HIVE diplomatic exchanges

[Maniac]

I have sent a similar message to Rokossovky.

[Maniac]

Asking if Jamski was now more able to respond:

We have just made contact with the Data Angels. Expect an election pretty soon.

I'll check up on PEACE as soon as I have a moment, ok?

-Jam

[Maniac]

Message from Kody, a non-Hive member , in the Hive-CyCon forum:

Sorry probably contact Jamski he's one of the few remaining members left.

By the way the university just broke the terms of their treaty with the Hive. I'm not sure what the hive wants to do. However, I don't think the university is particularly trust worthy.

The terms of our treaty was to withdraw their scout from our continent. They put their scout back onto the transport and then moved the scout 2 squares to the west and landed the scout again.

Bastards.

Feel free to talk to the university, doubtful the hive will get any trading done with them.

As Second Function and this Acting EAF I have asked Tassadar to post this message in the Hive forum? Does it sound ok?

Hi Comrade Tassadar,

Could you please post the following message in the Hive forum?

***

Dear members of the Human Hive,

Lately the communications between our two factions have been rather chaotic, to say the least. I have been sending messages to several Hive members, but only with irregular response, and not knowing if the responses were official. Therefore I have asked Assistant-God Comrade Tassadar to present this open letter to the Hive.

The messages I sent in the near past were intended to pick up where we left off with the different negotiations on planetary governor elections, pact brotherhood, commlinks, tech trading, infiltration trading etc... From Jamski I learned that you have somehow acquired the Data Angel frequency and that you will be able to call planetary elections yourself. From Kody I learned that PUT has broken your treaty, so I assume your deal to trade EcoEng failed.

That still leaves quite a few open threads. IIRC we offered to vote for you on planetary governor elections. You offered to give us infiltrator information for PUT and PEACE. We also talked about signing a (perma)pact of brotherhood. Perhaps there is also a possibility of exchanging technology if you're interested. If I may ask, what is the current state of discussion on these subjects within the Hive forum, or when could agreed upon arrangements be executed?

Friendly greetings,

Mani Alpha-3
Second Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

[Maniac]

No reactions anymore from the Hive... Should I send them a reminder?

Btw, I can't access the Hive-CyCon forum anymore; the page doesn't load. Does anyone else have this problem?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Maniac
No reactions anymore from the Hive... Should I send them a reminder?

Btw, I can't access the Hive-CyCon forum anymore; the page doesn't load. Does anyone else have this problem?

I just got in fine, Maniac. But there is nothing too recent in there either.

[laurentius]

Anyone knows whats this coup in the Hive Hong Hu's talking about?

[Maniac]

Because no one was active anymore in the Hive, I think Jamski tried to overthrow Voltaire as Chairman, probably by a poll hoping to get 50% of the votes. AFAIK he failed and is on trial now.

Anyway, I can access the CyCon-Hive forum again and noticed this message from HongHu:

Currently the Hive is in a state of after-coup chaos. The leadership has been either left, missing, busy or on trial. Tass had faithfully conveyed your message to the Hive. However, no discussion has been incurred yet. Currently I'm working on summarizing the situation in game for other Hivers, hoping this will bring people back into the game. I'm hoping that we will start some real game related discussions before the turn is in our hands. I will keep you informed of any new developments.

Should I respond something like

We understand you have an unstabile political situation which delays your foreign negotiations. However please bear in mind that the longer you wait with giving us infiltrator information, the less valuable it becomes, and the less willing (if still at all willing - there are people saying infiltrator<->votes has become an uneven deal) we are to accept infiltrator data as compensation for us voting for you for planetary governor. After all we will be able to infiltrate the PUT and PEACE ourselves in a few years, and could in fact have already done so if we had not decided to focus on other priorities because you promised us you would give us infiltrator data. :-(

or is it too revealing (telling we can infiltrate ourselves) or unfriendly?

