Woman in Florida left to die in hospital

[Kuciwalker]

She's in a COMA. Complete unconsciousness, 24/7, except on Christmas and Easter

[Dis]

people come out of comas

haven't you seen Kill Bill vol 1?

[self biased]

no... i don't beleive so...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Dissident
people come out of comas

After 13 years?

[self biased]

shore have. besides... if i'm mistaken, she's not quite in a coma.

[Jon Miller]

yes

people ahve come out of coma's after longer times

Jon Miller

[TheStinger]

PVS is different to normal comas.

In comas where people wake up there is brain activity of a completley different type to that in this case.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by self biased
i dunno, guys... i've worked with some people who are pretty damn near vegatative in the group homes i used to work in. these people did, though, have their likes and dislikes, they were aware of their enviroment to a certain extent, and they sure as hell deserve a chance to live.

here's a question: how much of that million went to her treatment? it is entirely possible with therapy could have given some degree of recovery. i'm not talking about a complete turnaround, but perhaps she'd be more coherent.

None.

Here is a Hannity & Colmes interview involving both sides. It has been "edited for clarity":

Friday, August 15, 2003

This is a partial transcript from Hannity & Colmes, August, 13 2003 that has been edited for clarity. Click here to order a transcript of the entire show.





ALAN COLMES, HOST: Terry Schindler Schiavo suffered brain damage more than a decade ago and a Florida court has ruled that she is in a persistent vegetative state (search).

Her husband Michael wants her removed from life support, but her parents have been fighting for years to keep that from happening. The Florida appeals court has ruled against the parents. They're now trying to convince the Florida Supreme Court (search) to hear a final appeal.

We'll hear from Michael Schiavo's attorney in a few minutes. First, joining us now is Terry's father, Robert Schindler, also Terry's sister, Susan Carr.

We thank you both very much for being with us.

ROBERT SCHINDLER, FATHER OF TERRY SCHIAVO: Thank you.

COLMES: Mr. Schindler, let me go to you first. Why are you opposing Michael's wishes on this, who claims, I guess, that what he is doing is in his wife's…would be in her wishes.

SCHINDLER: Well, actually, they're not Terry's wishes. They're fabricated wishes. The bulk of her family and her friends have come out and said Terry never ever made these type of wishes.

And the court decision was predicated on him saying that Terry did these wishes and his brother and his sister-in-law. So they're really bogus wishes.

COLMES: Why would he be making these bogus claims?

SCHINDLER: Well, there was a motivation initially that there was an award of close to $1.6 million that was put in Terry's medical trust fund. And if Terry would have died, he inherits all that money.

COLMES: You're claiming he's doing this for crass financial reasons? That is his sole motivation? Doesn't care about the well-being of his wife and is purely in this to get money?

SCHINDLER: Well, the videos that you're looking at now and I saw on your screen depicts a girl that's been totally abandoned for the past 12 years. And that's what happens when someone has brain damage and they're not treated. And Terry's never been treated. The past three years she's been in solitary confinement.



COLMES: Susan, let me bring you in here. You know that a court has ruled and a panel in addition to that court, I guess, has ruled that, you know, they've done everything they could do and that they don't feel…a judge ruled that there would be additional medical treatment that could help.

How do you respond to what the court said about this?

SUSAN CARR, SISTER ON LIFE SUPPORT: Well, you know, we have more than 13 doctors that have come on affidavits that say that Terry can be helped. And the courts have ignored that. And other evidence that shows that Terry is not in the condition that has been misrepresented.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: All right. Let me go to both of you here. And I'm very sorry that this has happened. It's a tragic situation.

If the Florida appeals court ruled against you, Robert, correct, as we've been saying.

SCHINDLER: That's correct.

HANNITY: And you're trying to convince the Florida Supreme Court. I want to show this video. This is the balloon video, and you're saying this proves that she's following the balloon and that this proves that she's alive. She's aware. She's conscious, isn't that what…the case you're making?

SCHINDLER: What the balloon does, Terry, when we visit her. I mean, she just beams like a Christmas tree. And she interacts with us. She's trying to talk. We have a speech pathologist that's on record saying she's trying to talk. And it seems everybody can see that Terry is reacting, with the exception of the court system.

