in are.

1 - PEACE is alreay building an attack force of their own over the Doctorine Init insident and loss of Pact.

2 - The planetary Council convense and the planetary govenor passes on the fact we are in a military build up in time for Peace to consolidate defences.

3 - PEACE infiltrates us somehow and is warned.

Drogue · October 16, 2003, 11:36

Whatever happens. They do not have HEC or Non Math. That means we are ahead one defence and soon one attack thread. If they build a fleet, we have the defences at the most likely bases they'll hit, and a laser cruiser patrolling to destroy any transports they send. They had so low defences before, even if they build a we synth sentinels, we can still attack them effectively. We should do fine

Phenix · October 16, 2003, 11:42

We're effectively relying on our tech advantage. That's a correct action, but we must protect our bases as well as possible against probes. An infiltration would be deadly, but Peace stealing NonLMath even worse!!

Impaler[WrG] · October 16, 2003, 11:47

*Shudddders*

Drogue · October 16, 2003, 11:50

We will have probe defenses in our 3 Western coast bases, and AP will keep building them until we feel safe. Shouldn't be a problem.

Drogue · October 16, 2003, 11:51

Besides, by the time they can prototype an impact cruiser, we will have beaten the crap out of them enough. If they get HEC it may be worse, since then they can defend effectively.

Maniac · October 17, 2003, 18:25

No more PEACE apparently...
What to do now with our best-of-Chiron military technologies? Attack another faction?

It would be a huge waste of our relative advantage to other factions if we didn't...

DeathByTheSword · October 17, 2003, 18:40

PEACE will be back...mananogwat just did save it the right way

Maniac · October 17, 2003, 18:54

Ah now I get it!

I thought they deliberately suicided...

Maniac · October 18, 2003, 13:04

I have reviewed Drogue's production plan in more detail. I agree with the most of it, but I have a few points I'd like to offer to think about.

First, I agree with Phenix that if PEACE expects an attack, they will concentrate on defense units. Therefore I think that for now building one plasma sentinels is sufficient to prototype plasmasteel. Since we're going on the offensive, first focusing on more probes or impact marines/rovers could be better.

Secondly, I think we should concentrate on infiltrating PEACE much earlier than 2152 (unless the Hive would be willing to provide us with all their infiltrator information). To that end, I would like to propose that we either build a plasmasteel transport in Pi Square first, and send it to (57.63) with one or two probes in it, or first send it to the fungus patch at (62.68) and then the next turn infiltrate at Alexandria or something. Another possibility would be rushing a transport in Aurora with the help of a crawler.

Thirdly, is it necessary to switch out of Wealth in MY 2146 already? I never delved into the details of Wealth SE morale effects, children's creches influences etcetera, but isn't it so that any units built under wealth get their normal morale whenever you switch out of wealth, meaning we could change in MY 2151 as well. Or perhaps not switch out of wealth at all! After all, PEACE suffers the same moral penalty as us, and ATM we have superior weaponry anyway.

Impaler[WrG] · October 18, 2003, 13:11

I am wondering if we plan to upgrade any of our Scout Patrols to Plasma Steel after we get it pro-typed? Is it advantagous to do so? I am not familar with how our energy is being alocated but it might be better to upgrade some scout patrols (espeacialy ones with good moral) rather then build new ones. Rather we could build additional attack forces or focus on growth. I am not shure what the cost would be but I estimate it would be around 30 credits, dose anyone else know better?

Phenix · October 18, 2003, 14:55

Yes... I think the most important troops in our upcoming assault will be the amphibious impact squads and maritime combat vessels.

We might not need as much probes as anticipated (but off course they're still necesarry), because we can probably gain infiltration via the Hive

, and there are lots of factions now to trade with.

As for the Plasma garrisons, as already mentioned, IHMO one will do as prototype. Following defense can, suggested by Impaler, come in the form of upgraded scouts...

DeathByTheSword · October 18, 2003, 16:50

I agree...but i would like to keep the amount of probes they can haress the enemy and steal any info money or techs we dont have yet

Drogue · October 18, 2003, 18:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
First, I agree with Phenix that if PEACE expects an attack, they will concentrate on defense units. Therefore I think that for now building one plasma sentinels is sufficient to prototype plasmasteel. Since we're going on the offensive, first focusing on more probes or impact marines/rovers could be better.

Ok, I will edit for that.

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
Secondly, I think we should concentrate on infiltrating PEACE much earlier than 2152 (unless the Hive would be willing to provide us with all their infiltrator information). To that end, I would like to propose that we either build a plasmasteel transport in Pi Square first, and send it to (57.63) with one or two probes in it, or first send it to the fungus patch at (62.68) and then the next turn infiltrate at Alexandria or something. Another possibility would be rushing a transport in Aurora with the help of a crawler.

Possibly. We need to do it while remaining treatied IMHO, and unseen. But yes, I agree with you, we need to infiltrate earlier.

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
Thirdly, is it necessary to switch out of Wealth in MY 2146 already? I never delved into the details of Wealth SE morale effects, children's creches influences etcetera, but isn't it so that any units built under wealth get their normal morale whenever you switch out of wealth, meaning we could change in MY 2151 as well. Or perhaps not switch out of wealth at all! After all, PEACE suffers the same moral penalty as us, and ATM we have superior weaponry anyway.

We need the morale points (our laser cruiser is very green

) and we need all the bonus we can get against naval yards. Also, no, they don't gain morale when we switch out later. You lose morale on switching into wealth, but do not gain it on switching out. Either we live with very green units (which would be suicidal IMHO) or we switch out of wealth. We only get a slight mineral reduction and 1 extra energy per base anyway. For 2 morale points, on 25% in battle, that's a bad trade IMHO.

Drogue · October 18, 2003, 18:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
I am wondering if we plan to upgrade any of our Scout Patrols to Plasma Steel after we get it pro-typed? Is it advantagous to do so? I am not familar with how our energy is being alocated but it might be better to upgrade some scout patrols (espeacialy ones with good moral) rather then build new ones. Rather we could build additional attack forces or focus on growth. I am not shure what the cost would be but I estimate it would be around 30 credits, dose anyone else know better?

It costs a lot more than that (nearer 120ec) IIRC. It may be worth it, certainly in an emergency, but I think for 18 mins each, it's worth building them. Not yet though, as I agree with Maniac in delaying them.

Googlie · October 18, 2003, 19:01

It costs 140 ec's to upgrade form 1-1-1 to 1-3-1

G.