[laurentius]

Maniac that message from Hong Hu was the reason I asked about it. Thanks for the info, I tried to squeeze comments about it from tassadar earlier today, but he refused to comment. He said tho that the coup has been put down now, and Voltaire is in charge so I dont know if the situation is so unstabile anymore...

The message above is quite straight-forward and maybe a little bit...harsh/rude. I dont know, depends. Maybe a little more polite would be better

[Maniac]

Originally posted by laurentius
The message above is quite straight-forward and maybe a little bit...harsh/rude. I dont know, depends. Maybe a little more polite would be better

I know. Though I can't think right now of a polite enough message that will still give them the picture that we would like to have that infiltrator data asap. My polite and informative inquiries whether they have read my PMs, what the current state of affairs is at the momeny etc, haven't brought any progress in our desired deal up until now.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Maniac
We understand you have an unstable political situation which delays your foreign negotiations. However we must also ask that you put an urgent emphasis on consideration of the idea of allowing us infiltrator data in return for our guaranteed votes for you as Planetary Governor. We would very much like to sort out this matter as soon as possible so we can both move on with our cooperation. I hope you understand that we must have a definite decision to keep alive the fantastic cooperation between our teams enjoyed thus far. Additionally, we expect that making such an agreement would lead to increased activity for BOTH our factions - such a thing can only be of advantage to us both.

How about something more like this? Please feel free to alter any of the above as you see fit - I don't think we should mention being able to infiltrate for ourselves at all, just pressure them a little as allies to keep our cooperative efforts moving.

[laurentius]

Fantastic cooperation

Yeah I think its better now, give it a go

[MrWhereItsAt]

My post needs a little rephrasing, but it's mostly as I intended it...

[Impaler[WrG]]

Replace Coperation with Potential as we have not actualy done much with them yet. I do feel though that the vote for Inviltrator info is a much weaker deal then it used to be. We should step up out own infiltration efforts on PEACE and try to remain self sufficient as all this stuff makes the Hive highly unpredictable in my view, if it wasn't for their considerable in-game power I wouldn't support going out on a limb like this.

[Maniac]

I'll answer MWIA here:

So let me get this straight - we want to strike a deal with the Hive where we will vote for them as Planetary Governor, and then I suppose they are near certain to get in (assuming their pop is typically large). In return they will then give us PEACE infiltrator info. All correct?

And if we got this decision, we would then be in a position to call the Council, or be in a position to give someone else the last contact(s) they need to call the Council - correct?

Correct. Hive also offered PUT infiltration info though. But I agree with what Impaler says: this deal is not as good as it used to be. Should we still continue with it? Or ask not just PEACE and PUT infiltration, but all infiltration of any faction we ask about? After all that's what they would be getting if we voted on them. We could also make a smaller deal and in return for a sum of credits only ask the F4 garrison screen and perhaps also the F7 military screen. Then we could see the defensive strength of our first target Alexandria, and the amount of probes they have, which is really all the information we need before we start our invasion and infiltrate PEACE ourselves.

[Phenix]

I agree with you Maniac. We definetly need infiltration ourselves in the near future, so we don't really need to know everything.
A small sum of EC's (or maybe some tech???- probably not ) would be much better...

[Impaler[WrG]]

I am requesting permission to send semi-official PM's to Hive members conserning these matters.

First off I sugjest that we start using Triplicate comunications protocal. Any Diplomatic Comunications with other factions should be sent to that factions Leader, second in Comand and Ambasidor. This will ashure that even if someone is asleep at the wheel that the comunication will go through. We should request that other do the same with their comunications with us.

With the Hive the Apropriate people would be Voltaire and Octavian_X I belive. But I am not shure if they have a second in comand yet (is it Jamski?)so HongHu would be the logical third choice due too activity level and previous contacts with us.