HANNITY: Yes. Let me show another video here. Because I think this is very important. I mean, why aren't they…you know, let's go on the side of caution here. I want to show the tape of your mom, and this is it here. This is your mother and she's obviously. I've seen this video. Seems to me she's obviously reacting to her here.

SCHINDLER: Well, when she sees her mother. There's just a distinct look of pleasure comes on her face. And then she'll start…she tries to talk. And it's incredible. I mean, she's actually trying to communicate.

HANNITY: Susan…go ahead.

SCHINDLER: No, I say, unfortunately, she hasn't had any kind of therapy. She hasn't been helped. And that's the end product of someone that's been abandoned for all those years. It's just tragic.

HANNITY: Susan, do you think they're trying to kill your sister?

CARR: Absolutely. You know, Terry is merely a disabled woman that needs aggressive therapy to get better. Keep in mind, Terry could be here today, she could be sitting next to me. She doesn't have to stay in that room.

HANNITY: And you think it's for money?

CARR: Well, I mean, initially the motivation was money, but I don't know how much money is left since most of it has gone to his attorney.

COLMES: We wish her well. We hope that this has a happy ending. We thank you both very much for being with us.

SCHINDLER: No problem.

COLMES: Robert Schindler, Susan Carr, thank you.

HANNITY: Joining us now for the other side of this story, Michael Schiavo's attorney, author of Litigation: A Spiritual Practice. George Felos is with us.

George, well, you heard everything that was just head said here. When I look at that video, I see life in that woman.

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: Well, Terry Schiavo is alive. There's absolutely no doubt about that.

She's in a vegetative condition, which means she has sleep cycles, she has wake cycles. Her body can respond to the environment, but she has no consciousness. And that's not me saying this. We've had two trials over 5 1/2 years of litigation, a trial judge and panels of appellate court that said the same thing.

HANNITY: All right. If that's the case and he doesn't want this to happen, and he wants to be done with this in the sense that he wants to pull off the life support. And the parents and the sister want it, why wouldn't he at least give them that wish and if they want to take care of her now and they want to take over the medical care of her, why can't they just say, ‘OK, this is important to you, I disagree but if it's important to you, it's your daughter. It's your sister, I loved her once. Let me give her to you.’

Why doesn't he just have the graciousness to do that for them?

FELOS: He didn't love her once, he loves her now. And the thing is this case is not about the parents' wishes or the husband's wishes. It's about Terry's wish. She has the right, even though she's incapacitated, to make her own treatment decisions.

HANNITY: But do you have any evidence she wanted this?

FELOS: Terry Schiavo said if she ever had to be dependent on the care of others, she wouldn't want to remain.

HANNITY: Did she say it in writing?

FELOS: Not in writing. She said, ‘No tubes for me.’ She said, ‘I don't want to stay alive artificially.’ But that's not me saying that. The court found that those were her wishes by clear and convincing evidence.

COLMES: It's Alan Colmes. Let me ask you about the charges that your client is in this for the money. You heard that charge being made just a few moments ago. Can you address that, please?

FELOS: It's just preposterous. When there was money, my client offered to donate it to charity to end this case. And there is no money. My client won't receive a penny as a result of Terry's death.

I mean, he has been in this case because he's a husband who said to his wife when his wife said, ‘Honey, please don't let me live that way, promise me,’ he's been keeping his promise. And at a great price.

COLMES: Well, the parents are saying that those were not her wishes. Her parents are saying that it's not what she wanted. So how do you prove that it was?

FELOS: Well, that's what we have courts for and that's what we have trials. We had an independent person, a judge, listen to our witnesses, listen to their witnesses, and this is the judge's conclusion.

The Schindlers have had an opportunity to present their doctors and we've presented our doctors. And the courts found beyond any doubt whatsoever that Terry is in a vegetative state.

COLMES: Why not err on the side of life and on the side of the possibility that some miracle could take place?

FELOS: Well, I'm all in favor of miracles but if you take the position that a miracle could take place at anytime then everyone would have to be hooked up to life support and medical treatment against their wishes.

COLMES: But if the family, like the parents, are willing to support her, are willing to take care of her, and you never know what can happen, stranger things have happened, why not err on that side, the side of life over death?

FELOS: Because we have a right to refuse medical treatment. Just because there's a treatment out there that can be applied to us, it doesn't mean we have to have it.

And this case is not about her parent’s ideology. They may want it for themselves, but that's not what Terry wanted. And we have a duty and her husband has a duty to have these wishes carried out.

HANNITY: All right. Well, I find myself in agreement with Alan. Err on the side of life in this particular case. Appreciate you being with us. Thank you for your time.

FELOS: Or condemn somebody to a life that they chose not to live.

HANNITY: You never know. Miracles can happen. I mean, I believe in them. Thank you, Mr. Felos.

Click here to order the entire transcript of the show.

Copy: Content and Programming Copyright 2003 Fox News Network, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Transcription Copyright 2003 eMediaMillWorks, Inc. (f/k/a Federal Document Clearing House, Inc.), which takes sole responsibility for the accuracy of the transcription. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material except for the user's personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon Fox News Network, Inc.'s and eMediaMillWorks, Inc.'s copyrights or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,94748,00.html

"COLMES: But if the family, like the parents, are willing to support her, are willing to take care of her, and you never know what can happen, stranger things have happened, why not err on that side, the side of life over death?

FELOS: Because we have a right to refuse medical treatment. Just because there's a treatment out there that can be applied to us, it doesn't mean we have to have it.
"

[Q Classic]

jeb bush has ordered the tubes back in.

[TheStinger]

What has Jeb Bush got to do with this. Oh I know he is an opportunistic politician playing to his religious right constituency.

[Q Classic]

i still don't understand why mike schiavo hasn't divorced her if he wants to move on. let the family take care of her if they want to.

[Q Classic]

What has Jeb Bush got to do with this. Oh I know he is an opportunistic politician playing to his religious right constituency.

and name one politician who isn't an opportunistic fckwit bastard who panders to his/her constituency.

[Kropotkin]

I sure do have my opinion but I'm keeping it for myself. It's not any elses issue what the parents or husband decides. All those people that turn up at things like this is just making it into a charade.

[Q Classic]

nah, it's so they can feel self-rightous, convinced that they're doing the right thing, and then they can go back and talk to like-minded people about how the liberal-owned media has perverted the government which is now trying to cheapen and destroy the american way of life, which includes denying some rights to others because they're not morally correct.

[TheStinger]

This is surley a matter for the courts, who have made a decison, JW doesn't like it, well last time I checked that was tough or because he 's a Bush can he ignore them.

[Q Classic]

the executive branch has ignored the judicial branch in the past.

andrew jackson, who kicked the cherokee out of ga, told the courts to enforce their decree that he shouldn't kick 'em out.

of course, since it's the judicial branch, they have no enforcement arm..

[- Groucho -]

Jeb Bush's actions are the worst kind of short-sighted political opportunism. Both sides have had a chance to plead their case in court and the courts have agreed with the side that says she told them she didn't want to be kept artificially alive. The executive should be enforcing that decision, not undermining it. By pandering to his constituents, Bush is spitting on the whole idea of having courts and the whole idea of the separation of powers. If the executive branch doesn't abide by the judiciaries' decision, they further degrade the respect the public has for the judiciary. Just like the talk-show hosts who constantly chip away at the judiciary by making shots at their integrity in a biased environment. The more we hold the judiciary up to slanted partisan ridicule and the less respect the executive branch gives them, the more we slip away from the rule of law and into the rule of pure power politics. China is in the grips of a pure-power system where the judiciary often walks in fear of the local administrators. Anyone want to trade our system for theirs?

A political tragedy as icing on the cake of a personal tragedy.

[Q Classic]

i personally don't have too much of an interest outside of it's better to keep her alive; if they do decide to let her die, however, i hope that this time they'll choose something that's quicker and far more painless.

[SpencerH]

It never fails to amaze me how people who clearly dont bother to read (or even listen to) the news can spout political nonsense of one flavour or another.

[Shi Huangdi]

Jeb Bush. Thanks for stepping in to prevent a slow death of starvation.

[Kropotkin]

With the risk of being one of those that Spencer points out in his post, but isn't the reason that she would be killed by stravation that any other, and less painful way, way would be considered murder?

