"Civ-Macintosh" forum

[Asher]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Your generalization is most displeasing, Asher. I know you have been stereotyped by others in the past, and they were punished for it.

What're you talking about?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ming

Instead of reading my post... you whine. You talk about logic... and you can't see the logic of my post. No other group has been given such a forum, why should you.

Because you don't do your job properly, that's why. In fact that's the reason this whole thing started in the first place.

The reason OT material ended up being posted in the mac forum was because you cannot post mac related material in the OT without attracting Asher's bad behaviour. He wrecks threads by filling them up with crap that we don't want to read, despite being asked to stop. If you bothered looking you would see that most of the OT stuff in the mac forum has had threads before in the OT which were wrecked by Asher's antics. That's why people moved to the mac forum, basically so they could avoid him. He ended up there and started spammy flame wars and then complained about a forum he was wrecking.

Your assertion that we wanted to increase our post counts is not supported by the evidence. The mac forum got maybe a couple of posts on a good day. Hardly the work of dedicated post count increasers.

People went to the mac forum because it was the only place on Poly where you could conduct a reasonable discussion about your computer without being flamed or having the thread wrecked.

That suggests to me that the OT (well Asher) ought to be better moderated.

You claim about anti mac discussions in the OTF. Well... some people are sick of anti american discussions... but they don't get their own forum.

Thank you for proving my point. When these discussions get needlessly flamed and trolls abound, one of you usually appears to tell folks to keep the discussion reasonable and on topic (sometimes the troll is me, so I know). This is because when one poster has the sole intention of annoying the heck out of others, it makes for a poor discussion.

Unfortunately, based on past experience, if I start a thread wanting to have a reasonable discussion about something to do with macs or Apple it inevitably ends up being trolled by Asher and reduced to a joke.

Part of a moderator's job as I understand it, is to stop people who just want to wreck threads and abuse others, or prevent a reasonable discussion from taking place. When Asher wasn't there, the discussions in the mac forum were a model of decorum.

This isn't a problem about specific topics, special treatment or anything like that, but about a poster who for reasons unknown to sensible people has decided to take out a vendetta against people he doesn't like, for the simple reason that they prefer using a different computer than he does.

Many people are sick of anti bush discussions... but they don't get their own forum.

Again, thank you for proving my point. You have warned me on occasion for posting anti-Bush trolls. No moderator has asked Asher to stop pissing us off, despite me asking him to leave threads alone on numerous occasions because he was spoiling it for the folks who wanted a real conversation.

You have given NO VALID reason why you guys should be allowed to take over an on topic gaming forum for your own use. You aren't special.

So you're telling me that it's fine for Asher to thread wreck in the OT even though it pisses off other posters and they've repeatedly asked him to stop. Even though posters went elsewhere to specifically get away from him. The mac users aren't the problem here.

The owners make the decisions here... not you. If you can't agree with that, maybe you should find another forum to post on. This is not a Democracy... it's a privately owned site. And the owners feel that this is a gaming site.

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

I've asked them (in this thread) to keep the mac forum just as it has been working, although I think it should be moderated to prevent spamming like panag used to do in it. Before Asher started posting in it, there were no flame wars, abuse, or post count padding threads, just people talking about mac stuff.

One reason for keeping a mac forum is so that mac people can actually get tech advice. There aren't that many of us in the OT and such posts usually fall off the first page (and die) because most people use Windows. Windows threads tend to stay because most OTers run Windows.

If not I'd ask that Asher be warned if he starts deliberately trying to piss off other posters and wreck threads.

I don't care what the solution is, whether the mac forum stays or goes and Asher is kept under control in the OT. I'd just like to be able to discuss something I'm interested in with other Apolyton members who are interested in it, without having it hijacked and wrecked by someone whose intent is solely malicious.

If not, there simply isn't much point posting here. The mac forum was one of the few places where interesting and reasonable mac discussion could be had. Currently that is next to impossible in the OT due to Asher's behaviour. As Drake said, he has some sort of personal vendetta against the Apple users on this board.

If the owners don't want to do something about it, then I'll find somewhere else to post. Presumably site traffic helps pay for the site and they want people to enjoy their time here. How is this possible when another member has some perverse vendetta against you?

I disagree with many people on these boards, but most of them I think are decent folk - they just disagree with me, they have no malice. Asher is simply malign.

[ixnay]

You didn't see people moving their evolution discussions to the Dinosaurs forum after others started going on in the said threads about how God made dinosaurs, now, did you?

[Gatekeeper]

Asher:

Hmm. You don't think I other other Macintosh users/Civ players who *aren't* involved in the "fun" you and some other folks are having wouldn't take issue with the generalization below (which was also included in my initial post to this thread)?

...the threads in there are no more than circle jerks from Mac fanatics bashing Bill Gates and worshipping Steve Jobs, with nothing to do with Civilization, and they get post counts.

Asher, the last time I checked, I was neither a "circle jerk," a Bill Gates basher or a Steve Jobs worshipper. I have and continue to post occasional threads that are related to Civ gaming on the Macintosh —*most recently, musing on what $2700 could buy if the Civ III series is never fully ported to the Mac — and, yes, I guess I got an occasional "+1" when doing so.