Greatings BLANK, I have directed this PM to you and BLANK BLANK as in acordance with our new Triplicate comunication Proticals which call for all comunications to be sent to the top 3 members of a faction, we ask you do the same and send all response oficial or non-Official to Manic, Drouge and Impaler[wrG]. We hope this will get comunications rolling again. If and when you would like to designate different people as your official contact please tell us so and I will redirect comunications.


Let me cut to the chase, we over at Cycon are eager for more inteligence on PEACE. Drouge has already informed us that you state they are generaly undefended but thats about as much detail as we have. If you could provide us with an itemized list of each Base with details like what the defending units are, what the production is, facilites, population and Resorce income and ofcorse an itemized list of their unit builds, Lab status and Energy Banks that would be great too (were cyborgs we feed on Data!) This would be most benifitial too us and we would be extreamly greatfull. Obviously the longer this information is delayed in reaching us the less valuable it becomes.

Your offer of PUT information is apealing too us also and wish to know if this is seen as an additional exchange or is it include in exchange for our vote support? Lastly we suspect that you have or will soon be researching Ecolocial Enginering, we would be most interested in Aquiring this tec and are wondering what we could offer you in exchange for it?

[Maniac]

Since some cyborgs apparently didn't know the Hive-CyCon forum to which there is a link in the first post of this thread, I'll copy HongHu's message here:

Sorry that I have been swampt by the Hive internal matters and wasn't able to visit the Embassy for a while. Anyway here's a short update on what happened and is heppening within the Hive.

Following the early retirement of Comrade Kody and leave of absence of myself the Hive had entered a period of hibernation when nobody moved or talked. At the point of risk that we will miss a crucial turn Jamski planned a coup to overthrow the inactive Chairman. He also submited a badly done turn while not realizing that Comrade Kody had already finished the turn. You will read more information from the upcoming Pravda which will feature the Jamski trial and articles about people starving and war, etc.

The coup and failed turn senerio had caused great chaos inside the Hive. The Chairman had announced the dissolvement of the government and the start of a restructure. Many people go out to the street shouting and cheering. Comrades start to come back to the office and start to work for the party and people.

Currently the restructuring is not completed yet. The future Hive goverment is planned to consist four department:
Comrade dacole will lead the Department of Homeland Central Planning;
Comrade Octavian X will lead the Commission of Foreign Relations;
Marshal Rokossovky has come back to the Hive and will lead the Central Military Committee ;
We are still looking for a suitable candidate who could lead the Department of Science and Social Engineering.

Within the CFR, individual Ambassadors will be assiged to each faction. I have expressed my interest of continuing to work with my dearest CC friends.

Regarding previous CC message to the Hive, I will try to secure an official reply from the Hive government later. However I can personally assure you that the Hive will continue to honor all prior agreements with the CC including the agreement on governor election and infitration information. (We are not planning to call for an election in the upcoming couple turns although it may be called by the AIs). Also, I will try to push discussions about what type of prototyped units would Hive like to trade with you. We are close to getting Eco Eng ourselves even if we are not going to be able to finish trade with the university. Therefore I foresee some trades should be possible between us. Last, I would like to inqury when the CyCon decides to enter the pact with the Hive.

I may not be seen here very frequently since currently I am trying to fill in each and every empty space that are left by unworking officials and help with all the new departments. But I will try my best to check here daily so I could convey any message from the CyCons to the Hive.

Ambassador HongHu

Impaler, please go ahead with PMing the Hive. HongHu should indeed be the third person as she is the CyCon Ambassador.

As for asking the Hive the infiltrator information, as I proposed ot you in the chat, how about we only ask for the F4 Production and Garrison screens, and a full F7 Military Nexus screen in exchange for energy credits or something else if they wish?

Also we might want to ask for a precise year they expect to get EcoEng. If it's way too far off, we might want to trade with PUT after all.

[Impaler[WrG]]

This PM has been sent to HongHu, Octavian_X and Voltaire, I included some things Manic mentioned and tried not to reveal too much.


