Holy Mackerel! (Another Canadian Political Thread... Sorry.)

cinch · October 15, 2003, 20:51

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Deal struck to unite-the-right
Last Updated Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:35:48
OTTAWA - There's been a history-making breakthrough in the talks to unite-the-right. The leaders of the Progressive Conservatives and the Canadian Alliance have reached an agreement in principle to merge their parties.

INDEPTH: Uniting the Right

Conservative Leader Peter MacKay and Canadian Alliance Stephen Harper have struck an agreement in principle and are meeting to work out the final details.
They will make the announcement, officially, on Thursday. A news conference has been scheduled for 9 a.m. ET in the National Press Theatre in Ottawa. The event will be carried live on CBC Newsworld.

The two parties will be given until Dec. 12, to ratify the historic deal. Then a vote would be held on March 21 to select the leader of what would then be called 'The Conservative party.'

Stephen Harper

The deal comes after weeks of negotiations. Now a stunning breakthrough and the merger deal had been reached.

When reporters caught up with Harper at the airport in Calgary he said he was hurrying back to Ottawa "for business that is important and, dare I hope, historic."

"Let's not look at it as 'us versus the Tories' in what's coming together. It's 'us getting together with the Tories in one party,' making sure we work together," said Harper.

MacKay rushed back to Ottawa from Nova Scotia on crutches after hurting himself playing rugby on the weekend.

"Clearly negotiations have reached a point where we may have something in principle to give Canadians a choice in the next election, not the one after that, or the one after that," said MacKay.

The merger will have to be ratified by Dec. 12. For each party that means approval by the caucus, by the executive and by the general membership, something that could challenge the Conservatives, since such a change would need to be approved by two-thirds of the members.

Just how many party members, such as former leadership candidate David Orchard, are hostile to the idea is unknown. The Tory caucus has also been divided, but reluctant MP Elsie Wayne now says the Canadian Alliance has in essence agreed to rejoin the Conservatives. "They have agreed to everything including how to chose a leader in which every one of our ridings would be treated equally," she said.

Others are also trumpeting the merger. "The main thing that we're seeing is a lot of federal Tories who have been sitting on the fence. We're ready to be re-engaged," said Tory organizer Kevin Gallagher.

"There is enthusisasm, there is an exictement that now we're putting ourselves in a position to become a viable alternative to the Liberals," said CA strategist Tim Powers.

The leader of the merged party would be chosen on March 21, adopting the method used by the Conservatives in 1998, giving equal weight to ridings.

Potential leadership candidates are already lining up: former Ontario Premier Mike Harris is interested, and two former Tory leadership candidates, Scott Brison and Jim Prentice are not ruling out a bid.
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Well, that's something.

Still, if they don't pick a leader 'til March 21... Will that give them enough time to prepare for Martin's expected election?

Ben Kenobi · October 15, 2003, 21:03

Well, I'm interested to see how they work out their respective policy differences.

And I believe I posted a thread like this several weeks ago.

notyoueither · October 15, 2003, 21:08

A glimmer of hope in a sea of one party rule...

We'll see.

Peter Triggs · October 15, 2003, 21:21

History repeats itself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progres...arty_of_Canada

But the Liberals will always dominate. They have no ideology: they just steal everybody else's good ideas.

Ben Kenobi · October 15, 2003, 21:42

Quote:

Although they lost popularity in subsequent elections, they continued to elect members until 1935, when the CCF emerged to take over the Progressives' base of support.

So the PC = the progressive party and the CCF = Reform/Alliance?

Quote:

The remaining Progressives merged with the Conservative party in 1942 to create the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada.

:hmm: It only took them 7 years. The Alliance has existed for longer than the CCF.

Conservative Alliance party anyone?

notyoueither · October 15, 2003, 21:51

Ahhh... no.

The Progressives were, like the CCF, a prairie protest party in the beginning.

During the deepening depression, many in the West turned to the promise of social justice as told by Tommy Douglas. One ideology supplanted another in some quarters.

cinch · October 16, 2003, 12:51

One wonders what this new party's policy on homosexuality will be? I can't imagine there'd be much solidarity here...

Furthermore, is there a place for Red Tories in this new, probably-gonna-lean-further-right Conservative party?

Ben Kenobi · October 16, 2003, 13:23

Well, the conservatives had both Brison and Elsie Wayne in the party, and were split on the Alliance motion on traditional marriage.

