Scared and Angry — Spent Hours in Emergency Room - Page 2

Shi Huangdi · October 25, 2003, 15:42

I agree with Michael the Great. This isn't a "spill hot coffee on yourself" type of issue, they left a freaking nail in the middle of the area sticking straight up. That is something you just don't do and is an accident waiting to happen. If I were put through that kind of pain and suffering, I would want compensation for it.

Spiffor · October 25, 2003, 15:44

After reading MtG's post, I'm even more glad than before not to be an American.

MichaeltheGreat · October 25, 2003, 15:49

Why, spiff, so you can leave nails stuck through boards in dark places with impunity?

MichaeltheGreat · October 25, 2003, 15:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
MTG = attorney Larry H. Parker

Parker is a shyster with a million paralegals working for him. The successor in ambulance fumes to Sam Spital and Gouge 'em and Sham, if those two clowns are still around.

Seriously, though - 95% chance they were checking on you in the emergency room and everything else as part of their policy for potential insurance / litigation claims.

If you decide not to sue, don't ever sign a general release, though, or any other release, because if something happens like a bit of foreign material got missed an inch down into your wound, and you develop an abscess two months down the road, you'd be on your own.

Spiffor · October 25, 2003, 15:58

Quote:

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Why, spiff, so you can leave nails stuck through boards in dark places with impunity?

No, but I am under the impression that here, the average reflex is not to use an accident as an excuse to milk as much money as possible (it's coming though).
Most probably, the police would have come and shut the place down until the attraction would obey security rules again. Edit: and the insurance companies, or the operators themselves would have paid for health-related costs. If not, they would probably be forced to by a court.

But here, courts are still not seen as a big jackpot.

Gatekeeper · October 25, 2003, 16:01

MtG:

Wow. I'll certainly keep what you wrote in mind.

So far, the only release I've signed was to get out of the ER after they treated me — basically saying I'd seen the doctor and that I would follow his instructions on treating the wound. I haven't signed anything from the operators yet.

Another thing is, the attraction is a seasonal one run by a local group that uses city property on which to run the attraction. The guy I talked to last night, though, was a city official, not from the group itself. We're not exactly a large metropolitan area here — I'd hate to do anything that attracts undue attention to myself, or keeps them from being able to offer the attraction again next year.

Gatekeeper

Dr Strangelove · October 25, 2003, 16:11

Sorry to hear about your leg GK. Whatever you do, don't sue the doctor.

Pekka · October 25, 2003, 16:14

Dark maze, and there's a nail there, just waiting to get stepped on? That sounds WEAK.. I'd suppose you should be extra careful setting up those things, if people are going to be in the dark and wandering there.. In here you couldn't sue for that, but in there.. I don't know.. I'd at least think about it. If they didn't apologize at all, then I'd sue for sure. If they did apologize sincerely.. I guess I'd let it go.

That's pretty painful I figure.. You know, when I was 9 or 10, I was playing in the woods by myself and climbing the trees and found a treehouse. It was pretty shaky looking and old, and naturally I climbed in it only to fall down (not high) and to a rusty nail on the ground sticking out from a board. Luckily I had good sneakers on, put the nail did penetrate my heal.. talkign about pain.. had to walk all the way back home and it stunned my foot all the way to my thigh good.. but that was pretty much about it though.

But I'm glad you're reasonably OK. Just think about it, that could have taken your eye out. Or someone elses if you didn't trip first. So I guess now you know what it feels to get stabbed.. I hope it won't leave a nasty mark on you.

MichaeltheGreat · October 25, 2003, 16:20

The city is the one with the liability issue, because they're the deep pocket, at least in relative terms.

Even if you let them slide, they may decide it's unacceptable risk because the next guy might not.

If you wanted to be nice, you could basically get something equivalent to a couple of days of pay for a long weekend, or if the city has any sort of paid attractions like museums, theater, whatever, get them to spring for you. You don't have to be greedy, and you can let it slide, but lots of folks are altruistic and end up letting greaseballs get away with things.

One of the most interesting studies I've seen was about litigation and medical malpractice. It turns out about half of malpractice suits are bogus money grabs (no surprise there), but an equal number of claims which medical personnel (not lawyers) found to be clear malpractice were never litigated - patients just accepted the docs screwing them up, causing long term consequences, and were weenies about it. That, IMO, is even worse than the moneygrabbing bogus suits (for which I think both plaintiffs and lawyers should be severely punished), because it lets the incompetent and careless continue to get away with it.

In an ideal world, negligence is a very rare thing, and the negligent party makes a genuine effort to make things right, and nobody uses the very occasional incident as a ticket to freemoneyland - but we don't live in an ideal world.

The solution is to be reasonable - don't bend over, and don't force the other guy to bend over, but deal reasonably. I've had a couple of things where I let people off the hook, in return for them demonstrating to me the steps they'd take so that someone else didn't get messed up.