If you're going to open up, I strongly suggest doing so selectively, otherwise you risk "collateral damage," and annoying certain other posters who may not like being lumped under stereotypes or generalizations. Yeah, that's me.

Gatekeeper

[Asher]

Yes yes, it's all Asher's fault.

If it wasn't for Asher the Mac civilization forum would be discussing civilization!

Therefore you should bring it back.

----

And you TEACH logic to children? Shameful.

Not only do you act patently stupid, insult a moderator, flame me without provocation in the forum YOU claim you're well-behaved in while I'm the bad one (anyone can check this out yourself), but now you blame ME for somehow making the Mac Civilization forum an advertisement for Apple.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
If you're going to open up, I strongly suggest doing so selectively, otherwise you risk "collateral damage," and annoying certain other posters who may not like being lumped under stereotypes or generalizations. Yeah, that's me.

What's wrong with collateral damage when I operate under a scorched earth policy?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by ixnay
You didn't see people moving their evolution discussions to the Dinosaurs forum after others started going on in the said threads about how God made dinosaurs, now, did you?

You know... if you can't say anything that isn't completely ridiculous, just don't post. Or at least read other people's posts properly before you post your ten cents.

I don't object to people arguing about stuff. I object to a certain poster deliberately thread wrecking.

Look... I'll spell it out for you. If the religious people in the evolution threads were wrecking the threads because they had some sort of personal vendetta against the participants, and no moderator did anything about it, I'd understand why they might want to move the debate somewhere out of sight.

Secondly, no one is asking for a mac tech forum, just the mac gaming forum with a moderator with occasional mac news - like it used to be when it was moderated. Generally the mac forum is on topic. Here's what we had in the last few days.

An itunes thread - started by Mr Nice Guy because Asher used the one in the OT forum as a pointless mac bashing exercise.

An HOI for mac thread, started by me.

A thread on Apple's new ibooks (MNG) and one on Panther (me), both important news for mac users.

Gatekeeper asking for some tech advice.

A review thread of MOO3

Panag's mac news thread (that is spam).

Some other questions and stuff on Civ and PTW

Hardly evil post padding stuff...

[Drake Tungsten]

Also, that's actually a pretty heavy posting load for the Mac forum. There have been numerous occasions where the Mac forum has gone weeks without a post. Clearly the work of spammers...

[Agathon]

Now if you want a forum where people just attempt to pad their post counts you need look no further than this one, or the "Other Games" forum. Compared to those, the mac forum was brilliant.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
You know... if you can't say anything that isn't completely ridiculous, just don't post.

Heyhey -- words to live by. Take them to heart. (Please)

I don't object to people arguing about stuff. I object to a certain poster deliberately thread wrecking.

Again, anyone can simply look in that forum and see a rational discussion and debate going on until Agathon-the-mighty came in with a flame thrower telling dissenting opinions to "piss off", and then half an hour later whining about how I ruined your threads with "flame wars", totally ignoring the issue of you mis-using the forum to begin with.

Secondly, no one is asking for a mac tech forum

Then can it.

If you don't want a mac tech forum, you can discuss mac tech in the off-topic forum since it is, get this!, off topic.

An itunes thread - started by Mr Nice Guy because Asher used the one in the OT forum as a pointless mac bashing exercise.

You want the Mac forum because you guys can't handle dissenting opinions. You all want everyone to be under your happy-little-Apple world with your happy-little-Apple programs, and the off-topic scares you because it's more realistic. You realize your PowerMac G5 you just spent $3000 on is equivalent to a $1500 PC, you realize the iTunes software you thought was badass was rather lame. So you isolate yourselves in your own little hijacked forum, patting eachother on the back and arguing over who gets to drink the koolaid first.

[Frozzy]

Maybe the Mac users want some cheese with their whine?

It was a Civ Macintosh forum. Get over it. Find some new cheese instead of crying over the last one.

[Gatekeeper]

So you're basically saying, Asher, that you don't care who you hit with your stereotypes and generalizations?

[Drake Tungsten]

Wasn't that obvious already, Gatekeeper? He has no shame.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
So you're basically saying, Asher, that you don't care who you hit with your stereotypes and generalizations?

People who obviously don't fit under the generalizations (like if you didn't do what I described, I'm obviously not talking about you), ought to be bright enough to figure that out on their own.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Wasn't that obvious already, Gatekeeper? He has no shame.

Coming from the twit who insulted my boyfriend directly 6 times and got away with it each time, that means a lot.

[Gatekeeper]

Then why offer the generalizations and stereotypes in the first place, Asher? Whether you intended it or not, I was not happy to see the general Mac user *insulted* because you, son, have a problem with *some* Mac users.

**sigh**

Gatekeeper

[Asher]

I have a problem with *most* Mac users, at least here.

And the purpose of the post was to generalize what was going on in the forum. In the future I will try to remember to place lots of * after words with qualifiers and legal bullshit below so as to not offend people who really have nothing better to do but be offended.

