Super Deity?

April 9, 2001, 06:34

Once when I browsing the old threads I stumbled across to some screenshots where the screen was full of those red barbs. Someone had tweaked the program (?) to make 'raging hordes'-setting even worse.

I was thinking if it would be possible to do the same to the difficulty setting as well. 'Super deity' would mean that the first citizen is a red one

, and those AI food/production boxes would be even smaller. At king level AI's boxes are same as human, in emperor they are 2 colums narrower and in deity 4 colums. I presume they would be bigger in easier level though I haven't tested.

My assumption is that all this would be dependent of one single variable from which the program derives all the effects I described.

If the 'Super deity' would be possible to implement it would give us deity-winners a new challenge! Wouldn't that be great?

Smash · April 9, 2001, 15:55

its an easy change to do.In rules.txt you change "7- City size for first unhappiness at Chieftain level" to 6.It doesn't work very well though as it effects the ai even more than the human.

Elvi' like in an exceeded the riot factor ics game.Its slower to get going.Gardens becomes really,really strong.Too strong

Father Beast · April 10, 2001, 00:34

Um, Sorry for asking the obvious, but if your first citizen is red, how do you build anything at all? I don't think turning your only citizen to an elvis would do it. Or would it?
I guess you would have to knock over huts until you get a military unit before building your first city.

I remember talk about doing this with the first civ, when people talked about a difficulty level 3 harder than emperor. there was this bug at that level which allowed AI civs to grow without limit. the guy telling the story says he bought a city from the chinese with a population over 100. Starvation followed of course....

Back to the topic, Civ1 had the difficulty level as a digit in the savegame file. It only went 1-6, so you could put a 7, 8, or 9 without difficulty. I don't know how civ2 does it.
Maybe Julius brendaiza knows?

April 10, 2001, 15:19

Smash, thanks for your hint. But as you stated changing riot factor in 'rules.txt' affects the AI as well.. and that's bad. It would only help the human player who surely will rush for HG leaving the AI in trouble with unhappiness.

What would really make deity even harder 'super deity' would be shrinking those AI's food & production boxed letting them grow / build stuff much quicker. I'm still hoping that someone familiar with tampering the program code would find a way.. (Julius where are you?)

Scouse Gits · April 10, 2001, 19:15

It would help if all the AI civs started with two settlers. If you open up the game with the Cheat Menu at 4000BC you will see some only begin with one!
--------
SG(2)

War4ever · April 10, 2001, 20:04

actually giving the ai about 5 settlers would be better...... damm ai uses the second one to irrigate amongst other useless things..... it can't even coordinate roads and irrigation together unless by mistake...

Save as a scenario each civ gets 5 settlers..... you get one! i am not sure if that would be enough though..... as you would likely get tribes and nomads from your early huts

SCDARS · April 24, 2001, 18:30

I think you can "add difficulty levels" by adding lines with Names like "deity +1", "deity +2" (or what else you want) etc. in the respective part of game.txt... (the discovery of "Barbarian wrath" was likewise)
If so, then you can select this new levels on startup. However, It can't tell you whether it makes sense to play on those levels, because the game seems to have problems when dealing with those black "double unhappy" people...

Scouse Gits · April 25, 2001, 05:02

quote:

Originally posted by SCDARS on 04-24-2001 06:30 PM
(the discovery of "Barbarian wrath" was likewise)

Pray tell us more ...

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

April 25, 2001, 08:43

Must try that Deity +1 trick. Maybe adding those five settlers to each of AI as well.

My point is: even deity is ridiculously too easy if Samson can win the game with ONE city size ONE - and still lands on AC at 1890AD!!!!!!

kcbob · April 25, 2001, 10:31

quote:

Originally posted by Father Beast on 04-09-2001 12:34 PM
Um, Sorry for asking the obvious, but if your first citizen is red, how do you build anything at all? I don't think turning your only citizen to an elvis would do it. Or would it?

When you get up in cities in ICS, this happens all the time in a new city. Even if you change your citizen to an Elvis, you still get the shield production from the city itself. One shield, 10 turns, a warrior is born and voila... peace and tranquility.

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Frodo lives!

Scouse Gits · April 25, 2001, 10:36

Well what do you know !

I have made the following changes (marked in red) to the Game.txt file ...

quote:

Quoted from the "game.txt" file
@DIFFICULTY
@width=320
@title=Select Difficulty Level
@options
Chieftain (easiest)
Warlord
Prince
King
Emperor
Deity (toughest)
God Awful

@BARBARITY
@width=320
@title=Select Level Of Barbarian Activity
@button=Random
@default=2
@options
Villages Only
Roving Bands
Restless Tribes
Raging Hordes
Barbarian Wrath

using WordPad ...
and lo and behold the options came up when I opened a new game -- having selected both, I am unable to say whether or not the Barbarian Wrath had any effect, but Carthage a size 1 city (the size 1 city) went into unrest with a red face on the third turn!