MichaeltheGreat · October 25, 2003, 16:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Sorry to hear about your leg GK. Whatever you do, don't sue the doctor.

Yeah, stick it to the docs!

Those guys are all rich and heavily insured, and he probably hurried up his exam with you because he had a hot date with his girlfriend.

Lefty Scaevola · October 25, 2003, 16:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
I'm curious. If what happened to me happened to my fellow 'Poly members who are talking about lawsuits, would you really file a lawsuit right away? Or is this just a kind of "wink and a nod" type of situation?
I mean, right now I just want to heal, and have my insurance handle things (and, if I have to pay anything, to get reimbursed).
Gatekeeper

If your medical insurance pays anything, that company will control the lawsuit for any convered part of the damage, and the insurance will contract will madate that you do no screw up any of their rights while working on the non covered parts.

MichaeltheGreat · October 25, 2003, 16:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor

No, but I am under the impression that here, the average reflex is not to use an accident as an excuse to milk as much money as possible (it's coming though).
Most probably, the police would have come and shut the place down until the attraction would obey security rules again. Edit: and the insurance companies, or the operators themselves would have paid for health-related costs. If not, they would probably be forced to by a court.

But here, courts are still not seen as a big jackpot.

We used to have a similar setup here, but the result was that the negligent party really had no incentive not to be - worst case, he had to do what he should have done in the first place, best case, you could take some shortcuts and make an extra buck or two.

As old and beat up as my body currently is, I'd genuinely prefer not to get any more holes in it, or anything new broken, etc., but if some careless ******* does something to mess me up, and it's his fault and not mine, I can't give him the broken whatever it is, and say "here, you deal with the pain and the pain in the ass and the inconvenience, and I'll go back to minding my business like I was doing before you were a dumbass" - the theory (which doesn't lend itself to a money machine) is that you should be compensated to an equivalent value for whatever you've lost, economically or otherwise.

Nubclear · October 25, 2003, 16:39

Super-condensed version of this thread...

GATEKEEPER: I hurt myself and it's their fault. It REALLY hurts. Should I sue?
EVERYONE ELSE: Yes.

Kaak · October 25, 2003, 16:48

damn sue happy biatches

Spiffor · October 25, 2003, 16:52

Quote:

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
the theory (which doesn't lend itself to a money machine) is that you should be compensated to an equivalent value for whatever you've lost, economically or otherwise.

This theory I accept. Unfortunately, you're always talking about ambulance chasers, and I think these people show that something is very broken with your system.

The fact that you suggest to Gatekeeper to exaggerate his pain or to lie outright about it, simply so that he's not on his own if the wound complicates itself later, shows that something is wrong in America. At least in my worldview.

Don't take this personally: I think you have given good advice to Gatekeeper given his environment. It's not you that I criticize, it's said environment.

connorkimbro · October 25, 2003, 16:58

why was there a nail there?

Gatekeeper · October 25, 2003, 17:09

Hmm. This thread is quite interesting, and my thanks to MtG, Lefty, and others for contributing their thoughts to it so far.

I certainly will try to tread a balanced line when it comes to dealing with this. I'm not one of those types who gets a kick out of sucking the money out of an entity that's done me wrong by accident, but, like MtG said, I don't want to be a weenie, either, and just roll over. So I shall take it day-by-day.

I know I'm going to miss at least one day of work (maybe two) while recovering and keeping an eye on things, but my 234 hours of accumulated paid sick leave will cover that. I'm also saving the receipts for the bandages and anti-bacterial stuff I've had to buy (and will have to buy again, in order to cover the entire 10-12 day period the sutures will remain in place).

Lefty, I didn't know that my insurance would have control of any legal action that's taken, if it goes to that level. The insurance is through my employer.

**sigh** I wish I could just go to sleep for 10 to 12 days and wake up healed, albeit with a scar. Folks say that Neosporin is a good triple-action anti-bacterial agent that can reduce scarring, though. Any truth to that? Right now I'm using some greenish gunk as an anti-bacterial agent.

Gatekeeper

MichaeltheGreat · October 25, 2003, 17:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
This theory I accept. Unfortunately, you're always talking about ambulance chasers, and I think these people show that something is very broken with your system.

Ambulance chasers are a blight, but they're really not that effective. Mostly they screw their own clients, but taking a large fee for little work - this bit about "we fight hard for your rights" is blatant fraud - an ambulance chaser would much rather do 100 quick settlements for $10,000 each, than all the case prep work (for which they're often incompetent) for one case for $1,000,000.

Quote:

The fact that you suggest to Gatekeeper to exaggerate his pain or to lie outright about it, simply so that he's not on his own if the wound complicates itself later, shows that something is wrong in America. At least in my worldview.