[ixnay]

Originally posted by Agathon
You know... if you can't say anything that isn't completely ridiculous, just don't post. Or at least read other people's posts properly before you post your ten cents.

OHNOES SOMEBODY'S TRYING TO BE FUNNY IN MY THREAD OH WAIT I DIDN'T EVEN START THE THREAD BUT ANYWAYS MAN YOUR BATTLESTATIONS THIS WILL NOT STAND!

Last I checked, this is a public forum and as such, it's acceptable for people to make topical jokes and such in said public threads. If you want a discussion free from people making jokes here and there go find a private forum full of people who care about what you have to say.

[Drake Tungsten]

Coming from the twit who insulted my boyfriend directly 6 times and got away with it each time, that means a lot.

You're counting them? Did I hurt the little crybaby's feelings?

[Nubclear]

ASHER: This forum should be closed because its not doing its purpose.
SOMEONE ELSE: I agree.
MING: Hmm....Ok, it's been dealt with.
AGATHON: OMFG HOW DARE YOU ASSER And Ming, your a REALLY REALLY bad moderator.
DRAKE: Yeah.
ASHER: Hahahaha! Coming from you.
MING: {And Ming, your a REALLY REALLY bad moderator.} Um...No Not really, sorry
AGATHON: I hate you Ming. And you too ASSer.
MING: Oh well
ASHER: This coming from you? HAHAHAHAHAHA!
GATEKEEPER: Wtf? I'm cool.
ASHER: Whatever.
DRAKE: You suck Asher.
ASHER: You suck.
AGATHON: Suck mine.
DRAKE: You suck Asher.
ASHER: You suck.
AGATHON: Suck mine.
DRAKE: You suck Asher.
ASHER: You suck.
AGATHON: Suck mine.
DRAKE: You suck Asher.
ASHER: You suck.
AGATHON: Suck mine.
DRAKE: You suck Asher.
ASHER: You suck.
AGATHON: Suck mine.
DRAKE: You suck Asher.
ASHER: You suck.
AGATHON: Suck mine.
DRAKE: You suck Asher.
ASHER: You suck.
AGATHON: Suck mine.
DRAKE: You suck Asher.
ASHER: You suck.
AGATHON: Suck mine.

Ad naseum.

[ixnay]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


...

Ad naseum.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Agathon
The reason OT material ended up being posted in the mac forum was because you cannot post mac related material in the OT without attracting Asher's bad behaviour. He wrecks threads by filling them up with crap that we don't want to read, despite being asked to stop.

Yeah, because gee, that ignore list is sooo damned hard to figure out. And even once you have passed that hurdle, someone else may actually quote a post by Asher, and then what are you to do? By god, you would have to manually ignore his post then!

You have my sincerest sympathies.

[Gatekeeper]

That's pretty good, Tass.

I'm off to bed ...

[Drake Tungsten]

Yeah, because gee, that ignore list is sooo damned hard to figure out. And even once you are past that hurdle, someone else may actually quote a post by Asher, and then what are you to do? By god, you would have to manually ignore his post then!

Hey, I tried ignoring him, but then the dickhead went and ruined the Mac forum. How exactly am I supposed to deal with that? I guess I could put Ming on ignore, but that might not be the wisest course of action...

[Sarxis]

I support Asher's point because of my opinion that the entire Apolyton run-down of forums needs a good purging.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Hey, I tried ignoring him, but then the dickhead went and ruined the Mac forum. How exactly am I supposed to deal with that?

Ignoring him is not a solution. Laugh at him. That helps.

I guess I could put Ming on ignore, but that might not be the wisest course of action...

It is not possible, too. Numerous people have already tried it.

[Drake Tungsten]

Ignoring him is not a solution. Laugh at him. That helps.

You are a wise man, Sir Ralph. Thanks for the guidance.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

Ad naseum.

Hehe, good summary in that post. Still, a pretty funny thread anyway.

[laurentius]

Somebody must leave this site...for good

[Locutus]

I agree with the Mac people that it's pretty silly (and many will probably feel that that is a severe understatement) that Asher is the one to bring this up. After all, he's accussing the Mac people of spamming while for most of the threads that got closed, he was actually the biggest contributor. And I'm not even going into the way he handled the whole situation and the fact that his aversion from Macs is well-known (and he didn't exactly bother to hide it either).

However, when he's right, he's right. I checked out the history of the Mac forum: up until last June the Mac forum was indeed as it is supposed to be: mostly Civ-related discussions with very occassionaly a (more or less) off-topic thread. However, from July onwards, things quickly spun out of control and since then only about 20% off all discussions in the Mac forum was actually Civ-related. I think the Mac people too should be able to acknowledge that something went wrong in the last few months (for whatever reason(s)) and that it is only appropriate that the site's administration (in the form of Ming) took action now. This probably should have happened a bit sooner, but with a mod who retired ages ago without informing anyone I think this delay is understandable. It might be a bit painfull for some that it took someone like Asher to call for action, but this action would eventually have been taken anyway.

The current ('post-Asher') situation is (or should be) identical to the situation of 6 months ago, so in the big scheme of things, nothing has really changed...