Greatings Honored Hivarian Diplomat, I bring a Comunicay from the Cybernetic Conciounus:

Cycon is interested in aquiring the F4 and F7 screens of PEACE. We are prepared to offer a sum of Energy Credits as we know you are currently uninterested in tecnologies. It should be know that this information like all information becomes inheriently less valuable the longer it is delayed in reaching us and it is vitavl to restart diplomatic relations and conduct the desired exchange whial it reamains mutualy benifitial.

Conserning PUT. They have asked us for Aplied Physics which they lack. We are hoping that we can get ecological Enginering from them in exchange, though this seems unlikly at best. We would much rather obtain Ecological Enginering from a trusted faction like the Hive then from a potentialy advasary, and we worry that PUT might start reaserching Military tecnologies once they have the Pre-Reqs. If you know what PUT is currently researching this could help us to perhaps mutualy exploit the situation somehow. Though we thank you for the offer PUT information is not currently required by our networks, though it might be desirble to aquire it at some later date. We were curious if the offer was tied into Votes or not and how you view the Vote issue.

Pacting as you know is not possible in the imediate future but we are hopefull it will be conducted as the earliest Possible convenience.

Copies of this Comunicay have been sent to HongHu, Octavian_X and Voltaire as we will try to do from now on to enshure high bandwith comunications are maintained. We ask that you triplicate your PM responses and direct copies to Manic, Drouge and Impaler[WrG].

[MrWhereItsAt]

Good to see that things may be moving again there.

Keep an eye out for Enigma_Nova, he may be moving and shaking the idlers in the Hive.

[Impaler[WrG]]

This message was Sent to Hive shortly after the new orders were prepared based on the information the Hive gave. I think we should be generous say around 40-50 credists or that Unit they want. It will be a bit before we get that ready though.



The Cybernetic Conciousness expresses its highest level of Gratitude for the Hives cooperation. We have rapidly assimilated the data you provided and will begin discussing our dept to your, it is our current intention to pay with Energy Credits, though as far as my data banks say this sum has not yet been desided. Rest assured it will be generous. A formula should be negotiated for a lum-sum or yearly instalment pakage that will compensate the Hive for its invaluable assistance.

[Drogue]

Ok, HongHu has contacted me, and said that they are about to research Eco Eng, but if we can trade it before then, they will give us Gene Splicing, and then they can switch to Env Eco. Does that sound sensible? If we get the PUT deal through ASAP, then we can trade with the Hive. Any thoughts. Of course this is all tentative diplomacy, just asking what we can trade.

She also asked about the tech for unit offered earlier. Have we any spare production, for a cruiser of some form, to give to the Hive, in return for a tech? I said I doubt we had the spare production, but that we'd discuss it.

Any thoughts? Anything that anyone would liked slipped into a conversation as a tentative thought.

[Maniac]

If anyone sees a Hive member within the next 24 hours, please contact them, and ask them about:

• the PEACE F4 garrison screens, more specifically the location of their 2 Party Poopers
• the other half of the PEACE F7 Military Nexus
• whether or not PEACE has infiltrated us. Since they're pacted with PEACE, the Hive can know this by using the trick I explained in the EAF thread, checking out our faction profile from the perspective of PEACE.

Perhaps one of you could PM or post in the VoyForum these requests to the Hive. Unfortunately it's already too late here for me to do it and I won't be online the next 18 hours or so to do it myself.

[Drogue]

Have spoken with HongHu. Have mentioned the missing F7 screen and asked about the information.

I have said what they would like in return. They said before their main thing was trust. Therefore I said if we say we will Pact by 2152 (when the real war will have got going, and surprise is lost) would that be enough. I haven't agreed to it, but I think it's a good idea. What do others think? Is that a sensible arrangement. IIRC, we are planning to pact in 2152, when the war gets going, and it will be going in 2150 now.

Also I have spoken about the joined PUT/Hive deal. We need to pre-accept it by 2150, which means PUT need to offer in 2149, for us to counter offer and accept and them to accept in 2150.

