October 22, 2003, 21:37
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#121
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King
Local Time: 05:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Liberal Socialist Party of Apolyton. Fargo Chapter
Posts: 1,649
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Pekka, It is a MS (Master of Science) or MA (Master of Arts), not MD, that is for medical school students.
I am planning to major in Evolutionary Biology at a very good, but small, college in northern Wisconsin that focuses on science and the humanities.
The main reason I think required courses are needed is to stop ignorance, which fuels such things as creationism, political apathy, racism, religious fundimentalism, etc.
I just wish college was payed for by taxes, high school education has become a fiscal black hole from the dumbing down of the curiculum, so now it like paying for some real education people should of gotten in high school. 
__________________
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The attempt to produce Heaven on Earth often produces Hell. -Karl Popper
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October 22, 2003, 22:33
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#122
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 8,057
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USNA teaches the way people did 100 years ago. We still have recitation and no TAs and required attendance and graded homework and the like. It's just like high school, but at higher courses. I think that is a lot better than what I see in univesities where you have lecture halls full of people. Why should the methodology change because of the material changing. I learn calculus and chemistry, the same way I learn wrestling and gymnastics. With practice.
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October 22, 2003, 23:39
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#123
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King
Local Time: 03:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,407
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I think some people forget that college is for specialized education. SO that you can get more training and knowledge for the field of work you want to go into. Most of this other stuff just comes from living life, from your parents, and other people who have been around longer then you and have lots of wisdom. Looking to a university I think is a big misstake.
I am going to school so that I can go into computer programming, not so that I can learn morals or other things. I look towards my parents and religion for that.
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October 22, 2003, 23:42
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#124
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King
Local Time: 03:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,407
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Odin
Pekka, It is a MS (Master of Science) or MA (Master of Arts), not MD, that is for medical school students.
I am planning to major in Evolutionary Biology at a very good, but small, college in northern Wisconsin that focuses on science and the humanities.
The main reason I think required courses are needed is to stop ignorance, which fuels such things as creationism, political apathy, racism, religious fundimentalism, etc.
I just wish college was payed for by taxes, high school education has become a fiscal black hole from the dumbing down of the curiculum, so now it like paying for some real education people should of gotten in high school.
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Well here in my state of California, California residents only have to pay a flat fee of about $1200 dollars a semister. THat is for a full time student in the CSU system. Lots of tax money goes into the Public universities and community college system here, but fees have been going up because of the buget problems in here in California.
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October 23, 2003, 00:48
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#125
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Local Time: 07:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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I'm for the core classes. I took science as a joke, but now I wish I didn't so much. I'd like to know more about physics (at least). Though I did learn some about Astronomy and the Greenhouse Effect  .
It probably was better for me than another Political Science, History, or Economics course (of which I had plenty).
Though I'm happy I didn't have to take more math than I did .
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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October 23, 2003, 02:04
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#126
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Settler
Local Time: 12:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Azazel
I guess I really like our system, then. 
Of course, students have to organize themselves, but I don't know how it is in Europe, but in Israel, you cannot enroll, if you won't be able to study properly ( class rooms, etc.)
I don't know why, but it seems that your systems drag you on through university for eternity.
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Well university access varies widely across Europe. The Austrian system of open access is a bit out of line. The politicians established it, but never put up the money to pay for it. We have about 2500 profs for 200-250000 students. Add to that about 8000 "Assistents" which includes everything from associate profs to lab rats, but it still means many institutes are seriously understaffed.
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 23, 2003, 03:01
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#127
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King
Local Time: 04:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Posts: 1,417
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Odin
Pekka, It is a MS (Master of Science) or MA (Master of Arts), not MD, that is for medical school students.
I am planning to major in Evolutionary Biology at a very good, but small, college in northern Wisconsin that focuses on science and the humanities.
The main reason I think required courses are needed is to stop ignorance, which fuels such things as creationism, political apathy, racism, religious fundimentalism, etc.
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You forgot Communism.
__________________
He's got the Midas touch.
But he touched it too much!
Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!
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October 23, 2003, 03:43
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#128
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King
Local Time: 06:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Halloween town
Posts: 2,969
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No to required courses. I know some friends that werent motivated in required courses and scored lower GPS than their core classes. Its a little bit unfair to have your GPA lowered just because you ****ed around in some class you didnt want to be in in the first place. Sure the person deserve the low grade that they earned ultimately, but what was the reason that I registered this calss in the first place? given choice that person probably wpuldnt have been in that class to avoid such grade.
Plus What Jack said. If you are interested in learning broad, you should have access to, but if not you shouldnt be forced.
__________________
:-p
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October 23, 2003, 04:53
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#129
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Deity
Local Time: 19:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DanS
Add to all of this is the fact that a much higher percentage of Americans go to college/university than in most other countries.
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Yeah well, half of the colleges are crappy. 
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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October 23, 2003, 04:59
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#130
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Xrr ZRRRRRRR!!
Posts: 6,484
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odin, OOOOOOOOPS you're absolutely correct.
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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October 23, 2003, 05:34
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#131
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Emperor
Local Time: 06:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Flyover Country
Posts: 4,659
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That's why I got thousands of books everywhere, from the sciences to engineering to philosophy to how to write scripts.