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

Julius Brenzaida · April 25, 2001, 11:52

Can that really work ??? And can it be so simple ?
Another amazing (re)discovery.

More testing required but this game hasn't stopped surprising us yet.

Marko Polo I would like to see someone realize the OCC size 1 challenge at deity in a random gigampap with MGE. Tougher to get tribute and very tough to trade with other civs.

And with this new level ...

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

kcbob · April 25, 2001, 13:18

No puns intended but good Lord, what hath God wrought?!?!

Now the challenge would appear to be "How high a setting can you beat?"
Naming the levels might be interesting, too.

.
.
Deity
God Awful
S&M
Insane
Lost Cause

.
.
Raging Hordes
Barbarian Wrath
Sands of the Sea

Well, I guess I'll have to try this, too. Not that I was all that good at Deity.

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Frodo lives!

April 25, 2001, 16:59

Incredible discovery, SG[1]! Thanks for testing. When I have the time, I simply must have a go with "God awful" and "Barbarian wrath".

Btw, did you check how small were the AI production / food boxes (using cheat mode)? Can't wait to find that out!

Father Beast · April 26, 2001, 09:56

Instead of "God Awful", shouldn't that be "God Hates You"?

I don't play much on deity, but I'm going to try that barbarian thing and see if it makes any difference.

BTW, what do these settings do to your score?

Mr Chafe · April 26, 2001, 15:07

That can't really work surely? It sounds too easy, surely you would have to mess round more with the games coding?

April 28, 2001, 14:02

quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-25-2001 10:36 AM
Well what do you know !

I have made the following changes (marked in red) to the Game.txt file ...

@DIFFICULTY
@width=320
@title=Select Difficulty Level
@options
Chieftain (easiest)
Warlord
Prince
King
Emperor
Deity (toughest)
God Awful

@BARBARITY
@width=320
@title=Select Level Of Barbarian Activity
@button=Random
@default=2
@options
Villages Only
Roving Bands
Restless Tribes
Raging Hordes
Barbarian Wrath

using WordPad ...
and lo and behold the options came up when I opened a new game -- having selected both, I am unable to say whether or not the Barbarian Wrath had any effect, but Carthage a size 1 city (the size 1 city) went into unrest with a red face on the third turn!

I went ahead and added five more lines under "Deity (toughest)". Here are the effects:

Deity1: happiness like SG[1] stated. AI's food box was 7 lines and shield box had 7 columns

Deity2: happiness is worse as the only citizen turns into a black face on the third turn. AI's food box is 6 lines, shield box 6 colums.

Deity3: Food box 5 lines, shield box 5 colums
Deity4: Food box 4 lines, shield box 4 colums
Deity5: Food box 3 lines, shield box 3 colums

At deity6 a strange thing happened. The quillotine blade dropped and "you have conquered the entire world" immediately at 4000BC with a score like 2340.

Conclusion: the harder the difficulty, the quicker the AI cities grow due to smaller food box (at deity5 it's only 2 * 3 = 6). Also AI production is overwhelmining quick. I tried a game where I never founded a city and just kept hitting 'enter' until 1900AD. The map is amazing: there were starving AI cities size 100, cities had all improvements possible and units.. the whole map is full of them. I'd post a nice screen shot if I could

There is one drawback, though. Every two turn comes an error msg with buttons "close" and "ignore". With 'ignore' the game continues. I'm not sure if this appear on lower levels.

So folks, we now have 5 more difficulty levels for those who think that deity is a piece of cake..

Julius Brenzaida · April 28, 2001, 15:04

Marko,

I've tried three levels above deity and my conclusions are same as yours.
Now I'm going to look at deity 5 and see it works with my computer and MGE.
As for the barbarians, you can only add one level, before the game crashes. But there are definitely many of them !

In any case, the game crashes when you should reach the high score table after retiring, but who cares ?
4 or 5 new levels for civ, that's really great.

Who has discovered that. It must be added in my second version of my no-limits add-on, and the guy sure deserves credit !

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

Julius Brenzaida · April 28, 2001, 16:21

Well,

Let us not be too enthusiastics !
I can't save or load a game with a super deity level.
I think it has something to do with the fact that the difficulty level appears in a box.
Has anybody any idea on how to solve that ???

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

Julius Brenzaida · April 28, 2001, 16:37

Waov !

I've toyed with other things in the .txt and here's a nice little discovery. You change the number of civ2. Not up, sorry everybody but down.
Simply write * 2 civs and * 1 civ and it works. Great isn't it. You can even play alone.
Edit : all my tests have been with MGE. During the summer holidays I promise to look at this discoveries more thoroughly to prepare a second no-limits add-on.
Any other testers welcome !

