I do not believe it..!

alva · October 23, 2003, 09:51

Quote:

See you later, anti-Gators?
Last modified: October 22, 2003, 12:21 PM PDT
By Paul Festa
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

In an effort to improve its corporate reputation, adware company Gator has launched a legal offensive to divorce its name from the hated term "spyware"--and so far its strategy is paying off.

In response to a libel lawsuit, an antispyware company has settled with Gator and pulled Web pages critical of the company, its practices and its software. And other spyware foes are getting the message.

"There is this feeling out there that they won the lawsuit, and people are starting to get scared," said one employee of a spyware-removal company, who asked not to be named. "We haven't been sued, but we've heard that other companies are being sued for saying this and that, so we've changed our language" on the company Web site.

Gator often distributes its application by bundling it with popular free software like Kazaa and other peer-to-peer programs. When downloaded, Gator's application serves pop-up and pop-under ads to people while they're surfing the Web or when they visit specific sites. Ads can be keyed to sites so that a pitch for low mortgage rates, say, can appear when a surfer visits a rival financial company's site.

The distinction between such "adware," which can report back to its creator with information about the computer user's surfing habits, so as to allow for supposedly more effective ad serving, and "spyware," which similarly monitors surfing habits and serves up ads, is sometimes a hazy one, and lies at the heart of Gator's libel suit.

Gator maintains that its software differs from spyware in that people are clearly notified before they download it, and in that they do so in exchange for a service, like the peer-to-peer software.

Spyware, the company maintains, is surreptitiously installed and gives the unwitting computer user no benefit.

But critics of adware companies question how clearly such downloads are marked--PC users may suddenly be deluged with pop-ups and have no idea where they're coming from--and protest that companies like Gator are collecting information without sufficiently accounting for what they do with it.

The defendant in the Gator libel suit, PC Pitstop, offers software to cleanse computers of spyware and other undesirable code, and until signing a preliminary settlement with Gator on Sept. 30, vociferously targeted Gator's application.

In settling the suit, which alleged false advertising, unfair business practices, trade libel, defamation and tortious interference, PC Pitstop apparently removed several pages from its Web site that referred to Gator's application as spyware--along with many that went beyond that to urge action against Gator itself.

Executives for both companies declined to discuss settlement terms, citing a confidentiality agreement. But Gator advised a reporter to "go to their new site and draw your own conclusions" about what PC Pitstop did to comply with the settlement.

PC Pitstop used to publish pages on its Spyware Information Center titled "Is Gator Spyware?" the "Gator Boycott List," and the "Gator Quiz." Those pages are now gone. But as of Tuesday, they could still be found in the Google cache, which keeps copies of missing or unavailable Web pages for a limited time. (By Wednesday the cache of those pages had expired.)

"PC Pitstop believes that Gator products degrade the quality of a user's PC experience," read the cached PC Pitstop page urging a boycott of companies advertising through Gator. "This belief is based on our hands-on use of Gator products and experience with hundreds of systems in our forums....Although Gator Corporation likes to make a distinction and call their products 'adware,' other sources make no such distinction. Independent research has shown that they collect extensive information and have not clearly explained how the information is used once it reaches the Gator servers."

A Gator executive said the suit, filed in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, was part of a larger strategy to educate spyware-removers about the company's software--and to put an end to the practice of calling it "spyware."

"If we find anyone publicly calling us spyware, we correct it and take action if necessary," said Scott Eagle, Gator's senior vice president of marketing.

In addition to going on the offensive against detractors, Gator has spent significant time in court defending its practices against the charges of companies that run Web sites that Gator has targeted with its ads.

Gator in February settled litigation brought against it by the New York Post, The New York Times, Dow Jones and other media companies. The Washington Post, L.L. Bean and Extended Stay America have sued the company, and their consolidated lawsuit will be decided by the Judicial Panel on Multidistrict Litigation in Washington, D.C.

Meanwhile, the courts have smiled on a company that operates a similar ad network. Last month, WhenU survived a legal challenge brought against it by moving company U-Haul after WhenU served ads for U-Haul's competitors on top of U-Haul Web pages.