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Dissident
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/15/coma.woman/index.html

Well the husband say the woman told him before she was injured that she wouldn't want to be a burden, and wouldn't want to be kept alive.

But her parents want her to be kept alive.

Her feeding tube has been removed.

She will die in a couple of weeks if she doesn't get food.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I suppore euthanasia, but looking at the video of her makes me think it shouldn't be used in her case.

If I were in her position I would want the feeding tubes removed. I voted that she should live because we have no way of knowing if the husban is telling the truth, that she did indeed tell him that. Since she has no living will and all we have is the husban's word, who has since had one child and one on the way with anther woman they should error on the side of caution and let the woman live.

[David Floyd]

I think there's a simple solution. If the parents want to keep her alive-but-dead, then the hospital can bill them. I don't see why the husband should be forced to pay to keep her alive, against both of their wills.

[SpencerH]

Krop

She's not being killed per se. The husband is trying to allow her to die by preventing her from being given food and water. We have no legal euthanasia here so there is no other way to do it (it would be murder) and since she's not on any mechanical life support there is no quick 'switch' to simply turn off.

Governer Bush (although he obviously agrees with the action) merely signed legislation that had been passed by the Florida house and senate by overwhelming majorities. In no way did he act unilaterally. In fact, he previously said he wouldnt interfere in such a manner.

[Proteus_MST]

It´s difficult.

Ater all we´ve got just tjhe testimony of her husband that she wanted to die under these circumstances.
Would be much easier, if one could talk to her and ask herr if she realy wants to die (which of course isn´t possible in the Condition she is in [and it´s doubtful, that she will be in the condition, if she for some reason awakens ]).

Aftr all I support the right of people to choose their own death, but probably it may be wrong to let her starve to death, as perhaps her last minutes and hours (despite her being in Coma) might be more cruelsme than they would be if someone just injected a poison (or a combination of poisons) into her.

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by SpencerH
She's not being killed per se.

Well, yes I know. I had "." around the word killed from the beginning but they got lost when I changed the text (bad english more than usual, it was).

[Ben Kenobi]

She's not being killed per se. The husband is trying to allow her to die by preventing her from being given food and water. We have no legal euthanasia here so there is no other way to do it (it would be murder) and since she's not on any mechanical life support there is no quick 'switch' to simply turn off.

So if I kept my child at home and left her without food and water, would I be fine?

I'm very pleased to see Jeb intervene to protect the life of Terri Schiavo.

And one cannot say that she is dead unless one presupposes a quality of life ethic where some lives are not worth living. One can only be determined to be dead if one's body stops functioning or one experiences brain death, neither of which apply to Terri Schiavo.

[Ben Kenobi]

YAY, have the sickness ruin both lives instead of one. Great idea !

And I think it was very noble of him not to file for divorce. It shows he still loves her, as he's still having the legal responsibility for her. Many people would have simply dropped the marriage and forgotten the whole deal

Well, a large fund attracts many managers.

For one who really believes in sticking by one's wife, they would not see this as 'ruining' their life, but rather as a way of expressing their love for their wife. It would be a way to share the limited time that they have together.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

So if I kept my child at home and left her without food and water, would I be fine?

I'm not sure if you'd be fine, but I stand corrected. She was being killed (if not actively).

I'm very pleased to see Jeb intervene to protect the life of Terri Schiavo.

'Jeb' did not intervene. The governer signed legislation passed by the senate and house. If he had intervened, it would have been wrong and possibly illegal.

And one cannot say that she is dead unless one presupposes a quality of life ethic where some lives are not worth living. One can only be determined to be dead if one's body stops functioning or one experiences brain death, neither of which apply to Terri Schiavo.

Perhaps this is in reference to another post. I never said she was dead, nor do I disagree with the results of the new legislation.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I'm very pleased to see Jeb intervene to protect the life of Terri Schiavo.

Same here. To starve her is really cruel, since it is not possible to assess whether she feels hunger and pain or not.

It would be much better if her ability to feel could be measured (electric activity in the brain?), and if there could be a clear case whether she should die or not. If yes, then she must be killed with a swift move, rather than by a long starvation