I will soon sleep on books 
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You too, huh?
I can't stand to see a good book tossed. Probably half of my collection are textbooks and novels someone left out for trash.
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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October 23, 2003, 05:48
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#132
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Deity
Local Time: 19:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
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I sold some of my textbooks when I was a poor student. I wish I hadn't.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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October 23, 2003, 07:54
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#133
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Emperor
Local Time: 12:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: of home-made blueberry muffins
Posts: 7,200
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Quote:
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Originally posted by SpencerH
I believe Oxford/Cambridge gives its graduates a masters degree rather than a bachelors.
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Not as such. Everyone who graduates at Oxbridge is a BA or BSc, but they have the option of paying for a master's degree too. This basically means that masters' from Oxbridge are worthless, but that doesn't seem to deter employers. There is no extra study involved for a master's, but you can greatly improve your CV if you ahve the right kind of money.
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October 23, 2003, 09:40
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#134
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Deity
Local Time: 07:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
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Quote:
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Yeah well, half of the colleges are crappy.
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Even with half of the attendees, the US would have a much higher percentage attending than most countries.
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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October 23, 2003, 09:54
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#135
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
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In many countries, perhaps even most countries, a college degree is not required prior to entering medical school. Students can matriculate right out of high school.
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Like here. You enter for 7 years, and end up being an MD, witha M.Sc, or a B.A in life sciences, as well.
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Quote:
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Well university access varies widely across Europe. The Austrian system of open access is a bit out of line. The politicians established it, but never put up the money to pay for it. We have about 2500 profs for 200-250000 students. Add to that about 8000 "Assistents" which includes everything from associate profs to lab rats, but it still means many institutes are seriously understaffed.
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This doesn't sound right. They tried to do the same thing here, to let more people enroll, but the academia strongly protested, saying that it will lower the level of education, since no additional money was spent on hiring those lecturers needed, which creates the weird situations in which universities hold relatively low amounts of students, while doing lots of research.
here's a link I found about research rankings of economics departments in Europe. You can see that Israel has got two Unis in the top 10 ( my university is 28th ). In other research, Israel still ranks highly. AND STILL, those two big universities ( HebrewU and TAU ) hold only 22k and 27k students, respectively, while big universities around the world hold 40k or more.
Our institute has only some 12k students...
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October 23, 2003, 11:11
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#136
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Xrr ZRRRRRRR!!
Posts: 6,484
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and where's the link?
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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October 23, 2003, 11:37
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#137
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Settler
Local Time: 12:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Azazel
This doesn't sound right.
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You mean the information is not correct? Or if you mean that's a totally stupid idea, then absolutely yes. But hardly surprising, as it came from politicians.
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 23, 2003, 12:08
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#138
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Deity
Local Time: 19:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DanS
Even with half of the attendees, the US would have a much higher percentage attending than most countries.
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That just barely counters the high percentage of illiteracy there.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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October 23, 2003, 12:22
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#139
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
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HHa! 100% here! Beat that! IN your faces! We RRrock!
edit: that would be ability to read and write, not illiteracy 
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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October 23, 2003, 12:56
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#140
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Settler
Local Time: 12:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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So Pekka, what is the rate of functional illiteracy in Finland?
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 23, 2003, 12:58
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#141
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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Posts: 6,484
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HershOstropoler, I CRUSH!
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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October 23, 2003, 13:20
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#142
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Settler
Local Time: 12:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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That could hurt.
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 23, 2003, 13:22
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#143
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
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October 23, 2003, 13:27
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#144
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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Posts: 6,484
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Ahh but those were only economic rankings.. that's for sissies! Azazel, we need to get you back on the track, so change your studies to software engineering FAST.
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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October 23, 2003, 13:35
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#145
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
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HELL NO! I AM NOT STUDYING ECONOMICS!
Though sometimes, I wish I was... they have so much less classes, for some reason.. 
I am studying Chemistry. WTF is Software engineering? I only know Comp. Sci. and it sucks.
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October 23, 2003, 15:19
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#146
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Deity
Local Time: 07:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
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Quote:
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That just barely counters the high percentage of illiteracy there.
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Shoot. We're light years ahead of Hong Kong.
We're middle of the pack on functional literacy--we're brought down somewhat by the high number of immigrants.
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
Last edited by DanS; October 23, 2003 at 15:26.
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October 23, 2003, 17:35
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#147
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Settler
Local Time: 12:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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Ah, university of Vienna... they love doing all kinds of rankings, usually of limited quality, even for rankings...
But I have little doubt that Israel is doing quite well in science...
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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October 23, 2003, 17:37
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#148
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
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Join Date: Apr 2000
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Posts: 3,161
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Since when is economics considered "science"? ... puh-lease.
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October 23, 2003, 17:37
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#149
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:04
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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Posts: 6,484
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Azazel, it's something fun you can do when you're at comp.sci.. . It's basically programming.
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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October 23, 2003, 17:47
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#150
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Settler
Local Time: 12:04
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 0
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Azazel
Since when is economics considered "science"? ... puh-lease.
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What gives you the strange idea i was talking about economics when I said "science"?
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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