The legal system is adversarial here - so you have to exaggerate up, because they'll spin down. Tell the exact truth, and they'll still spin down. Exaggerate a reasonable amount, and the reported view of reality will be more accurate. Exaggerate too much, and they'll know you're full of ****. They're not out to find the "truth" - they're out to present a credible rendition of the "truth" that is as favorable to their position as possible. Their perspective is "risk management" - in other words, doing anything they can to reduce their exposure to damages after the fact. Real "risk management" means trying to prevent the problems before the fact, and that's the sickness in the system.

Quote:

Don't take this personally: I think you have given good advice to Gatekeeper given his environment. It's not you that I criticize, it's said environment.

The difference is that there's actually a sort of balance here. Most people are used to (and accept) an environment where negligence and even reckless acts are beyond any real punishment.

Gatekeeper · October 25, 2003, 17:10

Connor:

I wish I knew. If it hadn't been there, I still would have stumbled and fallen, but it would've just been a scrape and nothing more.

Gatekeeper

Kaak · October 25, 2003, 17:28

no offfense gatekeeper, but you sound like you've never had stitches before. It isn't rolling over not to sue someone for something that insurance will take care of anyway. when I was about a year old, i got pretty much eaten by a dog. almost three hundred stitches later, the dog was dead, but there were no lawsuits. Too many lawsuits are immoral

Imran Siddiqui · October 25, 2003, 17:28

Quote:

This is not a friendly, "Gee, we're sorry, how ya doin' ol' buddy?" chat, despite any pretense to the contrary. This is a "spin anything this dumb greedy mother****er says so you can use it as evidence he's not in pain, hasn't suffered, won't have any losses, so if the dumb bastard does get some ambulance chaser, we can stick his statements up his ass later" chat.

MtG is 100% right. Don't say anything that could be beneficial to their case, because that is what they are looking for.

Don't give an inch

. These people should at least pay for your medical bills, and I'd also take a few day's pay, even though you had lots of sick leave, you had to use it because of them.

Gatekeeper · October 25, 2003, 18:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaak
no offfense gatekeeper, but you sound like you've never had stitches before. It isn't rolling over not to sue someone for something that insurance will take care of anyway. when I was about a year old, i got pretty much eaten by a dog. almost three hundred stitches later, the dog was dead, but there were no lawsuits. Too many lawsuits are immoral

I've had stitches before — I was five years old, and had 'em above my left eye. So I'm not completely unfamiliar with them by any means.

That said, I'm not the one who brought anything up about lawsuits. **shrug** It was just an angle brought up by others and we went from there. But I think MtG has pertinent points that shouldn't be glossed over — especially so in regards to signing release forms. Besides, if any legal action is taken, it will probably be my insurance company vs. their insurance company. I have no control over that.

As it stands now, I'm perfectly satisfied to heal up and be reimbursed for any up-front costs incurred. After all, I've got better things to do than ruin somebody else's life.

Gatekeeper

MichaeltheGreat · October 25, 2003, 18:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaak
Too many lawsuits are immoral

How is a suit either moral or immoral?

Zkribbler · October 25, 2003, 18:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
lawsuit time

don't be ridiculous.

You gotta prove two things: liablity & damages. Sure, you might be able to show they didn't keep the place tidy and so they're liable. But how much are you gonna collect??

A scar on your leg isn't worth much. Now, if you'd have ripped open your face or you ballsack, or you lose a leg to infection, then you're talking.

Gatekeeper · October 25, 2003, 19:10

Infection is my biggest fear right now, but the doc said that wasn't likely to happen as long as I change the bandages, apply anti-bacterial stuff and keep it dry. **shrug** So that's what I'm doing. About the only time the wound is going to get wet is when I shower, and I won't do that until tomorrow. Even then, it will be covered by bandages that will be replaced as soon as the shower is done.

Gatekeeper

pchang · October 25, 2003, 22:33

I find it very ironic that a vocal supporter for suing has a nick with Comrade in it. As for ER stories, I was in there because my wife was in a real bad way when they wheeled in a gangbanger with multiple gunshot wounds to the chest. After my wife was stabilized, I needed a walk. I saw the room where the gangbanger was. At an intellectual level, I know the average human body has 5 or 6 liters of blood in it, but it is quite another thing to see 5 or 6 liters of blood covering every square centimeter of an ER room.

Gatekeeper · October 26, 2003, 02:12

^^^Stuff like that makes you wonder how ER staff keep it together intellectually and emotionally.

Besides the woman I mentioned in the opening post to this thread, there were at least three screaming children — one no more than a newborn —*in the ER, along with several other adults. The doctor and nurses looked drained, to say the least, but were quite courteous and professional, if not always open to having conversations (a tactic I use frequently in an attempt to make a situation, no matter how chaotic, a bit more laid back).

Gatekeeper