[MrWhereItsAt]

If the war has started by then I see no reason not to Pact.

BTW why does the Hive want such a pact? Is it just for the intel/peace of mind, or the tiny bit of extra commerce, or is there another great reason why they would consider pacting a benefit to them?

[Drogue]

MWIA: Since they start, they have seen us as natural allies, both in RP and in-game. They have a long term pact with the Drones, but they want a triumverate victory with us and the Drones. Also the commerce and peace of mind, but mostly a co-op victory.

There are many reasons why this is good, as debated earlier (will try and find thread).

They have offered also offered, as before, a tech for a cruiser, but HongHu says they will return the cruiser after one turn, once they can reverse engineer a cruiser themselves. They don't want the tech, to clog up tech rate, but this means we lose one turn for one unit, and not one unit, for a tech (Env Econ probably).

They have said if we need any help against PEACE (indirect) then to ask. Also, I have talked about the possibility of mutual defense with regards to PUT. Basically, if PUT attack us when we attack PEACE, they declare on PUT. They don't like PUT, and would mean we fight on much less of a 2 front war (also, might scare PUT into not attacking).

When we attack PEACE, I will send a PM to PUT, if the Hive agree, asking them ton stay neutral, and stating that the Hive will intervene if they do. We need to guard against a two front war. After taking out PEACE we guard the seas and help Hive troops over to PUT land, and they, with/without our help, take out PUT. Then we turn on AIs. That was the general plan, but has not been put to vote. What do others think?

[Drogue]

Obviously all is tentative, and I have stated that, since we have not agreed on this, but as EAF, it is my job to discuss deals, and bring them to you for discussion and ultimately, ratification. I made it clear I don't have authority to agree to mutual defense or Pacts, but that I am for it.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I have posted a tenative plan for tec exchange and Pacting with the Hive on the Cycon/Hive forum. The plan also involves trades with UNI (UNI wont be told of anything but its portion ofcorse). If it all comes off without a flaw then we will be very well off (2 tecs and Pact with Hive in 52), Hive will do well as well (1 extra tec then they otherwise would have but next tec after that slowed down a bit), Uni gets what ever package we negotiate with them.

HongHu is working on another proposal aparently of independent origin and hopefully we can work out some kind of master plan that gives us all what we want.

The proposal (also posted under UNI diplomacy) goes like this


Hive 49 - Lowers its tec acumulation enough to delay Eco Eng untill 2152
Uni 49 - Offers Cycon Eco Eng (unaccepted)
Cycon 49 - Counter offers Uni Aplied Physics, Drone Com and a sum of Energy Credits (this amount must be desided upon before we get to this point). We then accept this trade.
Hive 50 - dose NOT get Eco Eng as they otherwise would have
Uni 50 - Accepts our offer
Cycon 50 - Recive Eco Eng from Uni and send it to Hive Pre Accepted (showing trust)
Hive 51 - Recives Eco Eng and raises it reserach back to normal rates, Switches to a new reserach Goal and completes it next turn.
Hive 52 - Completes reserch in next tec (likly Environmental Economics) and sends it and a Pact offer pre accepted to us.
Cycon 52 - We accept Pact and tec.


I have told Hive its all just potential and nothing is official yet, I hope I am not usurping Drogues position here (I am supposed to be just internal Affairs after all, but theirs not much to do internaly right now). The games Diplomacy is getting so complex that its hard for 1 person to manage it (especialy on short notice) all so I hope he likes the help.

[Impaler[WrG]]

HongHu has sent this respones and modification of my plan, their are additional plans for future tecs too. All are ofcorse tenative. I see that HongHu is aware of our war plan acceleration, as far as I knew that was a secret, who leaked that? Overall I like these plans and think we should do the first and investigate the others. Possibility of getting Energy from the Hive sounds good too if the war with PEACE goes badly it can help us prepare a second wave quickly.



Based on the following information of facts:
1. Hive will complete Ecological Engineering in turn 2150
2. CyCon is planning going into war against PEACE in turn 2150
3. PUT is currently researching Environmental Economics and is expected to finish it soon
4. The game is now PEACE turn 2148, it will be followed by Drones 2149, before it is Hive’s 2149 turn, and followed by PUT 2149 turn and CC 2149 turn.

The Hive proposed the following trading / cooperations with the CyCons

1. Trade Ecological Engineering with Environmental Economics:

CyCon will try to obtain ecological engineering from the PUT. If confirmation that such a trade is secured reaches the Hive before the Hive 2149 turn, the Hive will lower its tech research rate so that it will not complete ecological engineering in turn 2150. Then in CyCon 2149 turn, CyCon perform the trade with PUT. In CC 2150 turn CC will complete the trade with PUT and give Eco Eng to the Hive preaccepted. In Hive 2151 turn, Hive will accept the trade, switch to Env Eco and finish it. In the same turn Hive will give Env Eco to CC pre-accepted.

2. Trade Gene Splicing with Secrete of Human Brain and Neural Grafting

The Hive realize that the CC is in need of Gene Splicing and do not have the ability of producing prototyped units for the Hive in the near future. Therefore the Hive bring you an alternative proposal for trading of Gene Splicing with Secrete of Human Brain and Neural Grafting. If CyCon could try to obtain SHB from the PUT (if it doesn’t have the tech already) the Hive will send CC Gene Splicing pre-accepted once the tech is available for trade. In the same turn CC will send SHB to Hive. CC will research Neural Grafting next and give it to Hive upon completion.

3. Upon a more definitive discloser of the CC’s war plan the Hive will deliver the PEACE infiltration information that are desired by CC in its entirety.

4. The Hive agrees if PUT declares war on CC it will declare war on PUT, with the understanding that this is more of a gesture than a real was since the Hive currently don't have the attacking technology and units to wage a real war. If the CC will provide information regarding what attacking tech and/or unit it could trade with the Hive, the Hive will be receptive to discussions regarding further cooperation.

5. If needed by the CC the Hive will donate some units or some energy credits to help CC with its war effort.


The Hive hopes this package demonstrates our intention of a deeper relationship and cooperation with the CyCons. We believe this proposal is mutually beneficial for both factions and hope that the CyCons will prove this at the earliest possible time. As it is now, time is of the essential. For the deal to go through and bring the anticipated results, decisions have to be made quick and details have to be conducted assiduously. If this cooperation goes through, we believe it will significantly increase the strength of both our factions.

[Impaler[WrG]]

HongHu also sent this

Feedback:

The first trade is almost exactly as what I proposed. My proposal require more assidulous work but will enable both of us getting the tech 1 turn early.

For the second part regarding prototype units, the Hive has changed its mind upon knowing your situation (production aimed war preparation). We now believe that it is more benieficial to us to get the NG instead so that we could persue Bioengineering and get clean formers (and perhaps another SP ). The Hive is still in the builder path so the cruiser and pods are actually not very much in need right now.

Soon we will have to discuss Secret Project exchanges, as our research rate incresses we will be in a better position to bargain over them. Its good to hear they dont need these right now. Likly they are not going to challege us for naval power. Also I do not belive that ANY human faction knows we have Impact weapons, that the Ace up our sleave vs PEACE. Likly we will need Missles for our next war and I hope to get the Citizens Defence Force by then too.

[Maniac]

Who told the Hive we were going to war in MY 2150?? Please be more careful about what you say in the future! Though certain Hive members are in favour of a close cooperation with the Consciousness, others are not. As is clear by for example the coup there are serious differences of opinion within the Hive, so we do not know where the loyalties of all Hive members lie. Therefore the Hive should still be treated as a foreign faction, and we shouldn't tell our deepest secrets to them just like that.