Eagle declined to comment on other specific spyware-busters, such as the New York City-based Enigma Software Group or InterMute, in Braintree, Mass. Those companies have advertised that they can rid computers of Gator--but their Web sites no longer mention the software. Eagle said he could not talk about ongoing actions.

Enigma Software Group could not be reached for comment. InterMute, which previously has spoken openly against Gator, declined to comment.

"Companies like Gator are the Goliath that average computer users are up against in the war for online privacy," Ed English, CEO of InterMute, said last month in an interview with CNET News.com.

Gator said it would take on its critics on a case-by-case basis.

"There are going to be detractor sites," Eagle said. "What we can do is focus on education and getting the word out there. We have discussions on this topic whenever we need to."

For its part, PC Pitstop said that, whatever the terms of its settlement, it continued to target Gator's software on people's computers.

"PC Pitstop detects a variety of situations that we would consider problems, including certain software that we didn't think was in the best interest of the end user," said Dave Methvin, chief technology officer for the Web-based start-up. "We currently detect and recommend removal of Gator."

http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-5095051.html?tag=st_lh

Short version:

Gator can't be marked by spybot/adaware etc. as spyware anymore

Lincoln · October 23, 2003, 09:58

They should just outlaw all popup windows except those innitiated by the user. Allowing them is like allowing people to interrupt a phone call with an ad.

CerberusIV · October 23, 2003, 10:54

Quote:

Originally posted by alva

Gator can't be marked by spybot/adaware etc. as spyware anymore

I would not be too worried at this stage. They will simply invent a new term to describe Gator and adaware, etc will then label it as such.

The companies selling products that detect and remove Gator will just have to be a bit more careful about what they say about it.

Urban Ranger · October 23, 2003, 10:59

They are just cutting their own throats. Soon people will just block all popup windows.

SlowwHand · October 23, 2003, 11:03

I block all popups.
Why wouldn't everybody block all popups?

MichaeltheGreat · October 23, 2003, 12:34

Quote:

Originally posted by alva

Short version:

Gator can't be marked by spybot/adaware etc. as spyware anymore

Sure it can. It just can't be called "spyware"

Spybot has a little disclaimer that if you remove some stuff it identifies, that may break your license agreement on stuff you downloaded and you should no longer use it. Spybot isn't responsible for enforcing that, just for letting you know, and it gives you a list of items, so you're free to check or uncheck gator crap.

I never download that type of crap, but I do get gator cookies attempting to install from 3rd party sites every so often.

Giancarlo · October 23, 2003, 13:26

Whenever I hear gator... I associate that name with spyware.

So far... as far as I go... they haven't been successful in changing my mind about it.

Oerdin · October 23, 2003, 13:33

Gatar Corp is a bunch of dirty underhanded bastards!

They deliberately make it so you can't remove their spyware using the control panel. You have to delete all files and then edit your registry or else the little bastard will automatically reinstall itself upon the next reboot.

They know their product is unwanted spyware and that's why they make it so difficult to get rid of. If they were a reputable company then they wouldn't have to go to such extremes.

Spiffor · October 23, 2003, 13:37

I take care of many computers for my classmates. And whenever I see Gator, I look immediately for a way to remove the crap applications that might have installed it

Spiffor · October 23, 2003, 13:40

BTW, if you want to know the mentality of electronic advertizers, I stongly advise you to browse http://www.e-advertize.com (there is an English version, just click on the British flag). These *******s provide tools for spammers, and they flaunt the fact that nobody can trace the spammer back :angy:

gunkulator · October 23, 2003, 13:52

IMO, there is a need for legislation here. Every program on your computer should be required to come with an uninstaller. Gator and its ilk are little more than bandwidth, cpu and screen stealers. They prey on the fact that most people a) don't read EULAs and b) are not computer literate enough to figure out how to uninstall by hand.

SpencerH · October 23, 2003, 14:57

For my money, spam, pop-ups, and spybots are a much bigger problem for me and the country in general than telemarketers (and thats saying something cos I hate those ****ers).

Nubclear · October 23, 2003, 15:34

Quote:

Originally posted by gunkulator
IMO, there is a need for legislation here. Every program on your computer should be required to come with an uninstaller. Gator and its ilk are little more than bandwidth, cpu and screen stealers. They prey on the fact that most people a) don't read EULAs and b) are not computer literate enough to figure out how to uninstall by hand.