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

April 28, 2001, 17:17

Julius, I have got 2.42 and save/load works. Also retiring works and the game ends normally. Maybe it's just MGE..

April 28, 2001, 17:54

I retired from a game where I had 'Barbarian wrath' selected. I gave me 75 bonus points to the score.

Chris1111 · April 28, 2001, 18:28

quote:

Originally posted by Marko Polo on 04-28-2001 05:54 PM
I retired from a game where I had 'Barbarian wrath' selected. I gave me 75 bonus points to the score.

What about the other scoring? Have you noticed an increased percentage at all? I think on emperor 10pts= 1% score and its slightly less pts on diety(this is what Im referring to)

I did barb wrath btw and the barbarians spawned and managed to destroy 3 AI capitals! Dont know if they are stronger or it was just a coincidence.

*edits*- Diety+5 game 1600AD AI Russians have 172 rifleman and 192 fanatics 13000gold and only 28 settlers and 11 caravan and they are at war with everyone. The passing on turns is brutal.

[This message has been edited by Chris1111 (edited April 28, 2001).]

Father Beast · April 30, 2001, 04:41

I had to try this. I started a game on +1, and on +2. I noticed that when I load a saved game on +!, it says "difficulty level Worshipful", and on +2, it says "difficulty level Enthusiastic". these are other civ's attitudes towards you, so it's obviously borrowing. maybe I should look and see where it gets them and and my own "God Hates You" and "Lost Cause"

I thought I got a lot of throne room stuff on +1, but on +2, I got a throne room improvement EVERY TURN once I built a city. the thing was maxed out by 2000 B.C.
Another thing is that martial law doesn't seem to work so well. Even with 3 units in a city, I couldn't turn a black face content. he stays red. things get a lot easier once you can build a temple...

I've played out most of a game on +2, and here are some of the highlights.

1200 BC Babylonians build pyramids
475 BC Celts start Xin Yu's War Academy, finish it by 50 BC
250 BC 1 top 5 city size 12, rest size 8
100 AD babyonians discover philosophy.
1000 AD My little civ has learned 6 (count them, 6!) techs, and is finally researching monarchy
1420 I saw an Ironclad off the coast
1570 I finally discover trade
1864 Babylonians discover space flight
1900 Babylonians out of techs to research.

I retired in 1957 with a score of 156, civ rating of 23%. listed higher than a game wher my score was 278, civ rating of 17%. Go figure.

Julius Brenzaida · April 30, 2001, 04:53

I've tried with FW and it works fine. You can load and save games and go the hall of fame. But not in MGE or ToT. Go figure.
There is definitely 5 more level of difficulty after Deity !!!
Isn't that great ?
For the barbarians, I'm not sure of how it works. But there is at least one more level that works fine.
This summer, I will try to hexedit the civ2.exe to make it work with MGE.
Imagine a deity+5 on a gigamap, with barbarians everywhere. A real tough challenge !

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

Scouse Gits · April 30, 2001, 06:29

Julius, your middle name isn't 'von Masoch' by any chance is it?

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library has been built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

Scouse Gits · April 30, 2001, 06:32

Oh, and Julius, if you are getting out your hex editor again - is there any chance of removiing the 'no more than 250' restriction on the side length of giga-maps - I would like to try out a 'Giga Spindle World'

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library has been built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

Father Beast · April 30, 2001, 14:46

I found it!

at the bottom of the Rules.txt, there's a @difficulty just before the @attitude section. I added my own levels "God Hates You" and "Lost Cause". It comes up like that in the load game screen. that way you don't get that "difficulty level Worshipful" message.

I haven't had any crashes with the 2 higher difficulty levels, but I do with the "Sands Of The Sea" barbarian setting. not a crash, exactly, just the close/ignore option. I need to get back to my God Hates you/Sands Of the Sea game and see if I see any barb activity.
I'm playing with 2.78, BTW

Julius Brenzaida · April 30, 2001, 16:02

quote:

Originally posted by Father Beast on 04-30-2001 02:46 PM
I found it!
at the bottom of the Rules.txt, there's a @difficulty just before the @attitude section. I added my own levels "God Hates You" and "Lost Cause". It comes up like that in the load game screen

Sorry FB, but I'd found it yesterday : it doesn't work that well, at least for me. Now, no AI will ever "worship" you, they'll just "god hates you". It's trading a little problem for another !

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

Julius Brenzaida · April 30, 2001, 16:04

quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-30-2001 06:32 AM
Oh, and Julius, if you are getting out your hex editor again - is there any chance of removiing the 'no more than 250' restriction on the side length of giga-maps - I would like to try out a 'Giga Spindle World'

It shouldn't be too difficult. Just needs some time ! This summer it shall be done.

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe