October 22, 2003, 13:43
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#61
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King
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All the Universities were I live have required courses that you have to take to get a degree. What are you talking about? The school you went to did not have any required courses??
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October 22, 2003, 14:18
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#62
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Deity
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I don't think it's possible to have everyone come out of 4 yrs of college without "glaring gaps" in their education.
I was into History, Political Science (heh), Civ and Beer. My girlfriend was into Math & Computers, with occasional forays into History, Civ and Beer.
Even if I had avoided Civ and Beer, I still think I'd be somewhat lacking in areas like Mathematics/Physics, Chemistry (I hate chem, for no apparent reason), etc. I don't really enjoy those topics. My gf's did well in things she wished to do well in, but I doubt that even she could have managed to be well-versed in all subjects in 4 years.
-Arrian
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October 22, 2003, 14:33
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#63
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Pekka
No doctor. Masters Degree, yes? We consider Bachelors Degree a shameful failure  .
Just kidding with the failure thing. Besides after that I'd be like almost maybe 3 years away from that doctor .
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didn't you just enroll? how the hell can you go straight to master's without having your batchelor's?
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October 22, 2003, 14:38
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#64
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Azazel, I'll be compliting my BC in.. 3 years at most. Yes I'm studying a lot. And after that some more courses and then I'll do my thesis, and this should be completed in 5 years tops. But I'm already chosen for MD program, so I don't have to worry about the little things.
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October 22, 2003, 14:57
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#65
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Settler
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I'm not sure what the topic is. If you have no required courses at all, what degree will you get?
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 22, 2003, 15:00
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#66
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Azazel
didn't you just enroll? how the hell can you go straight to master's without having your batchelor's?
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I believe Oxford/Cambridge gives its graduates a masters degree rather than a bachelors.
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October 22, 2003, 15:04
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#67
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
I'm not sure what the topic is. If you have no required courses at all, what degree will you get?
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This puzzled me, as well.
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October 22, 2003, 15:07
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#68
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Settler
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I assume some liberal arts bachelor, but isn't that college rather than uni? Always found that US system confusing.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 22, 2003, 15:08
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#69
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Yep. Batchelor's majors minors... 
We don't have majors and minors in my uni.
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October 22, 2003, 15:13
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#70
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Settler
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Well we have such combined studies in some areas. Mostly for academic training of teachers - which barely exists in the US, supposedly.
Is Israel's system more along the european university model?
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 22, 2003, 15:29
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#71
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Yes, Academic training of teachers, and Economics+management, and Chemistry+Material Engineering ( In such a case, the person gets two degrees. ), but those are very rigid, relatively. It's not that you can have a degree in Japanese History and Physics, as the american system would imply.
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October 22, 2003, 15:32
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#72
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OTF Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
I assume some liberal arts bachelor, but isn't that college rather than uni? Always found that US system confusing.
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you have been exposed to americans for a few years now (on apolyton if no where else)
you would think that you would have figured it out by now
Jon Miller
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October 22, 2003, 15:34
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#73
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Deity
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I always thought that a core curriculum was important, but maybe that's because that's what I went through for my BA. 4 semesters in English, 4 semesters in Religion, 4 in Philosophy, and 4 in math and sciences. You had at least some latitude on the actual courses, however. It didn't seem like too much of a hassle, even if some were slightly wasteful of my time.
There are some classes that I think need to be taught in order to live in the modern world, but perhaps they should be taught in high school. These are classes such as personal finance (beyond home economics that are taught in junior high school).
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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October 22, 2003, 15:35
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#74
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Deity
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What AS means, I think, is a set of courses that everyone would *have* to take, regardless of which undergraduate degree they were pursuing. So I, the History major and my girlfriend, the Math & CompSci double major, would both have to take "Ethics" and "People Skills" (to use Adam Smith's examples).
-Arrian
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grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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October 22, 2003, 15:36
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#75
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Settler
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Well our law study is about 85 % required courses in the frist 6 semesters (which would be about a bachelor), there's more leeway in the last 2 semesters (about 50-70 %). But that one would be highly "required" in the US too AFAIK; at least bar accreditation requires covering the key subjects IIRC.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 22, 2003, 15:37
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#76
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Deity
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Quote:
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These are classes such as personal finance (beyond home economics that are taught in junior high school).
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I couldn't agree more. My highschool, incidently, had gotten rid of Home Ec by the time I got there. What I know about managing my finances is what I picked up from my parents. That's fine and all, but considering the issues this country has with personal debt (it seems), I think teaching high school kids how to budget and the basics of savings & investment would be a good idea.
-Arrian
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grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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October 22, 2003, 15:39
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#77
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Emperor
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The Law degree is 8 simesters? damn.
I get my B.A. after 6. 
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October 22, 2003, 15:41
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#78
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Settler
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Jon Miller
you have been exposed to americans for a few years now (on apolyton if no where else)
you would think that you would have figured it out by now
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Poly! 
Well I happen to talk to Americans outside of poly, and even sometimes about tertiary education, but that is in part a source of confusion, as some seem to differentiate between college and uni, some use it synonymously. And from our point of view, it is difficult to understand the purpose and structure of "college" at all.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 22, 2003, 15:43
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#79
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Settler
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Azazel
The Law degree is 8 simesters? damn.
I get my B.A. after 6.
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Yeah, but that's a master degree. We'll start bachelors next year.
Until around 1980, there wasn't even a master's degree in law here, only a doctorate.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 22, 2003, 15:45
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#80
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OTF Moderator
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college and university are the same here
the only difference is that a university will also give a PHD (a college won't)
please ask me if you are still confused
Jon Miller
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October 22, 2003, 15:46
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#81
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Settler
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So they are different and the same. Thanks for clearing that up, Jon.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 22, 2003, 15:48
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#82
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OTF Moderator
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the degrees are the same
it is just that a college won't offer a PHD
Jon Miller
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I AM.CANADIAN
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October 22, 2003, 15:49
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#83
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Deity
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And in the US, even universities are referred to generically as "college". So there is "college football" which consists mostly of university football teams.
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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October 22, 2003, 15:49
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#84
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OTF Moderator
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I am pretty sure that there are different degrees offered in europe besides PHDs, if there is than there is reason for colleges
Jon Miller
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October 22, 2003, 15:49
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#85
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Yeah, but that's a master degree. We'll start bachelors next year.
Until around 1980, there wasn't even a master's degree in law here, only a doctorate.
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A master's degree in 4 years? 
In Israel, it takes 3.5 years ( 7 simesters ) to get an LL.B , 6 simesters to get a B.A, 8 simesters to get a B.Sc. and 5 years to get a B.Arch.
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October 22, 2003, 15:52
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#86
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Settler
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So college offers law and med degrees? I thought law and med schools were usually part of universities, not colleges - unless you refer to unis as colleges, as Dan says.
Shouldn't be so hard to understand that this can be confusing.
"I am pretty sure that there are different degrees offered in europe besides PHDs, if there is than there is reason for colleges"
Well I can't make any sense of that either.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 22, 2003, 15:52
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#87
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Deity
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It's clear by reading this thread that Americans go to school longer than people in many other countries.
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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October 22, 2003, 15:55
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#88
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Settler
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Azazel
A master's degree in 4 years?
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Old system, the new master based on the bachelor will be 10 semesters (6+4). Also that's just minimum time; most actually need 10-15 semesters. I did mine in 7, but that was so unusual that the uni, can you beleive it, didn't have a form for that! 
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 22, 2003, 15:56
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#89
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Emperor
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10-15 simesters?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People get Ph.Ds over here for such a period of time.
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October 22, 2003, 15:57
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#90
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DanS, and how did you come to this conclusion? I'd like to point out, that in many countries we go to school longer before college. For example here it is 12 years. And THEN it's college. The level is naturally about the same, so it's not like we need to learn how to read for 12 years . We just don't call it a college at that point. So if we were straight comparing, I'd be closer to second or third year Uni/college student there. Also, our systems how long you're going to study are also different, because of different credit systems, but it's safe to say the final degrees are comparable and same.
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THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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