Couldn't this be used as evidence of spyware? In fact, by this definition, could it not be considered a virus (self-replication, unwanted, have to edit the registry and delete files manually, etc)?

Provost Harrison · October 23, 2003, 15:40

I hope the courts do rule this isn't spyware. I think spyware is too polite a term. It needs to be referred to with something that would have lots of asterisks if posted here at poly

Kirnwaffen · October 23, 2003, 16:15

Scumware has a nice ring to it...

st_swithin · October 23, 2003, 16:47

maybe provocateurware was too long, too hard to spell, or already taken.

MichaeltheGreat · October 23, 2003, 18:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
BTW, if you want to know the mentality of electronic advertizers, I stongly advise you to browse http://www.e-advertize.com (there is an English version, just click on the British flag). These *******s provide tools for spammers, and they flaunt the fact that nobody can trace the spammer back :angy:

Mail headers can always be traced, they're just hiding the easy part.

Spiffor · October 23, 2003, 18:50

I would really appreciate it if you could teach us

mrmitchell · October 23, 2003, 19:07

Gator Corporation is the scum of the Earth, and this is so unbelievably ridiculous that...well...it's ridiculous.

I read another article that Gator'd countersued against websites that wanted it shut down. Unfortunately, spyware is completely legal as far as I can tell, just as long as certain keywords aren't specifically placed with ads (i.e. "Bank of America" goes along with "CheapCreditNow.com Get your credit report now quick and fast".)

But Gator does that, so fortunately we can still label them as evil scum who should be drawn and quartered.

MichaeltheGreat · October 23, 2003, 19:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
I would really appreciate it if you could teach us

When I get to a computer where I have mail, I'll post some.

You could also probably google some information on SMTP headers and SMTP and EXIM in general.

Spiffor · October 23, 2003, 19:57

Well, I've read this page, and I compared with the SMTP headers of mails coming from spammers or from my friends, and I haven't understood much

Besides, there seem to be no way to know the actual street adress of the spammer to go indulge some vigilante justice on him

Q Classic · October 23, 2003, 20:04

how 'bout we call it fvckware? because that's precisely what it does.

we run xpsp1 on many different types of computers, and when something breaks, more often than not it's because the idiot kids or teachers downloaded spyware like gator's "precisiontime" (it breaks some of the time-based encryption/authentication).

it's gotten so bad that we've had to restrict activex scripts so strictly that soem educational sites that they go to don't work, and i have to have a computer outside the domain download all the patches to put on SUS because windows/office updates don't work.

Bereta_Eder · October 23, 2003, 20:23

Kazaa is evil. Kazaa lite is ok.

Urban Ranger · October 23, 2003, 23:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
it's gotten so bad that we've had to restrict activex scripts so strictly that soem educational sites that they go to don't work

That's why they should use Java applets instead.

Nubclear · October 23, 2003, 23:38

Ugh. Java should go under fvckware as well.

Urban Ranger · October 23, 2003, 23:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
Well, I've read this page, and I compared with the SMTP headers of mails coming from spammers or from my friends, and I haven't understood much

Okay, first of all, you need to look at the full header. The return path is what you are looking for, because it is generated by mail servers between you and whoever sent the crap. It cannot be forged.

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
Besides, there seem to be no way to know the actual street adress of the spammer to go indulge some vigilante justice on him

Actually, you can. Once you find out the IP of the spammer, do a reverse DNS lookup. Then do a whois search on the domain name. The record will show you where the company is.

:) Smiley · October 24, 2003, 02:33

The people at Gator are kind of late to be doing this though, for many people Gator is the first thing that comes to mind. It would be similar to GM saying they're not a car company.

Paddy · October 24, 2003, 02:42

Down the gurgler with gator...

DaShi · October 24, 2003, 02:42

Quote:

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
I never download that type of crap, but I do get gator cookies attempting to install from 3rd party sites every so often.

Like this site

Urban Ranger · October 24, 2003, 03:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Ugh. Java should go under fvckware as well.

It seems that you don't understand what I said. Which is perfectly acceptable, of course.