I'd expect to see both sides embrace traditional marriage just because the Tories don't have a clear policy.

But we shall see.

Asher · October 16, 2003, 13:24

I wouldn't be caught dead voting for the CA.

Looks like I'll have to abstain from the next election and move to Rwanda.

Ben Kenobi · October 16, 2003, 13:35

What's wrong with voting for the NDP?

In Alberta?

Asher · October 16, 2003, 13:37

Richelieu · October 16, 2003, 14:03

Anything is better than the current 1 party - Liberal dictatorship.

cinch · October 16, 2003, 17:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
What's wrong with voting for the NDP?

In Alberta?

The funny thing about this:

Alberta NDP Provincial leader Brian Mason is actually starting to sound like the most fiscally conservative politician in the province. He's always going on about the Tories wasting taxpayer money, with misplaced spending and so forth.

Even our Commies are conservative!

Garth Vader · October 16, 2003, 17:43

Our provincial NDP is the most fiscally conservative party in the province.

notyoueither · October 16, 2003, 18:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
I wouldn't be caught dead voting for the CA.

Looks like I'll have to abstain from the next election and move to Rwanda.

We'll have to see who wins the battle for the soul of the new party. People like Clark, and those who support him are not going to give up.

From the sounds of it, many socially conservative CA supporters are not too happy with these developments. I take that as a good sign.

cinch · October 21, 2003, 18:13

Instead of starting another CanPol thread, I'll just post this here:

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PM denies plan to send troops into Quebec
Last Updated Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:45:49
OTTAWA - Members of the federal cabinet on Tuesday denied there was ever a plan to send Canadian forces into Quebec, had the separatist forces won the 1995 referendum.

Reporters on Parliament Hill asked several senior members of the cabinet about allegations that Prime Minister Jean Chrétien was prepared to send in the troops to protect federal buildings.

Transport Minister David Collenette, who was defence minister at the time of the referendum, refused to comment, saying he hasn't read the file.

The "No" vote narrowly defeated the "Yes" vote – 50.6 per cent to 49.4 per cent.

"It was never discussed in cabinet," said Deputy Prime Minister John Manley, who was industry minister in 1995.

The allegations are contained in an as-yet unpublished biography of Chrétien written by Lawrence Martin. The book is titled Iron Man: The Defiant Reign of Jean Chrétien.

Industry Minister Allan Rock said he was not aware of any plans that involved sending troops into Quebec.

Stephane Dion, who wasn't in the government in 1995, but became Intergovernmental Affairs Minister in early 1996, said Ottawa was always ready to negotiate following a Yes victory in a clearly worded referendum.

Chrétien, who has been in Thailand for the APEC summit, said – speaking in French – the whole idea is "bullshit."
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First of all: I don't really think this should be a controversial issue at all. If the Nationalists HAD won the referendum, I would most certainly have wanted Cretch to send in the troops to protect Federal Property until a time of safe handover. The streets'd likely be pandemonium at first, and then you'd have some small groups of radicals (not the majority of Nationalists, by any means) looking to desecrate reminders of Canadian federalism.

Secondly: Chretien is an ass, and he makes a lot of mistakes, but at least he still makes things a little interesting as he tries his best to imitate his hero.

"Bullshit!" Gold.

cinch · October 21, 2003, 18:17

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither

We'll have to see who wins the battle for the soul of the new party. People like Clark, and those who support him are not going to give up.

From the sounds of it, many socially conservative CA supporters are not too happy with these developments. I take that as a good sign.

Yeah, that's basically what I was asking about in the first post. It will indeed be interesting to see how right, exactly, the party ends up being.

From the looks of it, early on, it seems that the CA are more pissed than the Tories, so I think we might be seeing a more centre-right party than a fringe one. Right of Clark, to be sure, but much left of Hill/Harper... Maybe somewhere around Mackay?

The interesting thing about this is: the next fed election will be my first chance to vote, and it'll be interesting to see who I wind up voting for. I was actually heavily considering the PCs, because I like Clark and his the way he did things, but I'm not very likely to vote for the new Conservatives... And the NDP is a little too left, even for me... Which leaves the Liberals. Shudder.

Things are looking... down.

Well, I guess it's Natural Law for me!

St Leo · October 21, 2003, 19:48

The Progressive Conservatives should have merged with the New Democrats. They have a lot more in common and people would vote for that.

This, OTOH, basically destroys all the credibility the PCs had.

notyoueither · October 21, 2003, 20:10

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ha!

cinch · November 6, 2003, 01:05

NDP Majority In Saskatchewan! (This didn't warrant it's own thread, so didn't get one!)

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NDP majority in Saskatchewan
Last Updated Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:39:24
REGINA - Saskatchewan voters have returned NDP Premier Lorne Calvert to power in an election thriller, giving the government a fourth straight term.

"They said it couldn't be done…we did it!" said a jubilant Calvert.

The New Democrats won 30 of the 58 seats in the legislature. The Saskatchewan Party won 28, while the Liberals were shut out.

Thirteen cabinet ministers were re-elected, as well as leader Calvert. The NDP went up about seven per cent in the popular vote.

The NDP showed early gains by taking key rural seats from the Saskatchewan Party, credited to a concentrated late-campaign push.

"The momentum changed, the momentum came to New Democrats, the momentum is now with Saskatchewan," said Calvert.

People say they want change and have entrusted our party to lead that change, said the premier.

"We will build a better Saskatchewan for Saskatchewan families. That is our pledge," he said.

Calvert campaigned on a promise not to sell Crown corporations, boost health care, continue a series of small tax cuts and reduce student loan debt.

The Saskatchewan Party made inroads with urban voters by taking its first-ever seat in Saskatoon. The Saskatchewan Party had advocated corporate tax cuts, a review of Crown corporations and a work-for-welfare program.

Saskatchewan Party leader Elwin Hermanson won his own riding of Rosetown-Elrose, with two-thirds of the popular vote.

"Obviously we're disappointed," said Hermanson.

"Let's remember, friends, that the Saskatchewan Party is still a young party," he said "we don't need to hang our head." Campaign workers, supporters, and voters can feel proud, he said.

Calling it a "beachead," Hermanson commented on the party's success in winning three urban seats, and especially noted its first victory in Saskatoon.

"We have been a good opposition in the past and we intend to be even a better opposition in the future." He also commented on the collapse of the Liberal party, saying it was obvious that Liberal support moved to the NDP and not the Saskatchewan Party.

The Liberal party was shut out of the legislature, including leader David Karwacki.

"This is not the result we were hoping for," said Karwacki.

Karwacki, who had said he would not take part in a negative campaign, thanked Liberals for running a campaign "with dignity."

Voter turnout was 70 per cent, up eight per cent from the record low turnout in 1999.
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I was actually expecting a SaskParty victory this go-around. Things everywhere seem to be trending right, but I guess Saskatchewanians are determined to buck that trend.

I wonder what the deal breaker was? My guess: people feared that Hermanson would deregulate Auto Insurance, leading to an Albertaesque fiasco. I'm willing to bet that most people in Saskatchewan know tonnes of Albertans, and they like to feel smugly superior whenever their "Have" counterparts whine about auto insurance.

But I could be wrong.

KrazyHorse · November 6, 2003, 01:09

You're right; it doesn't deserve it's own thread.

KrazyHorse · November 6, 2003, 01:10

What's the word regarding the likelihood of the PC accepting the deal? 2/3 in favour seems like a pretty large requirement...

Ben Kenobi · November 6, 2003, 01:51

Krazyhorse:

I think the deal will go ahead even with Orchard and his acolytes trying to sink a deal.

Remember the relative sizes of the party memberships, a small number of Alliance Party members switching could really swing the PC vote.

Tingkai · November 6, 2003, 03:13

Quote:

Originally posted by cinch
Things everywhere seem to be trending right, but I guess Saskatchewanians are determined to buck that trend.

So far this year:
Nfld - PC
Nova Scotia - PC
New Brunswick - PC
PEI - PC
Quebec election - Liberals win
Manitoba election - NDP win
Ontario election - Liberals win
Now Saskatchewan re-elects the NDP

notyoueither · November 6, 2003, 04:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Krazyhorse:

I think the deal will go ahead even with Orchard and his acolytes trying to sink a deal.

Remember the relative sizes of the party memberships, a small number of Alliance Party members switching could really swing the PC vote.

Hmmm. Reminds me of the sort of cynical manipulation that Liberals are famous for.

I guess Reform has come a long way.